Qatar in talks to take up to 20pc stake in Virgin

[jase05]

In no way was I endorsing the opinionated pro-QR and anti-Australia views in that article. I was just extracting the insider information that it happened to provide:

Most insiders are absolutely full of it.
One thing QR is very good at is keeping their cards very close to their chest.
There is absolutely zero chance any of these so called insiders would have any knowledge of QR’s plans

 

[drron]

I am confused with this talk of QR wanting PER-LHR and JNB-SYD. They already offer those services via DOH but also from those foreign countries but not just PER and SYD but also to ADL, MEL and BNE.
In early 2026 we have a cruise ending in Cape Town. I can tell you that unless we do some travel in Africa post cruise then CPT-DOH- BNE looks much better than the QF options.

As for JAL at the turn of the century we flew JAL BNE-NRT-JFK because it was quicker and in J half the price of QF.

 

[RSVKanga]

I am confused with this talk of QR wanting PER-LHR and JNB-SYD

Qatar Airways apparently want to fly PER-LHR and JNB-SYD as seventh-freedom, nonstop routes in collaboration with VA if/when they get that 20% stake. It's that simple.

The consequences of this plan to Australia's economic sovereignty, prosperity and national interest are outlined in the posts above.

 

[HS-TQE]

"Insiders" at Crikey is about as reliable as the "Insiders" at Executive Traveller/AusBT or the "reporters" at Simple Flying.

 

[RooFlyer]

Are you really playing that silly, obviously false card?

Credible evidence to back up your claim?

Well, according to the conventions of grammar, its a question, not a claim. And I think your next one rather answers the question (albeit the earlier usage was 'unlimited oil funds')

Qatar Airways is 100% owned by the non-capitalist dictatorship with an oil supply (and hence wealth) of about 400 years remaining.

Well, limited to 400 years, then; actually about 110 based on current reserves and production of crude, but who's counting? They have quite a bit of sand too, I tell you. I suggest you don't understand geological reserves Vs resources and that 'oils ain't oils' (Sol)? Crude, distillate, condensate and so on (canola, soybean sunflower ...). Which is it?

Qatar Airways apparently want to fly PER-LHR and JNB-SYD as seventh-freedom, nonstop routes in collaboration with VA if/when they get that 20% stake. It's that simple.

'Apparently want to fly' ... based on a Crikey reporter's second hand repeating of an 'insider' (who BTW doesn't mention 'seventh freedom' or 'non-stop'). Look, I have a bridge to sell you if you want it.

 

[RSVKanga]

Well, limited to 400 years, then;

400 years is basically unlimited. You know full well what I'm talking about. I'm not sure if being overthetop pedantic is doing you any favours.

Post automatically merged: Jun 28, 2024

"Insiders" at Crikey is about as reliable as the "Insiders" at Executive Traveller/AusBT or the "reporters" at Simple Flying.

Not an "insider at Crikey", rather someone from Qatar/VA that gave Michael Sainsbury the information. More likely to be credible as there were specific potential QR routes named (PER-LHR and SYD-JNB) as opposed to a more generic statement.

 

[jase05]

400 years is basically unlimited. You know full well what I'm talking about. I'm not sure if being overtly pedantic is doing you any favours.

Post automatically merged: Jun 28, 2024

Not an insider at Crikey, rather someone from Qatar/VA that gave Michael Sainsbury the information. More likely to be credible as there were specific potential QR routes named (PER-LHR and SYD-JNB) as opposed to a more generic statement.

QR won’t leak or discuss anything. Most likely just a VA employee entertaining some hypotheticals.
It’s a tiny 20% stake, QF have nothing to fear

 

[HS-TQE]

It's the same as the reports/posts from writers/contributors/forum posters that "VA will get widebodies" or "VA will be listed in 2023" from "insiders" (aka some random employee or contractor in VA) and taking that as gospel.

 

[TheInsider]

It's the same as the reports/posts from writers/contributors/forum posters that "VA will get widebodies" or "VA will be listed in 2023" from "insiders" (aka some random employee or contractor in VA) and taking that as gospel.

It's the TSV refueller!

 

[RooFlyer]

400 years is basically unlimited. You know full well what I'm talking about.

I honestly don't and I venture neither do you when it comes to 'oil' production you quote. Reserves? Resources? Model of production? Random figure plucked out of the air? I provided the correct approx figure based on its crude reserves and current production.

The country does not have unlimited 'oil' or revenue from oil or anything else related, so please stop carrying on with that demonstrable nonsense. Qatar is investing in airlines and other infrastructure worldwide in an endeavour to diversify its economy away from natural resources which may give a hint of its confidence in relying long term on its natural resources.

It happens to run it's airline particularly well. The airline is run on a commercial basis - else with its so-called "unlimited funds" it would buy up all the aircraft available and sell seats at 50% percent of everyone else and thereby run the global airline industry.

A foreign country investing in Australian aviation industry is a serious and important topic and frankly deserves a better argument about it's possible downside.

 

[seritonin]

Much rather an airline like with deep pockets like QR invest in VA than another VC firm who will slash and burn it even more treat employees like dirt. Yes, it didn't work last time with VA1.0 but that was one too many cooks in the kitchen.

I can see this as a long game for QR. Buy 20% stake, use their muscle to help VA renegotiate their fuel hedging so it can lower their costs. Drop prices for a few yesrs, great PR for the investment to Australian public. Then the government won't be able to refuse more slots. Better price and better service to more cities direct (CNS, NTL, CBR, HBA etc). This is the best way to compete with Project Sunrise.
VA will remain domestic and short haul international airlines. No good reasons to expand to long haul international.

 

[Ansett Nostalgic]

No need to get QR more slots when it can just put planes in VA livery and create new flights to DOH under the VA brand.

 

[justinbrett]

SQ have wanted to fly SYD LAX for decades. It has never happened.

These last few pages have been utter nonsense.

 

[RooFlyer]

SQ have wanted to fly SYD LAX for decades. It has never happened.

Would be helpful if you told us why.

 

[SYD]

Would be helpful if you told us why.

The Howard era Government denied a formal request from SQ for access to the Oz - US market in 2005. At that time, only QF, UA and HA were operating. There might actually be some legislation relating to that decision?

NZ had pulled out of non-stop SYD-LAX after the collapse of AN (which I’ve not understood why they didn’t restart after all this time - maybe not as lucrative as it once was?).

SQ tried again via investment in VA1.0 in ~2011. Didn’t get anywhere.

Since then, VA has gone but AA and DL entered over the years plus UA have redeployed capacity once used for China to Oz.

VA2.0 would be free to launch Oz - US / Canada / Mex / Central and Sth Am…(subject to any other approval at the other end).

 

[RooFlyer]

NZ had pulled out of non-stop SYD-LAX after the collapse of AN

Never knew about that one! We, as flying consumers, can only wish for more of those types of options!

 

[HS-TQE]

The Howard era Government denied a formal request from SQ for access to the Oz - US market in 2005. At that time, only QF, UA and HA were operating. There might actually be some legalisation relating to that decision.

US DoT (under the Bush adninistration) from memory also blocked SQ's request on their end. Supposedly to protect the sole airline (UA) on the US West Coast to SYD/MEL at the time and we're encouraging the likes of DL and AA to enter the market instead.

 

[dajop]

These last few pages have been utter nonsense.

My favourite was QR wanting to fly PER-LHR.

We can assume QR would never get rights to do that on their own metal, it would need to be VA operated service.

However if QR wanted to do that, and had sufficient influence with say 25% ownership of an airline they could do so already by influencing BA to operate on the route.

Whilst no doubt we can’t completely discount the idea of QR attempting to use VA as a vessel to generate additional traffic between Australia and its DOH hub, the routes that don’t touch the hub seem rather fanciful.

 

[RSVKanga]

It’s important to note that SQ’s bizarre request for SYD-LAX was just SQ acting alone, so they needed government approval and were unsuccessful.

However QR might not need government approval to fly PER-LHR and SYD-JNB nonstop if they do buy 20% of VA. And that’s why it’s a dangerous scenario. There is nothing stopping them from wet leasing/donating a few 787s and A350s to VA, meaning it will be a VA flight on paper but in reality it’s a QR flight with no sign of VA on board, and QR will earn decent $ from not just the lease but the routes. It’s quite the threat to Qantas and hence Australia’s national interest.

They’re already experimenting with this by adding their QR code to VA’s CNS-HND service from July 4. QR has no role in the Australia-Japan market and should ideally back off.

Again I do make the point that this information is more likely to be credible as there were two specific future routes named (PER-LHR and SYD-JNB) rather than a generic statement like “Qatar Airways may seek to collaborate with Virgin Australia to launch seventh-freedom international flights from Australia”

 

[PERLHR]

However if QR wanted to do that, and had sufficient influence with say 25% ownership of an airline they could do so already by influencing BA to operate on the route.

I didn't think BA had any interest whatsoever to fly from Perth. If they did, they would not need QR to "influence them,".