QF-EK broken promises

[Rebekkap]

yes I do: it is not haram. Most of us also eat food that would be considered Kosher every day and food that is considered vegetarian, vegan gluten-free etc etc but do not talk about not eating vegetarian etc when we eat a salad. By common usage halal is typically to mean meat from animals slaughtered in what many consider to be a cruel way. I choose not to do so and this is what i mean by not eating halal and what restaurants mean when they say that the food is halal (along with no pork, alcohol etc).

Halal (and kosher) meat in Australia is generally slaughtered humanely, after being stunned, same as any other meat - What is Halal slaughter in Australia? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase

"The main concern with halal slaughter is whether or not pre-slaughter stunning is used. In Australia, the national standard for meat production requires that all animals must be effectively stunned (unconscious) prior to slaughter. The vast majority of halal slaughter in Australia (including at export abattoirs) complies with this standard, that is, all animals are stunned prior to slaughter. The only difference is that a reversible stunning method is used, while conventional humane slaughter may use an irreversible stunning method. The time to regain consciousness following a reversible stun may vary depending on the intensity of the stun. At Australian abattoirs, the aim is to ensure that reversible stunning is done in a way that depth of unconsciousness is sufficient to allow for the animal to bleed out and die before there is a chance of regaining consciousness. "

 

[tofidog]

Its not qantas' fault your friends are anti-arab...

Sad they are missing out on a pretty lovely place to transit.

Katiebell's original list didn't suggest to me an anti-Arab sentiment rather an objection to the removal of choice for a significant number of QANTAS passengers when other choices are still available as well as the option to request special meals still available - although a request for bacon would be rejected and that is the point (whether one likes bacon or not). As to the assumption of an anti-Arab sentiment with regards to her friends, there are other reasons why some are reluctant to travel that route. For those that hold the sentiment you presume there are, as you say, other options even if it means they don't support a supposedly local business.

 

[medhead]

AFAIK Qantas have never offered the ability to specifically request bacon or pork.

The fact is that passengers only have the ability to choose from the meal options that the airline provides on their particular flight. There was never a guarantee that bacon/pork would be available on all flights pre EK/QF partnership. There is still no guarantee post partnership with respect to getting pork/bacon on a specific flight. As such there is no broken promise on the meals. Didn't have the choice before and you still don't have a choice.

 

[Rebekkap]

AFAIK Qantas have never offered the ability to specifically request bacon or pork.

The fact is that passengers only have the ability to choose from the meal options that the airline provides on their particular flight. There was never a guarantee that bacon/pork would be available on all flights pre EK/QF partnership. There is still no guarantee post partnership with respect to getting pork/bacon on a specific flight. As such there is no broken promise on the meals. Didn't have the choice before and you still don't have a choice.

And really, I LOVE bacon, but there are often periods of 24 and even 48 hours together when I don't eat it. There are much more important options on a flight - the seat, the service, the entertainment and the champagne all spring to mind.

 

[medhead]

And really, I LOVE bacon, but there are often periods of 24 and even 48 hours together when I don't eat it. There are much more important options on a flight - the seat, the service, the entertainment and the champagne all spring to mind.

I'm not even sure when I last ate bacon. We had pork roast a couple of weeks ago, Eggs benedict with ham last weekend. but bacon...don't know.

 

[dfcatch]

Why I bother is beyond me... however...

1/ Medhead - alcohol is halal for Penegal also - I think you know this;

2/ Enough with the fanbois bullsh$t around here eh.....

Some of you love EK (or QF or Pauline Hanson for that matter) like it's the proverbial best-thing-since-sliced-bread.

You having wet dreams over EK doesn't invalidate someone else's dislike of the same airline (or whatever the issue is).


3/ Back to the OP.....

Here's where I'll support you - you are perfectly entitled to not like EK or whoever, and for whatever reasons - however you have stated some specific "broken promises" issues, and as someone who strongly believes in customer service and the importance of brand promises - let's take a look at these:

1 55% decrease in checked baggage allowance: was 4 x 32 kg, now 60 kg (J & WP)
2 loss of common-rated destinations when travelling via LHR (yes I know some do not like LHR but I need to stop in London so this is real downside to me)
3 loss of BA JSA
4 no premium economy on EK
5 loss of QFi metal from PER, ADL, BNE etc
6 loss of stopover in HKG, SIN, BKK w onward flights direct to Europe using QFi or QF codeshare
7 massive loss of SC & FF points when flying partner airlines (& loss of codeshare on these flights)
(some might argue that 6 & & 7 are not EK-QF partnership issues but the loss of the BA JSA, the CX codeshare etc followed on from this)
8 no pork (e.g. bacon) on QF1, 2, 9, 10 (a cooked breakfast without bacon???)
9 no alcohol in the food (so how can it be called a trifle?)
10 progressive winding back of QFF earning on EK flights
11 increase in prices (there were some great deals immediately after the tie up but these are just a distant memory)
12 CD: great if flying Aus-LHR but we were promised progressive roll out on all long haul routes.
13 loss of QFi to FRA


1 - Nobody likes a decrease in baggage allowance - however, in the last 17 years or so, I've lost track of how many times QF chops and changes its baggage allowances. IIRC - a few years ago - the allowance (even under the BA JSA) wasn't that generous. It was only the USA that was particularly generous due to the piece system. Since then, it has increased, and decreased, much like my blood pressure when JQ flights appear on my search screen...

2 - I'm not really sure what you mean here..??..?? I assume you mean that you used to like flying to LHR, having a free stopover and then flying to Europe somewhere..?? And now - you don't get a free LHR stopover?? Is that the issue? Either way - I'm not sure that this is a broken promise, in any further way than the flights stop in DXB rather than SIN...

3 - And now there is an EK JSA. Is your comment an academic research finding? Because I don't think AJ, in announcing the EK JSA, ever promised that the BA JSA would continue..??

4 - Fair enough - But many folks didn't care for World Traveller Plus either.... Personally I find PE a waste of space.... not worth the price premium for the little extra it delivers, but that's just MHO...

5 - No one likes being ignored - try being Jetstarised (seriously - probably would have happened regardless of EK tie-up)

6 - Rationalisation of the network was likely even if the BA JSA and SIN stop had continued. Personally - I like BA more than EK, and I liked SIN instead of DXB. But that's just MHO and I'm free to fly QF to LHR (as I've done), or choose to fly BA or others if I wish to avoid DXB.

7 - Simpler and Fairer has nothing to do with the EK JSA. You are correct in that regard. You're conflating general QF issues (route enhancements, simpler & fairer etc) with the EK related tie-up. We may as well include JQ being given the 787s first and 'small plates' on your list of grievances.

8 - Are you F$%^##^ serious??!! Are you just trying to get a rise out of people?? If you can't have an airplane breakfast without bacon - you've got issues.... And you should probably go and see your cardiologist. I hate to break it to you - but MANY airline breakfasts don't have bacon, or pork, or deep fried hash browns, or fruit loops, or Nutella-infused Belgian waffles (dammit, now you've made me hungry). I actually get really upset when QF doesn't serve In-N-Out onboard.

By all means - complain about the food choices - especially all the pony-tailed-inspired-new-age-cough that barely passes as a meal - but supposedly kale is a food group

But I don't think this is a legitimate gripe at all. The UA flight I just took the other day had sausages and pancakes for breakfast or a cold muesli thingy. For the record, the sausage was apparently 'chicken' (you know what else 'tastes-like-chicken'...)


9 - Airlines actually serve alcohol-infused trifle?? Seriously?? I thought that was just my grandmother.... Please let me know which airlines do this?


10 - THIS!! THIS is a totally legitimate issue - earning, lounge access etc are definitely legitimate issues to highlight as benefit reductions that have occurred post-alliance. I'm with you on this.


11 - Welcome to the world of airline economics...... If people don't fly them - their prices will drop..... Or they'll downgauge fleet capacity to compensate Hardly a broken promise....


12 - Yes - another legitimate gripe, and benefit windback. I'm with you on this...


13 - See earlier point on route rationalisation.


OVERALL - You've conflated way too many issues/preferences into your list of "broken promises" - there really are only a few on your list that qualify as broken promises or benefit "enhancements" and by all means - shout those from the rooftops.

I think some of your other issues are plain ridiculous, and demean the bigger point you were trying to make.

And I'm no EK fanboi - in fact I don't like any of the sandbox airlines.

Most folks here have a Do Not Fly list... I don't.

I have a Fly List - and it's a fairly small list.

We each have our reasons to fly or not fly various airlines - which could include catering preferences, safety record and culture, nationalism, price, cabin comfort/décor, lavatory cleanliness, fellow-pax-cleanliness, and of course aircraft selection, amongst other reasons.

I support everyone's choices as to who they like or dislike.

And I'm a big opponent of enhancements - and generally not a fan of the EK JSA.

But I find it very difficult to support your arguments in this thread.

I would suggest revisiting your OP - taking out the BS, and reposting with only the REAL reductions in concrete published benefits that have occurred since the switchover.

And although I prefer SIN as a stop rather than DXB - I don't think that issue qualifies for the list.

 

[zoomzoom]

This so called alliance is a dud for me........I prefer/need to fly via Asia. The result is I have now experienced the fantastic service and product of Asian carriers. And anyway the EK product is far superior to QF anyway, if you fly via the ME why not just fly EK ?
QF has lost me, old planes, few destinations, no BA links etc.........

 

[siri]

Last two travel to Europe via Dubai with QF and EM was not that good experience even though I love Dubai lounge and food. One thing I hate is, the moment you are out of the plane and before transit you have to go through this hideous security barrier which I have not seen anywhere. After flying long haul who want to go thorough a security barrier for next flight. Why have this for transit?
Also Dubai is the most expensive duty free place as well.
I have no interest to go out and play with camel jokeys since it won't be fun and having to look over your shoulder when you are out side is no fun either.
Take any transit places like Spore, HK, BK and they are beautiful cities to go out and have fun.
I do not use middle east links any more and my two daughters from UK stopped using them as well. Now Qantas lost 3 passengers that travel on first or Bus class.
I have a two floor apartment behind Harrods in London and one floor apartment is owned by a Emirate Royal family. In 70's I used to take wife of the crown prince shopping in London and her small son as well. In summer I used to go to Scottish distilleries and arrange whiskey shipping to these royal families but boxes are label as bottle water... I can go on re. so many details about these people wealth and how where they hide them in UK. My late brother's accountancy firm in UK used to handle this hidden wealth and he ask me to help with the whiskey and other matters since I was a student those days.
To me double standards of these arabic rulers are breath taking. One positive is all seriously sick patience from Emirate were funded to come to Harley Street .It was a good gesture from the rulers.
Also like to add that, Emirate always look after you in their cabins and got very expensive french wines as well. Myself and my daughters problem is Dubai airport and the place which we do not enjoy as a stop over or transit.

 

[eminere]

OVERALL - You've conflated way too many issues/preferences into your list of "broken promises" - there really are only a few on your list that qualify as broken promises or benefit "enhancements" and by all means - shout those from the rooftops.

I think some of your other issues are plain ridiculous, and demean the bigger point you were trying to make.

And I'm no EK fanboi - in fact I don't like any of the sandbox airlines.

Most folks here have a Do Not Fly list... I don't.

I have a Fly List - and it's a fairly small list.

We each have our reasons to fly or not fly various airlines - which could include catering preferences, safety record and culture, nationalism, price, cabin comfort/décor, lavatory cleanliness, fellow-pax-cleanliness, and of course aircraft selection, amongst other reasons.

I support everyone's choices as to who they like or dislike.

And I'm a big opponent of enhancements - and generally not a fan of the EK JSA.

But I find it very difficult to support your arguments in this thread.

I would suggest revisiting your OP - taking out the BS, and reposting with only the REAL reductions in concrete published benefits that have occurred since the switchover.

And although I prefer SIN as a stop rather than DXB - I don't think that issue qualifies for the list.

Finally. Thank you for calling it like it is.

 

[Coverpoint]

It is unfortunately the case that the previously valued Qantas -Europe service out of Adelaide has now vanished. It is not even possible to take QF10 back via Melbourne because there is no connecting flight until the next morning to Adelaide. Using Emirates as a substitute ex ADEL provides little value for QFF. Increasingly Qatar and Cathay are going to eat into the European route and I'm sad to say, Qantas doesn't care.

 

[junbugging]

This so called alliance is a dud for me........

(...)
And anyway the EK product is far superior to QF anyway

Yes, QF's alliance partner does offer a nice product.

 

[medhead]

Why I bother is beyond me... however...

1/ Medhead - alcohol is halal for Penegal also - I think you know this;

2/ Enough with the fanbois bullsh$t around here eh.....

Some of you love EK (or QF or Pauline Hanson for that matter) like it's the proverbial best-thing-since-sliced-bread.

You having wet dreams over EK doesn't invalidate someone else's dislike of the same airline (or whatever the issue is).


3/ Back to the OP.....


8 - Are you F$%^##^ serious??!! Are you just trying to get a rise out of people?? If you can't have an airplane breakfast without bacon - you've got issues.... And you should probably go and see your cardiologist. I hate to break it to you - but MANY airline breakfasts don't have bacon, or pork, or deep fried hash browns, or fruit loops, or Nutella-infused Belgian waffles (dammit, now you've made me hungry). I actually get really upset when QF doesn't serve In-N-Out onboard.

By all means - complain about the food choices - especially all the pony-tailed-inspired-new-age-cough that barely passes as a meal - but supposedly kale is a food group

But I don't think this is a legitimate gripe at all. The UA flight I just took the other day had sausages and pancakes for breakfast or a cold muesli thingy. For the record, the sausage was apparently 'chicken' (you know what else 'tastes-like-chicken'...)

1/ I don't dare speak for other people's religious choices.

2/ Are you over inflating my feelings for EK? I reserve that sort of thing for a very small list of people who I went to school with, and that one person doing a business degree during first year at uni.

3.1/ Personally I've heard soup of a Giant tortoise from Galapogos island, cooked in shell, is wonderful. Why don't airlines give me that choice?
3.2/ Snake?

 

[tofidog]

Sorry katiebell, that is not what Halal means, Halal means it is permissable for a muslim to eat. You are using it in the incorrect way.

I don't see how it is OT when it was you yourself who made a list of broken promises to start the thread off, one of them was your horror at the lack of pork on QF1/2/9/10 (other QF flights are free to serve pork).

While you are right, halal is not restricted just to eating only meat that is killed in a particular way and not eating pork products it is a significant element that differentiates what non Muslim and Muslim people eat. The disquiet arising from the situation of having no choice to eat pork when flying on QANTAS metal seems reasonable. Understandable that it is not available on Middle Eastern airlines. Muslims flying on QANTAS would and always have, had several other choices available so there seems to be a bit of a bias...just sayin'.

 

[medhead]

While you are right, halal is not restricted just to eating only meat that is killed in a particular way and not eating pork products it is a significant element that differentiates what non Muslim and Muslim people eat. The disquiet arising from the situation of having no choice to eat pork when flying on QANTAS metal seems reasonable. Understandable that it is not available on Middle Eastern airlines. Muslims flying on QANTAS would and always have, had several other choices available so there seems to be a bit of a bias...just sayin'.

See I take all these demands for pork to be similar to the protests about halal labelled food. I think that the people raising these issues think that not eating pork, or eating something with a halal label will turn them into muslims. that's not reasonable.
I've been on plenty of Qantas flights before the EK partnership that did not have pork on the menu. Demanding pork now is not reasonable, given that pork may not have been available previously.
I'd certainly welcome something to support the idea that pork, dog, cat, monkey, shellfish, falcons form a signficant part of anyone's diet.

 

[Conrad_S]

2/ Enough with the fanbois bullsh$t around here eh......

Is that some sort of fancy pokemon?

 

[Pushka]

Thats curious Siri. The OP is bemoaning lack of security - you say too extreme.

The use of fanboi +expletive is annoying and unnecessary for those who are providing their OWN experiences on EK rather than those who are reporting 'my friends say'.

Geez medhead, I'd vomit with some of those food choices.

 

[dfcatch]

The use of fanboi +expletive is annoying and unnecessary for those who are providing their OWN experiences on EK rather than those who are reporting 'my friends say'.

.

I stand by my comment Pushka (although I never said it was directed at you).

I'm sure you would agree that there is way to much "fanboi-ism" that goes on across many many threads on AFF where too many people "won't hear a bad word about EK/QF/VA/JQ/Fred Perry/the 77W" or whatever their fanboi-link is - and who simply attack OPs for even daring to suggest that their favourite airline/seat/person/thing might not be everyone's cup of tea.

There's certainly plenty of that behaviour in this thread - that's why I called it out.

The OP has plenty of material to be critiqued on - but they are 100% entitled to not like EK for whatever reasons they choose.

 

[kelvedon]

Geez medhead, I'd vomit with some of those food choices.

The mans's salivating over Giant tortoise too!

 

[Pushka]

I think that the fanboi mentality only works when the same poster only says good things in the face of evidence that is in the contrary. I say evidence rather than opinion. Of course OP is entitled to say she doesnt like EK but that does NOT equate with failure of the promise.

I just think that with a couple of exceptions (that dont bother me - I travel minimal luggage, only consume bacon as a treat, and think PE is an expensive ticket) that EK has lived up to the deal. And living in Adelaide with sucky Qantas international I really have been impacted.

Me? I wasnt thinking you were pointing the finger at anyone specifically but had waved a general wand at those commenting that EK was above reproach . I criticised EK heavily in a TR on a J flight from Sydney - BKK. And expensive flight that was poorly serviced. But overall am really happy with them.

 

[siri]

Thats curious Siri. The OP is bemoaning lack of security - you say too extreme.

@Pushka, Sorry I don't follow you, care to be more elaborate ?
Re. Airline, so many of them are going bad to worse, but you have to give them credit if they deserve it.. Re. transit points, it is so important due to time and emergency and the fun part of the transit point.
I am not sure about your comment about security, it is not lack of security that is a issue, it is the religious police that is a issue.