QF International via Darwin

[Lynda2475]

Pre-covid QF2 was a single flight number comprising 2 international segments LHR-SIN and SIN-SYD. It was possible to book the segments separately because there was reasonable demand for SIN stop-overs and also for transferring passengers to SIN-MEL and SIN-BNE flights.

QF are planning to resume using an A380 on QF1/2 from July. They were going to do this from April, but because they cant currently support easy transits via SIN, they are using DRW and it can not support A380s. So the downgrade in this instance has naught to do with chasing yield on smaller aircraft and everything to do with covid disruptions right now.

Demand for AU to SIN is lower because of the onerous covid testing regime needed to visit Singapore. But demand for Aus to UK and back for the upcoming EU summer is quite high. So given capacity on QF2 is lower (especially in premium cabins, as no First Class and fewer business class seats on Dreamliner vs A380), they dont see any need to sell the domestic DRW to SYD leg separately. If there were heaps of unsold premium seats you can bet they would allow it.

In addition there are benefits to being on a single flight number if there are disruptions, it means you dont need worry about missing the SIN-SYD segment if the LHR-SIN is late because you are on the same plane.

My post was about why they are still selling domestic segment on QF10 but not on QF2 you are free to disagree with my assessment. I made no comment on the cost benefits or penalties of flying on 1 vs 2 flight numbers.

 

[OATEK]

That's only partially correct. I have flown QF9 and QF10 multiple times on the A380, the last of which was my last international trip before the pandemic with upgrades to first class both ways. QF9 and QF10 flew on the A380 via DXB in the final years it was using the A380. It did switch permanently to the Dreamliner when it switched to going via Perth, but it did use the A380 and the 747 before that.

Back when the A380 was used for QF9 and QF10 some SYD based fliers chose to fly on it because they preferred the timings, perceived a higher chance of an upgrade or to get additional SCs for a more indirect route.

Even when the PER flights started QF still flew a separate A380 to SIN from MEL (although there was a several hour gap after that before the onwards flight to LHR on QF2) as well as an A330 flight (that was timed better to link up with QF2), so there was still the opportunity to fly the A380 to LHR from MEL without going via SYD.

Agree, the QF9/10 flights prior to via Perth, used a variety of aircraft.

On QF metal only by booking 2 separate flight numbers - the discussion was about QF2 vs QF10 both flights which have 2 legs on a single flight number on a single plane.

QF10 LHR to MEL via PER has been on a Dreamliner since 2018, the previous DXB routing is irrelevant as QF no longer fly to DXB and have not done for a few years. If you want to fly an A380 LHR to MEL via DXB you need to fly EK.

Firstly you said "Whereas QF10 was always on the smaller Dreamliner even when operating via Perth", and when called out on that inaccurate statement then say that earlier routings with larger aircraft are "irrelevant". Couldn't you just agree that QF10 has not always been on the smaller dreamliner, as that has only been since 2018.

Many on here have been flying these routes since the early days of 747s, and just feel that making claims that are not factually correct can mar what might be a perfectly valid statement about the long standing inequity of QFi flights that cover two legs and do not recognise them as separate flights for status etc purposes. I well remember switching from QF6 to QF32 and how that produced 2 flights for status purposes than for QF32 from LHR right through.

 

[Lynda2475]

Couldn't you just agree that QF10 has not always been on the smaller dreamliner, as that has only been since 2018.

And couldn't you just accept i was talking the operation of these specific flights pre and post covid? The intent was clear but you are choosing to pick at one word. so to make you happy I will restate it as "Whereas QF10 was already on the smaller Dreamliner even when operating via Perth".

Reminiscing about routes that QF no longer flies is nice but totally irrelevant to this thread which is about flights currently transiting DRW that would normally go via PER or SIN. Those flights QF1/2 would be on A380 if not for needing to use DRW and QF9/10 would be on a Dreamliner as a fully loaded A380 cant fly the LHR-PER leg.

Of course flight numbers have been recycled over the last 100 years and aircraft and routing stops have changed however none of that is pertinent to the this specific thread nor the question I was responding to which is why QF have chosen not to sell the domestic leg of QF1 and QF2.

might be a perfectly valid statement about the long standing inequity of QFi flights that cover two legs and do not recognise them as separate flights for status etc purposes

I agree this has been a problem but wasn't what was being discussed, and is in no way unique to flights via DRW.

 

[OATEK]

And couldn't you just accept i was talking the operation of these specific flights pre and post covid? The intent was clear but you are choosing to pick at one word. so to make you happy To make you happy I will restate it as "Whereas QF10 was already on the smaller Dreamliner even when operating via Perth".

Thank you.

 

[jrfsp]

Perth Airport and Qantas claim victory over charges - Airline Ratings

In a landmark decision in the long-running and complex battle over airport charges and asset valuations between Qantas and Perth Airport in the WA Supreme Court, his Honour Justice Rene le Miere has found broadly in favor of Perth Airport although Qantas is also claiming a victory. Justice le...

www.airlineratings.com

I wonder if this will have any bearing on things

 

[mviy]

Perth Airport and Qantas claim victory over charges - Airline Ratings

In a landmark decision in the long-running and complex battle over airport charges and asset valuations between Qantas and Perth Airport in the WA Supreme Court, his Honour Justice Rene le Miere has found broadly in favor of Perth Airport although Qantas is also claiming a victory. Justice le...

www.airlineratings.com

I wonder if this will have any bearing on things

QF was getting very high yields on the PER-LHR flights before the pandemic so I think QF will be keen to announce moving the flights back as soon as they are reasonably confident that the WA borders will remain open with a contingency plan to shift flights back to DRW.

 

[Stanley Lambchop]

Does anyone know why the current QF2 is a morning departure from LHR? Is it a curfew thing about landing into DRW or an operational / fleet utilisation issue? When switching to routing via SIN it was scheduled to revert to its traditional night departure/early morning SYD arrival.

Just wondering with the DRW transit being extended whether the current departure times will be maintained? While I'm happy to transit via DRW, the evening departure from LHR would suit me a lot better.

 

[mviy]

Does anyone know why the current QF2 is a morning departure from LHR? Is it a curfew thing about landing into DRW or an operational / fleet utilisation issue? When switching to routing via SIN it was scheduled to revert to its traditional night departure/early morning SYD arrival.

Just wondering with the DRW transit being extended whether the current departure times will be maintained? While I'm happy to transit via DRW, the evening departure from LHR would suit me a lot better.

I don't think DRW has a curfew, however both LHR and SYD do which limits the timings that will work for QF.

Edit: come to think of it though having a single plane arrive in the middle of the night in DRW wouldn't make a lot of operational sense for QF.

 

[OATEK]

Does anyone know why the current QF2 is a morning departure from LHR? Is it a curfew thing about landing into DRW or an operational / fleet utilisation issue? When switching to routing via SIN it was scheduled to revert to its traditional night departure/early morning SYD arrival.

Just wondering with the DRW transit being extended whether the current departure times will be maintained? While I'm happy to transit via DRW, the evening departure from LHR would suit me a lot better.

I think it all changes with Daylight Savings (3/4 in AU), preceded by the UK change on 27/3. So a 2 hr swing that sees our QF2 flight on 6/4 departing at 21:10 for SYD arrival at 5am (+2).

 

[jrfsp]

I wonder if QF will move back to via PER from 27 March now

 

[jase05]

I wonder if QF will move back to via PER from 27 March now

Hope not.
Punish them a bit longer

 

[oz_mark]

I wonder if QF will move back to via PER from 27 March now

Doubt it, they would have made commitments in Darwin for the time period..

 

[Mattg]

Does anyone know why the current QF2 is a morning departure from LHR? Is it a curfew thing about landing into DRW or an operational / fleet utilisation issue? When switching to routing via SIN it was scheduled to revert to its traditional night departure/early morning SYD arrival.

Just wondering with the DRW transit being extended whether the current departure times will be maintained? While I'm happy to transit via DRW, the evening departure from LHR would suit me a lot better.

The retiming of QF2 to a morning departure out of LHR was originally for aircraft utilisation. By retiming this and the SYD-LAX service (from a morning to an evening departure in the case of QF11), Qantas would be able to service the SYD-LHR and SYD-LAX routes daily with only 4 Dreamliners instead of 5.

For a time, Qantas simply didn't have enough planes in service so it kind of had to do this (see The Qantas International Schedule Doesn't Add Up)

This is less of an issue now that SYD-LAX is an A380 service all but one day per week.

If Qantas did retime QF2 to depart London in the evening, the DRW-SYD leg would become a redeye. This wouldn't really be an issue as Qantas already has domestic flights arriving and leaving Darwin in the middle of the night.

 

[cmon0005]

I wonder if QF will move back to via PER from 27 March now

I doubt it, I reckon with McGowan's famous 'backflips' any sensible business would wait for a period of time to observe before committing.

 

[jrfsp]

I doubt it, I reckon with McGowan's famous 'backflips' any sensible business would wait for a period of time to observe before committing.

Realistically the revenue is there for the taking. There are lots of people waiting for that border to open. You can bet SQ, EK, QR will be champing at the bit to open reservations. Snooze you lose with border openings.

 

[cmon0005]

Realistically the revenue is there for the taking. There are lots of people waiting for that border to open. You can bet SQ, EK, QR will be champing at the bit to open reservations. Snooze you lose with border openings.

I guess from QF's perspective it's a lot more a case of once bitten twice shy as the saying goes.
They would have lost a lot from previous back flips, running planes between east coast almost empty.
Also 'supposedly' WA people were so supportive of the hard border, so it would be a hypocritical of them to travel interstate or overseas.

 

[Zanzara]

Bigger target market in PER for non-stops to LHR than DRW may influence their decision?

 

[Daver6]

Hope not.
Punish them a bit longer

QF are in the business of making money rather than being vindictive. There is revenue to be had. If QF delay, people will just fly other airlines for the most part.

 

[jase05]

QF are in the business of making money rather than being vindictive. There is revenue to be had. If QF delay, people will just fly other airlines for the most part.

I’d fly any other airline TO avoid PER

 

[jrfsp]

Hope not.
Punish them a bit longer

I dont think QFs corporate behaviour over the course of the pandemic leaves it on any moral high ground