QF International via Darwin

[jrfsp]

For flyers from the east coast I never quite understood the appeal of Perth as a stopover, unless you wanted to avoid transiting another country? DRW actually seems favourable to PER in terms of time/distance but the schedule is not much fun - QF1 lands at LHR around 4:30am (and Qantas no longer provides arrivals lounge or chauffeur drive).

I’d still choose SIN or DXB if I had the option. Going via PER doesn’t really save you any time… the route via SIN or even Japan is actually a shorter distance.

If youre in SYD / MEL id choose SIN everytime as least pre covid.

I guess for QF though, PER allows for significantly more 1 stop connections than SIN and in some ways trying to compete with SQ and the like with the hub model.

 

[scaredeycat]

My daughters recently flew QF1 back to the UK. Left Sydney at 5pm and were back in their flat in London just after 5am. They were pretty happy with that. Cleared Customs in record time and there was no traffic. Not sure that it would work if you didn't have your own accommodation in London and had to wait until 2pm to check into a hotel, however.

 

[Daver6]

Can someone explain why we're still talking about Quarantine in 2022 with the vaccines, treatments and protection available? What risk is there to the Western Australian community of someone transiting at PER? Who does it harm? Whilst WA residents may be supported these measures, you do have to worry about those who work and make a living at PER, and all the businesses with ties to T&T. How much longer can hotels in Perth remain shuttered?

-RooFlyer88

The risk is a transiting passenger infects someone working at the airport who then brings into the local community.

Which hotels in Perth are closed? Some are closed to booking as they're being used as quarantine hotels. Others seem to be doing a roaring trade with locals who can't go anywhere.

For the record, I'm fuming that the WA borders aren't opening on 5th Feb.

 

[Eastwick20]

If youre in SYD / MEL id choose SIN everytime as least pre covid.

I guess for QF though, PER allows for significantly more 1 stop connections than SIN and in some ways trying to compete with SQ and the like with the hub model.

Yes totally!

Mentally the thought that 5 hours into the trip you still haven't even left Australia and
have a massive 17 hour sector ahead of you is enough to put the fear of god into me

SIN for the leg stretch and the fact that its a beautiful airport and a calming oasis and destination in itself on the way to and from LHR

 

[MEL_Traveller]

For flyers from the east coast I never quite understood the appeal of Perth as a stopover, unless you wanted to avoid transiting another country? DRW actually seems favourable to PER in terms of time/distance but the schedule is not much fun - QF1 lands at LHR around 4:30am (and Qantas no longer provides arrivals lounge or chauffeur drive).

I’d still choose SIN or DXB if I had the option. Going via PER doesn’t really save you any time… the route via SIN or even Japan is actually a shorter distance.

The only appeal for me via PER is that you can eat and drink on the short flights and maximise sleep on the long sectors. Going via SIN the flight times are so short in and out of Australia that its hard to have a meal and a good sleep. (Via the middle east isn't so bad as the long sectors are out and in to Australia.)

Never understood the appeal of arriving in the UK before 6am as a tourist. I suppose if you had to get home and go straight to the office it might be ok? Otherwise you're left hanging around London until check-in for your hotel (some of those are now 3pm with covid cleaning requirements), or paying for the night before.

 

[kookaburra75]

For flyers from the east coast I never quite understood the appeal of Perth as a stopover, unless you wanted to avoid transiting another country? DRW actually seems favourable to PER in terms of time/distance but the schedule is not much fun - QF1 lands at LHR around 4:30am (and Qantas no longer provides arrivals lounge or chauffeur drive).

I’d still choose SIN or DXB if I had the option. Going via PER doesn’t really save you any time… the route via SIN or even Japan is actually a shorter distance.

The only appeal for me via PER is that you can eat and drink on the short flights and maximise sleep on the long sectors. Going via SIN the flight times are so short in and out of Australia that its hard to have a meal and a good sleep. (Via the middle east isn't so bad as the long sectors are out and in to Australia.)

Never understood the appeal of arriving in the UK before 6am as a tourist. I suppose if you had to get home and go straight to the office it might be ok? Otherwise you're left hanging around London until check-in for your hotel (some of those are now 3pm with covid cleaning requirements), or paying for the night before.

I agree - I much preferred the old QF9 out of Melbourne, where it left at midnight and I arrived into LHR at 2pm. I could get a full days work done, and then on arrival, only have to survive for a short while before falling asleep. It did help that the first leg, was the long one and I could get some sleep, as it was so late to start with.

As I travelled in economy (unless I could get an upgrade to Bus on points), I could survive 14 hours in the A380 in economy, but I was never go to try 17 hours in economy in the 787 via Perth, and arrive at 6am too.

 

[henrus]

The risk is a transiting passenger infects someone working at the airport who then brings into the local community.

To be fair the NT also had this risk for a period of time, Qantas flights to/from the UK started well before the NT opened up to international travel. They have policies in place such as all staff working in the international area/lounge had to be regularly tested, vaccinated and wear N95 masks at all times.

There is nothing stopping WA from adopting the same approach.

 

[OATEK]

The only appeal for me via PER is that you can eat and drink on the short flights and maximise sleep on the long sectors. Going via SIN the flight times are so short in and out of Australia that its hard to have a meal and a good sleep. (Via the middle east isn't so bad as the long sectors are out and in to Australia.)

Never understood the appeal of arriving in the UK before 6am as a tourist. I suppose if you had to get home and go straight to the office it might be ok? Otherwise you're left hanging around London until check-in for your hotel (some of those are now 3pm with covid cleaning requirements), or paying for the night before.

Personally I have not found via the Middle East any more or less comfortable for sleep than via Asia. But even with lie flat beds and mood lighting etc. I think we are all likely to be different so can only talk from my own perspective. I feel the a 17hr leg, if unable to get a decent sleep, will be hard to endure, but am prepared to give it a go. At least we know we can go straight to my daughter's home off the plane after arriving at LHR, so no hotel issues.

In many ways we have preferred to have 3 leg journey (eg SYD-HKG-HEL-LHR) because getting on/off at transit stops is welcome. Again YMMV.

 

[Mr H]

In many ways we have preferred to have 3 leg journey (eg SYD-HKG-HEL-LHR) because getting on/off at transit stops is welcome. Again YMMV.

I would not transit through Finland. I went to an airport there once and it was HEL.

 

[SYD]

I would not transit through Finland. I went to an airport there once and it was HEL.

It’s one of the easier Euro transits - especially in winter. HEL can freeze over but they still fly!

 

[Lynda2475]

Outside of covid (currently there is the benefit of not transiting a 3rd country), there is no appeal for me in going via PER on the way to the UK (SIN is my preference outbound), but I did find it beneficial for return journey when i last did it in 2018.

If you fly LHR-SIN-SYD you arrive in the very early hours of the morning and then have to stay awake another 16-17 hours to get back on the right timeszone. Might be fine if you have had J seats and slept well on the flight, but in Y its near impossible to get any sleep so it is a struggle.

Whereas if you fly LHR-PER-SYD, its a nice early afternoon departure (so you can take the tube outside of peak hour), then when you land in PER clearing immigration is super quick (as its only for those not connecting to MEL) and you can take a shower in the lounge to feel human again. Then land late evening in SYD meanining you can go home and straight to bed waking up the next morning without jet lag as you have slept in the right timezone.

From a leisure traveller pov I wish QF would change the timing of QF1 and QF2, it would be nice to land in LHR later, so one can go straight to hotel instead of having to drop luggage and then find somewhere to hang around until you can shower (not all of us have arrival lounge access). I realise the crazy early arrival in both LHR and SYD benefits business travellers who want to get in a full days work upon arrival, but for the holiday maker its not conveinient.

That said in 2019 I came home from London via the US (LHR-JFK a fews days stop over the JFK-LAX-SYD) and will be doing the same this year (albeit LHR-JFK stopver JFF-ORD stop over, ORD-DFW-SYD).

 

[jb747]

Perth, closely followed by Darwin, would be my last choice for a transit port. Singapore is one two and three.

 

[transpactraveller]

If you fly LHR-SIN-SYD you arrive in the very early hours of the morning and then have to stay awake another 16-17 hours to get back on the right timeszone. Might be fine if you have had J seats and slept well on the flight, but in Y its near impossible to get any sleep so it is a struggle.

Whereas if you fly LHR-PER-SYD, its a nice early afternoon departure (so you can take the tube outside of peak hour), then when you land in PER clearing immigration is super quick (as its only for those not connecting to MEL) and you can take a shower in the lounge to feel human again. Then land late evening in SYD meanining you can go home and straight to bed waking up the next morning without jet lag as you have slept in the right timezone.

My preference (pre-covid) was QF via SIN to LHR and into the AA arrivals lounge in T3 for a shower and breakfast before heading into London. Sadly Qantas ended that contract in early 2020 and QF passengers no longer get access to the arrivals lounge.

On the return to Australia I'd normally pick the Emirates codeshare via DXB - similar thoughts around flight times, sleep and adjusting to destination timezone quicker.

 

[Mr H]

I have tried to think this one through and there are a lot of moving parts.

First off, we are not typical customers so our own preferences may be hard to generalise.

Many passengers would prefer to do a stopover in Asia rather than in Perth. But would they be choosing QF? Or would they be choosing EK, SQ or one of the other carriers? Trying to be a direct competitor is not going to work if the competition is perceived to be better - unless you are substantially cheaper - and QF is not.

Also, going through DXB, SIN or BKK, QF might sell tickets to passengers wanting to go to the midpoint, leaving them looking for non-Australian pax to fill the second sector to LHR. Would the non-Australians go for it in enough numbers to make the routing work? At least flying direct PER-LHR, anyone who gets a ticket will be going all the way to LHR.

In terms of arrival times, I have a hunch (but no evidence) that most pax pay way more attention to departure times than arrival times.

As for the domestic sector, there is an opportunity to sell the flight to domestic pax as an international standard service. Could be a fillip for the domestic route.

As for demand, the MEL pax may not want to go through PER as a preference, but PER has a lot of Poms who may find a single sector flight to LHR attractive. There will still be some MEL pax who will travel anyway - those not fussed by stopovers or those who want the quickest route.

The direct flights can gauge demand for single sector flights to Europe so when planes can do the whole journey from the east coast, there is enough data to justify the equipment needed.

The current arrangement through DRW is just a placeholder to keep the idea of direct flights alive in people's minds. Plus, it could be useful during Covid in removing a third country from travel and testing - but hopefully that would be a very short-lived advantage.

I am sure the formula QF is using for its decisions is complicated - and I bet it is focused on what works for QF, not what works for pax.

 

[andye]

It’s one of the easier Euro transits - especially in winter. HEL can freeze over but they still fly!

One of the commonest ways of going to HEL is through SIN

 

[henrus]

First off, we are not typical customers so our own preferences may be hard to generalise.

I think you're missing the biggest benefit of the QF flights, these services don't touch a 3rd country whilst in transit.

Being able to go from Australia direct to the UK is still a big benefit whilst countries continue to implement restrictions based on where you've been in the last 14 days. I've never flown QF to Europe before and haven't considered them previously due to the cost but now they're a serious option as the extra cost minimises headaches down the line.

 

[jase05]

I think you're missing the biggest benefit of the QF flights, these services don't touch a 3rd country whilst in transit.

Being able to go from Australia direct to the UK is still a big benefit whilst countries continue to implement restrictions based on where you've been in the last 14 days. I've never flown QF to Europe before and haven't considered them previously due to the cost but now they're a serious option as the extra cost minimises headaches down the line.

Absolutely a big benefit under current situations but hopefully by October when we head to Europe many of this restrictions are a thing of the past

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

There is nothing stopping WA from adopting the same approach.

There is something stopping WA from adopting the same approach, the Premier sees himself as Guardian, and won't open, or anything, everything else is not acceptable, except to keep WA covid safe, ie closed to 99.95% of peoples wanting to come into that state.
A certain person who sees himself as King, or Ruler, or something big.
Edit:
Anyone forsee if by end of the year, we would not need to go for a PCR/RAT test to exit Aust or to return.
More so I am musing about is the fees that are charged for these tests, esp overseas.
QF needs them to be done at the moment, and Japan charges quite a huge sum to get tested.

 

[Mr H]

I think you're missing the biggest benefit of the QF flights, these services don't touch a 3rd country whilst in transit.

Being able to go from Australia direct to the UK is still a big benefit whilst countries continue to implement restrictions based on where you've been in the last 14 days.

I thought I had covered that with the bit that said: "Plus, it could be useful during Covid in removing a third country from travel and testing - but hopefully that would be a very short-lived advantage."

 

[jb747]

I agree - I much preferred the old QF9 out of Melbourne, where it left at midnight and I arrived into LHR at 2pm. I could get a full days work done, and then on arrival, only have to survive for a short while before falling asleep. It did help that the first leg, was the long one and I could get some sleep, as it was so late to start with.

That was via Dubai, or earlier, via HKG.

When the 787 via Perth appeared, it actually caused the loss of most of the QF Europe passengers from Melbourne. Run it from Perth by all means, as the passengers from there had no effect on the loads of the 1 and 9. Most of us were surprised that they didn’t keep one of the 380s going via Dubai with the other to Singapore. A loop made some sort of sense.