QF to Confirm Points Upgrade Requests as late as at the gate when boarding

[Stephen65]

But what about the longer term? By allowing "cheap" (points or cash) sales of the seats, you then start to raise questions in the minds of those paying the full price - should they also try for the cheaper option (buy Y, look for upgrade). The greater the chances of success (i.e. the harder the airline works to not let empty seats fly), the greater the incentive.
...
Sufficient to say, it is not at all true that it is always better (in the long term for the airline) to sell a seat for points or cash rather than let if go empty.

I agree with this analysis and I will note two other factors in favour of not necessarily filling the J cabin on every flight with upgrades like US airlines do:

1. Once people who would have paid J start buying Y instead in the hope of an upgrade it could become a self-reinforcing cycle because that person is now creating a spare J seat by buying Y instead and thus creating more space for upgrades. Logically this could continue until the J cabin is only bought for cash by those who are not prepared to accept any risk of not being upgraded from Y.

2. Filling the J cabin with Y upgrades not only sends a message to those who would otherwise buy J that it might be smarter to buy Y and upgrade (particularly if they have high FF status) but risks annoying them too - because they feel like they are being a sucker for paying full J fare and because a full J cabin has lower amenity than a half-full J cabin.

 

[DTM1]

But they aren't selling the seats for cheap. The points required for the upgrades would be greater than the cash equivalents.

I don't think for one moment that the airlines expect to have to provide seats for those points. I have no doubt that there is a significant discount on the books for points that will be used for things other than flights, and for points which will expire (for some infrequent flyers). The challenge for non-status pax is ever getting a redemption seat up the front - less and less likely. Offering redemption for Y is less of an issue b/c some of those seats are sold at a loss anyway. At the end of the day, i would be surpsied if any airline could honour a fraction of the points it has on issue.

 

[DTM1]

I agree with this analysis and I will note two other factors in favour of not necessarily filling the J cabin on every flight with upgrades like US airlines do:

1. Once people who would have paid J start buying Y instead in the hope of an upgrade it could become a self-reinforcing cycle because that person is now creating a spare J seat by buying Y instead and thus creating more space for upgrades. Logically this could continue until the J cabin is only bought for cash by those who are not prepared to accept any risk of not being upgraded from Y.

2. Filling the J cabin with Y upgrades not only sends a message to those who would otherwise buy J that it might be smarter to buy Y and upgrade (particularly if they have high FF status) but risks annoying them too - because they feel like they are being a sucker for paying full J fare and because a full J cabin has lower amenity than a half-full J cabin.

I also agree with this. Sometimes it is better in the long run to maintain the "premium" feel of the product.

If the airline wants to relax redemption requirements, then it can free up more seats for in advance upgrade requests from status pax, but this also presents the same dilema. I think offering the upgrades at the gate does risk dimishing the perception of the product.

 

[Flying Fox]

I'm as worried about the diminishing chance of op-ups as the next guy (trust me).

But, some people seem oblivious to the fact that op-ups are not a published feature/benefit of the QFF program.

I agree.

Op-ups should be considered like winning the lottery or a gift from a friend; ie. you shouldn't count on it but simply be thankful and amazed that they happen at all.

Must be human nature to always want something for free (I'm not having a go at anyone).

 

[Stephen65]

Don't forget that there appear to be a large group of people who believe that spending their QF points on gift cards and toasters is an efficient use of them. If they never plan to fly this might be true but in any event it's allowing QF to discount the costs of those points considerably.

 

[samh004]

Well I look forward to some domestic op-ups in the future, got a lot of Q400, Q300, F100 and B717 flights coming up

 

[equus]

Don't forget that there appear to be a large group of people who believe that spending their QF points on gift cards and toasters is an efficient use of them.

If you ever meet one of these people, please don't try and persuade them otherwise. Leaves more opportunity for the rest of us to use the points on seats (either outright or upgrades).

 

[SeatBackForward]

Don't forget that there appear to be a large group of people who believe that spending their QF points on gift cards and toasters is an efficient use of them. If they never plan to fly this might be true but in any event it's allowing QF to discount the costs of those points considerably.

I redemmed points last year for a kettle and a toaster..not a bad deal consider the pair are over $200 at the shops. We now have the fanciest set amongst our friends..(overpriced rip-offs)

 

[simongr]

I grabbed a Nespresso machine for 44K points - seemed like a good deal - saved me $500.

 

[serfty]

I grabbed a Nespresso machine for 44K points - seemed like a good deal - saved me $500.

Ouch!:shock:

Considering that with xASA's I now value a point at more than 5¢ each ...

 

[simongr]

I didnt have a spare $500 but did have a spare 44K points...

 

[samh004]

I didnt have a spare $500 but did have a spare 44K points...

I’d have given you the $500 for the chance to blow 44k points on a JASA in DSC

 

[dfcatch]

Qantas has decided that it would rather sell the remaining seats for points than have them empty.

Besides QF's nominal value that they place on loyalty etc... It's a straightforward actuarial equation. They have determined (and published) the required points and the rules for such upgrades, and they capacity control awards and upgrades.

So they have determined the balance, and the value.....

All we have to do is consider that a points upgrade is adequate and sufficient currency - the flip-side is that we are at the mercy of their processes.

QF have rejigged the process to fill those otherwise empty seats at the last minute, but are not canvassing cash, free or discounted upgrades.

I would not read into it anymore than what has actually been announced.

 

[MrJetset]

I didnt have a spare $500 but did have a spare 44K points...

You're making a significant loss in the long term...

'At 55 cents for a 4-g capsule, Nespresso coffee works out to a nerve-jangling $62 per lb. ($137 per kg).'

From: Nespresso's Capsule Coffee Remain a Category Killer - TIME

 

[serfty]

You're making a significant loss in the long term...

'At 55 cents for a 4-g capsule, Nespresso coffee works out to a nerve-jangling $62 per lb. ($137 per kg).'

From: Nespresso's Capsule Coffee Remain a Category Killer - TIME

But you are paying for convenience ...

I'm an old home coffer grinder from way back but have succumbed to the convenience of the capsules ... eases domestic issues since I no longer leave minute specs of ground coffee here and there ...

... still I would not have paid (which would be for me) an effective $2,200 for a machine (I think ours was $250 as an older model.)

I am thinking Simon was in his EXP era ...

 

[Deleted member]

Yep. Nespresso for me.
I have a machine at home. Plus a biz version at the office.

 

[simongr]

still I would not have paid (which would be for me) an effective $2,200 for a machine (I think ours was $250 as an older model.)

I am thinking Simon was in his EXP era ...

Thing is that 45k is no actual use to me. If I travel personally then I need three tickets and they need to be long haul in J.

 

[serfty]

It depends on how one can garner points and intends to use them.

It's generally true that the more points you have the greater value can be obtained per point. But that's more pronounced for amounts under, say, 25k than over.

Posted on a wing and a prayer ...

 

[SteveJohnson]

Looks like its time to 'resurect' this thread as the Qantas program to confirm points upgrades right down to the wire goes live today, according to AusBT:

Qantas frequent flyers get last-minute

Qantas frequent flyer members will find it easier to snare an upgrade with today’s launch of ‘at the gate’ upgrades, as the airline aims to fill premium seats left empty due to passenger no-shows and missed connections.

However, here's something new, the scheme will only cater for solo travellers at this stage:

Under the new system, travellers need to opt in to register for upgrades through to the gate – and Hyams says that, for now, it only caters for single passengers travelling on a single ticket rather than a joint booking of two or more people per ticket.

 

[medhead]

Indeed. I just put in an upgrade request and saw the offer of a points upgrade on the day (or whatever the exact wording was). Problem for me is my booking has 6 people. But the conditions saw this late points upgrade is only available for bookings with 1 person.


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