QF32 388 - emergency landing in SIN after Engine failure

[samh004]

More developments ...

Rolls-Royce engines were modified well before Qantas mid-air scare | Herald Sun

Sounds pretty dodgy, then again we don’t know how recent the design changes were. RR would have to clarify, but they can’t be doing well with this news.

"In the future the computer will have software that can identify a problem at the outset and it will shut down an engine before a turbine disc can go out of control and come apart,'' Mr Leahy said.

Per above, I know it would be extremely rare/not likely that all engines would have an issue at the same time, but software that shuts down engines when it thinks there’s a problem wouldn’t be very useful if it were to happen to more than 1 engine

A 650 ton glider doesn’t sound much fun.

Asked if it could be as long as three months, he replied: "Certainly not as long as that."

Shouldn’t be a problem all summer then.

 

[straitman]

Sounds pretty dodgy, then again we don’t know how recent the design changes were. RR would have to clarify, but they can’t be doing well with this news.

Why dodgy Sam?

It is not uncommon for manufacturers to update things as they go along. They then do an assessment of currents items and work out an appropriately new maintenance schedule for those current items.

In this case they either got it wrong or this was an item that was going to fail anyway of unrelated causes.

Per above, I know it would be extremely rare/not likely that all engines would have an issue at the same time, but software that shuts down engines when it thinks there’s a problem wouldn’t be very useful if it were to happen to more than 1 engine

A 650 ton glider doesn’t sound much fun.

There are easy work arounds for this which include other systems that limit, in this case, the amount of authority that these 'shutdown' systems have.

Shouldn’t be a problem all summer then.

I would not hang my hat on a throw away line if I was you.

 

[oz_mark]

spokesman John Leahy

Spokesman?

CEO (or is it COO these days) more like it :shock:

 

[NM]

Hmmm, the thick plottens ...

 

[oz_mark]

Interesting updates on the ATSB site

One image I was ineterested in was the map of the where parts were found on Batam (Small image here - go to the ATSB site to see a bigger version)

 

[samh004]

Why dodgy Sam?

Well it’d be dodgy if they knew about the issue for a while and were quietly making changes, and not issuing directives to say there could be a problem. But then, we don’t know that’s the case, so it’s hard to say what’s really been going on at all.

If they knew for a while and were quietly doing things without telling anyone, very bad, dodgy even. If on the other hand the reported changes aren’t that recent, it’s not so dodgy.

It’s hard to go wither way, but seeing as RR is having problems, easier to pick a side

 

[oz_mark]

They may well have told people about it, just that no-one perceived how significant it may have been.

 

[docjames]

One thinks RR should have retro fitted the fix to all active airframes (or done an engine swap).

Thanks to jb747 for answering my question. Sounds like fun in the sim, but not something anyone would really try in real life!

 

[Sprucegoose]

Spokesman?

CEO (or is it COO these days) more like it :shock:

I thought he was their chief salesman?

Don't forget Eddie M used to run channel 9!

 

[YQY]

Sir John Rose, Chief Executive, said:
“Safety is the highest priority of Rolls-Royce. This has been demonstrated by the rapid and prudent action we have taken following the Trent 900 incident. We have instigated a programme of measures in collaboration with Airbus, our Trent 900 customers and the regulators. This will enable our customers progressively to bring the whole fleet back into service. We regret the disruption we have caused."

Is this an admission of liability by RR?

Interim management statement - Rolls-Royce

 

[YQY]

Just got a call from McNair Ingenuity Research asking for me view on...

1. Had i read media reports on qantas lately?
2. What did i read?
3. What i thought of the A380 issue?
4. Was it caused by the A380, Qantas or Engine supplier?
5. How qantas handled the situation?
6. Did i think qantas was safe to fly?
7. Did outsourcing maintanence OS cause the issue? etc

QANTAS have had a rough time with the media lately - i think they are trying to gauge the level of damage done by the RR Engine issue.

 

[codash1099]

Just got a call from McNair Ingenuity Research asking for me view on...

1. Had i read media reports on qantas lately?
2. What did i read?
3. What i thought of the A380 issue?
4. Was it caused by the A380, Qantas or Engine supplier?
5. How qantas handled the situation?
6. Did i think qantas was safe to fly?
7. Did outsourcing maintanence OS cause the issue? etc

QANTAS have had a rough time with the media lately - i think they are trying to gauge the level of damage done by the RR Engine issue.

Had the same call. They were also interested in comparisons with other airlines and what I thought of how QF handled the situation.

A phone poll indicates some degree of urgency.

 

[ethernet]

Just got a call from McNair Ingenuity Research asking for me view on...

1. Had i read media reports on qantas lately
2. What did i read?
3. What i thought of the A380 issue?
4. Was it caused by the A380, Qantas or Engine supplier?
5. How qantas handled the situation?
6. Did i think qantas was safe to fly?
7. Did outsourcing maintanence OS cause the issue? etc

QANTAS have had a rough time with the media lately - i think they are trying to gauge the level of damage done by the RR Engine issue.

For me:-

1) Yes
2) That RR will give QF some engines fresh off the production line that don't blow up - and that RR won't say WHEN they made the change, or what other changes they are not telling. That RR kept its customers in the dark.
3) Curious, but did not affect me - I am not a FF
4) It was caused by Roll Royce - they knew, but apparently did not tell QF
5) QF handled the situation professionally, and as it turns out seen to tell the truth all along, even if they were a bit protective of their supplier
6) Yes. I would will be more even more impressed if I knew why SQ was flying (Did they know they had the fixed-up new model engines but QF left in the dark as dummies by RR?)
7) Outsourcing - no I don't think so - but we'll see who was making the bearing box for RR

Other: I think QF limited 'damage' as best as it could. Should get out of this in 3 months time, after all engines have been replaced. But god help them if one of the new engines on 380 misbehaves in any way.

I am confused and still concerned about RR engines because RR is not telling the whole truth.

8) Oil vent Tube carbon blockages - What's the story with this?
9) Abnormal wear - that seems another design issue - unaddressed?
10) Who is going to get most favored treatment - SQ or QF?
11) Rim Fracture on IC blade - metallurgy results in yet?
12) Why was QF 'unaware' of the engine change that RR announced?.
13) are passengers going to be told 'we put 2 new engines on the inner, and moved the patched up older engines to the outer if rationing takes place :evil:
14) Are the banks - who make have 'I own this engine' happy owning a dud?

In all if I was QF I would be mightily peeved RR kept its 'partner' in the dark, like a mushroom. If some backroom deal was made to keep RR smelling like roses, I still smell a rat.

Either RR's PR mob is better than I thought, or the journalists have lost their ability to think critically. Q's 8-13 are still open and festering, and will make for a great page 1 spread. QF32 388 - emergency landing in SIN after Engine failure

T-Shirt people - Please order 2 dozen 'I flew on <insert engine company> and survived ! with a A380 and a smoking engine to give out at the next PR meeting - with a down loadable link and anyperson and dog can get printed. Multilingual - In Chinese, French and English and German too.

If I was the OTHER engine company, these would be a 'must have' at the Christmas party and the gift shop.

But while this mess is sorted, I expect engines to be de-rated, and over serviced/ watched like a hawk.

 

[markis10]

Had a chat with a QF staffer in spares this morning, word is there are 8 engines now requiring repair and they will be stripping them from factory birds.

 

[ethernet]

So the rationing begins.
If the plane is scrapped/becomes spares - see rumors, thats 4 engines less they need. Seems wing spar may have copped a full hit and did not break. A new wing is too big to fly out.

More Rumors here: Rumors . Note the dodge by QF.

Also what is the story with Module 51 -air-transfer tube? Module 51
Sure, bearings can get hot, but if the airflow is uneven, things can buckle/twist or even fatigue in heat cycles. I hope Qantas is being well compensated not to spill the beans. Trashy Article and Happy Snaps of another engine. GE Engine thingys
That is what the recommendation was, for one example, following four incidents with other (GE in this case) engines. See: SB-10-20 ; Critical GE Issue

Again, Journalists are tame puppys, plenty of run left - but a cargo plane is so much more boring.

 

[Danger]

A friend of mine who is a captain with DJ sent me the following information he acquired from a pilot friend.

I heard the leading edge slats couldn’t be deployed at all, leaving the approach flat and fast, and the Brake ABS systems failed once he landed meaning he used all the length of Changis 4,000m (13,123ft) !!!! runway … that might be heresay (Daily Telegraph), but if you add that to the below list that’s starting to make me think Ron Berry’s method of giving failures were soft.

The worst sim exercise you could imagine x 50 ... in real life!



Bit more complex than his Caribou check rides during his RAF flying career.

Here are just SOME of the problems Richard had in Singapore last week aboard QF32.... I won't bother mentioning the engine explosion!.... oops...mentioned the engine explosion, sorry.....


* massive fuel leak in the left mid fuel tank (the beast has 11 tanks, including in the horizontal stabiliser on the tail)

* massive fuel leak in the left inner fuel tank

* a hole on the flap canoe/fairing that you could fit your upper body through

* the aft gallery in the fuel system failed, preventing many fuel transfer functions

* fuel jettison had problems due to the previous problem above

* bloody great hole in the upper wing surface

* partial failure of leading edge slats

* partial failure of speed brakes/ground spoilers

* shrapnel damage to the flaps

* TOTAL loss of all hydraulic fluid in the Green System (beast has 2 x 5,000 PSI systems, Green and Yellow)

* manual extension of landing gear

* loss of 1 generator and associated systems

* loss of brake anti-skid system

* unable to shutdown adjacent #1 engine using normal method after landing due to major damage to systems

* unable to shutdown adjacent #1 engine using the fire switch!!!!!!!!

Therefore, no fire protection was available for that engine after the explosion in #2

* ECAM warnings about major fuel imbalance because of fuel leaks on left side, that were UNABLE to be fixed with cross-feeding

* fuel trapped in Trim Tank (in the tail). Therefore, possible major CofG out-of-balance condition for landing. Yikes!

* and much more to come..........

Richard was in the left seat, FO in the right), SO in the 2nd obs seat (right rear, also with his own Radio Management Panel, so he probably did most of the coordination with the ground), Capt Dave Evans in the 1st obs seat (middle). He is a Check & Training Captain who was training Harry Wubbin to be one also. Harry was in the 3rd obs seat (left rear). All 5 guys were FLAT OUT, especially the FO who would have been processing complicated 'ECAM' messages and procedures that were seemingly never-ending!





​

 

[NM]

QF32 CVR overwritten due to engine fault as engine removed

From Australian Aviation:

The coughpit voice recorder (CVR) from A380 VH-OQA involved in the QF32 engine failure near Singapore on November 4 has had key parts of the emergency overwritten because the aircraft’s outboard number 1 engine, which supplies power to the CVR, was unable to be shut down immediately after the aircraft made its emergency landing.

Now there is an interesting and unexpected side-effect of the incident.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Seems like the pilots did a pretty good job landing the plane considering all of the problems mentioned in Danger's post.

I hope that Air Crash Investigators make a show about this one.

 

[NM]

Rolls-Royce reportedly set to replace A380 engines

From ATW Daily News:

Rolls-Royce has advised airlines that up to 34 Trent 900 engines may have to be replaced, according to airline sources in Sydney, who noted that Singapore Airlines may have to replace up to 20 engines in its fleet of 11 Airbus A380s, and Qantas may have to replace 14 engines.

So does this mean SQ continues to operate aircraft with engines that have been identified by the manufacturer as needing to be replaced? Of have I missed reports of more than 3 SQ A380s being grounded?

 

[maninblack]

Re: Rolls-Royce reportedly set to replace A380 engines

From ATW Daily News:



So does this mean SQ continues to operate aircraft with engines that have been identified by the manufacturer as needing to be replaced? Of have I missed reports of more than 3 SQ A380s being grounded?

I believe they were still flying yesterday. You would think they have to pull them.
I do not think we will see any of the grounded QF A380's flying again before Christmas. QF has really done a bang up job (pardon the almost pun) on it's fleet renewal plan. I will limit my comments on the people who ran the company for the last 10 years to iconography only :?: