QFF Ideas & Suggestions

[dfcatch]

....but if a J class seat was guaranteed by points upgrade?

Excellent question - points are a valid form of currency.

And just like now (i'm talking DOM in this discussion), you can only upgrade with points in advance if there is U inventory available. Otherwise you have to wait and try your luck with an ODU.

So in short, the answer is that purchasing a J seat is the only way to guarantee a J seat. (unless EF shows U available and you book Y and upgrade straight away - already possible btw).

 

[kpc]

I'm going to be controversial here, and state that I don't think QF will enact any of our suggestions here as QF will perceive them as a cost and potential lost revenue. I'm very happy to be proven wrong (and will come back with an appropriate "humble pie" response) but I can't see any of these suggestions here being taken up by Qf:shock::evil:

 

[markis10]

Markis, what point are you trying to make? I'm confused, are you saying the cabin should fly empty, and ODUs shouldn't be allowed?

I normally state the point I make, my post was observation of a situation opposite that reported.

I don't see how the upgrade situation can change for the better without a cost being borne elsewhere, it has improved over the last 14 years for frequent flyers significantly. It may not match other programs but I believe that is a case of swings and roundabouts, we cannot have it all!

 

[dfcatch]

I'm going to be controversial here, and state that I don't think QF will enact any of our suggestions here as QF will perceive them as a cost and potential lost revenue. I'm very happy to be proven wrong (and will come back with an appropriate "humble pie" response) but I can't see any of these suggestions here being taken up by Qf:shock::evil:

And therein lies the rub!

If QF continue to discount the intangible goodwill created by loyalty benefit "costs", then the loyalty program itself will underperform in it's primary goal; and that is to attain and retain loyal customers and in turn increasing revenue to the Group.

QF are regularly (and deservedly) derided by us for devaluing our benefits.

They have an opportunity if they are genuine to win back the loyalty of their best customers.

If as you predict, they continue to act as bean counters and devalue benefits then, whilst still having the loyalty of customers due to incumbency, they will lose it as soon as viable alternatives emerge.

And on the international front, alternatives already exist.

Don't underestimate John Borghetti.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Hypothetical.

If you were my dad, l could only transfer to you once a "year".

This points transfer limit could be changed in about 5 minutes l suspect, and should.

LOL - you don't work in enterprise IT then

Specs need to be updated
Code needs to be written
Unit tests need to be written and run
Code needs to be placed through Test, UAT and into Production
Instructions on new procedures need to be written and sent to call centres, whoever manages the website etc.
None of this is trivial to do in an enterprise IT environment, even more so when it's outsourced.

Definately not a 5 minute job...

 

[extracta]

I don't see how the upgrade situation can change for the better without a cost being borne elsewhere, it has improved over the last 14 years for frequent flyers significantly. It may not match other programs but I believe that is a case of swings and roundabouts, we cannot have it all!

It is easy. If there are empty seats offer the ability to upgrade on departure via points and cash. If people want to take it up they can. QANTAS would probably even end up making more money out of it.

For example here is a link to a TG upgrade table that has set prices for on departure upgrades.

http://www.thaiairways.no/REISE_THAIAIRWAYS/IMAGES/stby_upgrade_table_25NOV09.pdf

The only losers are the front end cabin staff who have to work harder.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I'm going to be controversial here, and state that I don't think QF will enact any of our suggestions here as QF will perceive them as a cost and potential lost revenue. I'm very happy to be proven wrong (and will come back with an appropriate "humble pie" response) but I can't see any of these suggestions here being taken up by Qf:shock::evil:

Agreed. Enhancements aren't free, and when there is competition within the business for capital, the cost of the enhancements needs to be justified.

So, looking for things that cost little has got to be the best way forward. The argument that there's "intangible goodwill" that's been eroded I'm very sure has been considered by QF. It's just that QF puts a different value on it to what many people here do.

Lastly, I think QF is going to be wary about giving people more. People here will never be satified until the FF program here does everything every other FF program does (and then some). Well - that's my opinion anyway.

To expect much from QF is to be disappointed IMHO.

 

[markis10]

It is easy. If there are empty seats offer the ability to upgrade on departure via points and cash. If people want to take it up they can. QANTAS would probably even end up making more money out of it.

For example here is a link to a TG upgrade table that has set prices for on departure upgrades.

http://www.thaiairways.no/REISE_THAIAIRWAYS/IMAGES/stby_upgrade_table_25NOV09.pdf

The only losers are the front end cabin staff who have to work harder.

I did not say its hard, but you missed my point in relation to a similar scheme that Hilton have that upsets its biggest customers, I am well aware other airlines offer it, strangely enough its the ones that are not doing well, are they losers?????

 

[el_rooto]

I did not say its hard, but you missed my point in relation to a similar scheme that Hilton have that upsets its biggest customers, I am well aware other airlines offer it, strangely enough its the ones that are not doing well, are they losers?????

What about keeping the current system for upgrades and QF introducing International ODU's for wp's which they can purchase with points, regardless of booking class.

 

[extracta]

I did not say its hard, but you missed my point in relation to a similar scheme that Hilton have that upsets its biggest customers, I am well aware other airlines offer it, strangely enough its the ones that are not doing well, are they losers?????

QANTAS have a captive audience in Australia and a loyal following to the extent that they can sell the exact same product to an Australian in Australia for more than they will charge a person who is booking from overseas.

They are also now making a lot of money off the VISA/AMEX QFF cards that became popular about a year ago. They now basically have a guaranteed source of income without the need to put a plane in the air.

It will be interesting to see what happens with current awards and upgrade policies when all of those people want to start flying without paying any money. (I am one of them, I will just save my points until one day there is enough there for me to get a flight)

The stronger QANTAS is the weaker its FF program will be and their platinum and gold frequent fliers will be the ones most affected.

Its already started.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I'm going to be controversial here, and state that I don't think QF will enact any of our suggestions here as QF will perceive them as a cost and potential lost revenue.

+1
If it costs them money, it probably won't happen.

It's been good having these discussions though. A lot of good ideas are coming out (most of which has already been talked about on this forum for a long time).

 

[TonyHancock]

What about keeping the current system for upgrades and QF introducing International ODU's for wp's which they can purchase with points, regardless of booking class.

Isn't that close to the current status though? I know it is not technically ODU at the moment but if you are trying to upgrade you have to wait until 5 hours before departure to find out. (Seems to me that it is only the real cheap tickets that are non upgradeable and I think it should stay that way.)

I can never justify QF J pricing, but I can justify Y+. If I can book a Y or Y+ with advance upgrade confirmation then for the five months after WP qualification (It takes me approx 7 months to get to WP) I would continue to fly QF. The double miles give me the incentive if I know I can use them for upgrades.

I wonder how many other smaller businesses would be happy with this?

 

[oz_mark]

I'm going to be controversial here, and state that I don't think QF will enact any of our suggestions here as QF will perceive them as a cost and potential lost revenue. I'm very happy to be proven wrong (and will come back with an appropriate "humble pie" response) but I can't see any of these suggestions here being taken up by Qf:shock::evil:

While I would not expect that they come back in the same form as anticipated here, I am sure they would look at the feedback and possibly some items may feed into changes. It is good to see that they are seeking feedback, and I hope something postive can come from it.

I just hope the suggestions don't come back in a form where we can can remind people to be careful of what they ask for :shock:

 

[samh004]

Talking about upgrades, perhaps you change the times it takes to confirm the upgrades based on status. So a WP+CL can get immediate upgrades, while SG could be say, a month before travel, PS a week and NB, QC and below the current 5 hour system. That way they’re not diluting the ability to get upgrades too much.

 

[dfcatch]

People here will never be satified until the FF program here does everything every other FF program does (and then some). Well - that's my opinion anyway.

To expect much from QF is to be disappointed IMHO.

True, very true.

But I'd be happy knowing that my benefits are not being devalued/removed. And I'm not whingeing about anytime access here

It's about attitude and perception.

There's nothing wrong with QF removing some benefits and replacing them with others.
But it has to be "genuine".

 

[codash1099]

It is easy. If there are empty seats offer the ability to upgrade on departure via points and cash. If people want to take it up they can. QANTAS would probably even end up making more money out of it.

For example here is a link to a TG upgrade table that has set prices for on departure upgrades.

http://www.thaiairways.no/REISE_THAIAIRWAYS/IMAGES/stby_upgrade_table_25NOV09.pdf

The only losers are the front end cabin staff who have to work harder.

Well QF will lose if they decide to cater for all PAX who might potentially end up in J or they may lose via disgruntled PAX who feel they have paid and are not getting the full J service. The present system of "catering not confirmed" seems to me to be unsatisfactory as an attempt to have an each way bet. For some reason, they don't even seem to be able to offer a Y meal to those affected.

 

[dfcatch]

Without wanting to go OT too much from Red Roo's request for suggestions....

I just want to make the point to Red Roo and QF, that going through the motions of consultation with your constituency is great, but there are two ways to go about it.

1/ you can be like most, particularly politicians and make the decision before consultation.
Just don't be surprised when your customers are perpetually cynical as a result.

2/ you can ask for suggestions and genuinely take ideas on board before making decisions (improvements).

Naturally the outcomes will never please everyone, but if the process is genuine, then your customers will respect your efforts and will remain loyal customers.

I take the point that QF don't want to increase expenditure.... But we are talking about a loyalty program are we not???

That's enough of me going OT, I look forward to seeing more suggestions from other members.

 

[drron]

I did not say its hard, but you missed my point in relation to a similar scheme that Hilton have that upsets its biggest customers, I am well aware other airlines offer it, strangely enough its the ones that are not doing well, are they losers?????

Not entirely true.Wasn't aadvantage the first of the modern FF programs.And AA is the only US legacy airline that has not gone through Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
Also the Hilton Nor 1 upgrades are for every tom,d*ck and harry not just members of hhonors and that upsets people.

 

[extracta]

Well QF will lose if they decide to cater for all PAX who might potentially end up in J or they may lose via disgruntled PAX who feel they have paid and are not getting the full J service.

A few disgruntled J Pax is not a problem for QF, they have already shown the direction they intend to go in by removal of anytime access for the WP's. The profits are now coming from the masses and a lot of the masses don't even fly Qantas.

QF are now more concerned about the money they get from the 5.8 Million FF's they have every time they use their MC/Amex/Woolworths cards. And why wouldn't they be.

Link to FF Annual Report
Frequent Flyer » Qantas Annual Report 2009

 

[AnonymousCoward]

True, very true.

But I'd be happy knowing that my benefits are not being devalued/removed. And I'm not whingeing about anytime access here

It's about attitude and perception.

There's nothing wrong with QF removing some benefits and replacing them with others.
But it has to be "genuine".

F Lounge access to the new Syd/Mel lounges probably isn't cheap
J Lounge access for Domestic flights
AIR magazine
Advanced seat selection online
Increased luggage allowances for some flights
Choice of "reward" at 2400 SCs

So, there's a few things that QF have tossed into the pot. Whether they are worth anything is a matter of debate I suppose.

Over time, as the program grows, and there are more and more status pax, I would expect some devaluation. Think of it as inflation.