QFF Ideas & Suggestions

[markis10]

The need to fill a cabin with upgrades may require more staff, at a cost to qantas, and remove the flexibility of being able to put other flights pax in them when things go wrong. Why should a non loyal non frequent flyer be in front of a loyal frequent flyer when it comes to upgrades? Opportunistic flyers save money at the expense of comfort some times, that's the price they choose to pay, you cannot have privileges and best price.

 

[extracta]

The need to fill a cabin with upgrades may require more staff, at a cost to qantas, and remove the flexibility of being able to put other flights pax in them when things go wrong. Why should a non loyal non frequent flyer be in front of a loyal frequent flyer when it comes to upgrades? Opportunistic flyers save money at the expense of comfort some times, that's the price they choose to pay, you cannot have privileges and best price.

A lot of those seats could be filled with LOYAL FREQUENT FLYERS too.

From what I am gathering on this thread the loyal frequent flyers would like to see a much improved upgrade system as well.

You would also probably find that the "non loyal frequent flyer" you refer to would probably become a "loyal frequent flyer" if the issues being referred to in this thread were acted upon. I know I would.

 

[codash1099]

There is no cost allocated to SCs within the loyalty program, which is why government travel awards them, they are recognition not reward. Why not recognise frequent travellers with that recognition given there are a few ports where that is now the only option when you need to fly with a QF group airline.

That doesn't make them free of cost to QF. As you progress up the status scale, there are definite costs associated with SC's - cabin points bonuses for example.

My guess is that QF aren't looking to increase their costs in this exercise, at least without something tangible in the way of increased business in return. If you go through the suggestions made here with that in mind, quite a lot is eliminated.

My view is that what is most needed is a change of attitude. As others have said, stop treating us as mugs with this "enhancement" bull. We all know what it is. And don't p*ss off your most loyal customers, as indicated by their status in your "loyalty" program.

 

[markis10]

A lot of those seats could be filled with LOYAL FREQUENT FLYERS too.

From what I am gathering on this thread the loyal frequent flyers would like to see a much improved upgrade system as well.

You would also probably find that the "non loyal frequent flyer" you refer to would probably become a "loyal frequent flyer" if the issues being referred to in this thread were acted upon. I know I would.

QF have had confirmed upgrades on domestic legs for a long time and that does not seem to have solved the complaints in that respect. IMHO your point about being behind frequent flyers in the upgrade wait list is just basic business commonsense, look at the Hilton program and the way it allows upgrades at reservation time, it's not popular with their more loyal guests as it erodes benefits and revenue.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

My view is that what is most needed is a change of attitude. As others have said, stop treating us as mugs with this "enhancement" bull. We all know what it is. And don't p*ss off your most loyal customers, as indicated by their status in your "loyalty" program.

Well said.
I am sure that there are a handful of members on this board that know more about QF (ticketing, member entitlements, etc, etc...) than some of the check-in, QP or FA employees.

I have only flown J a few times and on 1 particular trip (SYD-MEL, 7pm), it was me and 1 other guy. The other 10 or so J seats were empty and the whY cabin choc-a-block. I was kind of baffled by that to be honest. There were 2 FA's in the J Cabin too. Upgrading 2 or 3 people (like a WP or SG), l don't think would have caused any harm. There was more than enough food because l was offered a second serving of dinner.

 

[oz_mark]

That doesn't make them free of cost to QF. As you progress up the status scale, there are definite costs associated with SC's - cabin points bonuses for example.

My guess is that QF aren't looking to increase their costs in this exercise, at least without something tangible in the way of increased business in return. If you go through the suggestions made here with that in mind, quite a lot is eliminated.

It is going to be true of just about any improvement. The challenge is to find things, that while they result in extra costs, the incremetal increase in revenue (from encouraging more flying) needs to be sufficient to add to profit. As a result, adding extra additional costs is not always a bad thing. It is a bad thing if there is no increase in revenue as a result!

 

[markis10]

Well said.
I am sure that there are a handful of members on this board that know more about QF (ticketing, member entitlements, etc, etc...) than some of the check-in, QP or FA employees.

I have only flown J a few times and on 1 particular trip (SYD-MEL, 7pm), it was me and 1 other guy. The other 10 or so J seats were empty and the whY cabin choc-a-block. I was kind of baffled by that to be honest. There were 2 FA's in the J Cabin too. Upgrading 2 or 3 people (like a WP or SG), l don't think would have caused any harm. There was more than enough food because l was offered a second serving of dinner.

To contrast that experience with mine on Friday, there were two paid j seats taken and ten ODUs handed out for CNS to BNE. QF are getting better at them, but it's still rare to see them when there is no need, it erodes the value of J in their eyes.

 

[oz_mark]

I have only flown J a few times and on 1 particular trip (SYD-MEL, 7pm), it was me and 1 other guy. The other 10 or so J seats were empty and the whY cabin choc-a-block. I was kind of baffled by that to be honest. There were 2 FA's in the J Cabin too. Upgrading 2 or 3 people (like a WP or SG), l don't think would have caused any harm. There was more than enough food because l was offered a second serving of dinner.

The issue I guess is trying to balance the aims of extracting premium prices for the cabin with offering upgrades as a reward for loyalty. In the end, one needs to be wary of developing an entrenched sense of entitlement in the status passengers. You see it enough in statements like 'there was an empty seat in J, I am entitled to it'.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

The issue I guess is trying to balance the aims of extracting premium prices for the cabin with offering upgrades as a reward for loyalty. In the end, one needs to be wary of developing an entrenched sense of entitlement in the status passengers. You see it enough in statements like 'there was an empty seat in J, I am entitled to it'.

This is true. That's why l said, 2 or 3. Not to fill the cabin. I was in 1A and the other guy was in 1D. He didn't look back once. I am sure that if you put someone in 2A, 2D and 3B he wouldn't have noticed. On top of that, his work might have paid and he wouldn't have cared who else was in the J Cabin. But yes, it is a balancing act.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

1 idea that could be implemented ASAP and not cost 1 cent to QF is to lift the transferring of points which is very limited. Maybe lift it to 5 transfers per person per year?

 

[oz_mark]

1 idea that could be implemented ASAP and not cost 1 cent to QF is to lift the transferring of points which is very limited. Maybe lift it to 5 transfers per person per year?

Actually from Dec 1, it will be profitable for them if people ring up to do it :shock: (still no charge if done online though)

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Actually from Dec 1, it will be profitable for them if people ring up to do it :shock: (still no charge if done online though)

Hypothetical.

If you were my dad, l could only transfer to you once a "year".

This points transfer limit could be changed in about 5 minutes l suspect, and should.

 

[oz_mark]

Hypothetical.

If you were my dad, l could only transfer to you once a "year".

This points transfer limit could be changed in about 5 minutes l suspect, and should.

My comment was around the fact that from Dec 1 they will start charging for family transfers through the service centre.

 

[extracta]

IMHO your point about being behind frequent flyers in the upgrade wait list is just basic business commonsense,

The point is that there should be no upgrade wait list unless their is no physical seat left on the plane.

When you book a ticket you should be able to upgrade if you have the points regardless of status. Other airlines allow you to. Qantas customers should not put up with their airlines upgrade policy.

The points have already been paid for either through paid flights or CC/Woolworths type alliances. The points are like money in the bank.

I spend a lot of money on international airfares annually and none of it goes to QANTAS even though I have quite a few QFF points from my CC. If QANTAS improves its frequent flyer program they will get my money.

 

[pauly7]

The issue I guess is trying to balance the aims of extracting premium prices for the cabin with offering upgrades as a reward for loyalty. In the end, one needs to be wary of developing an entrenched sense of entitlement in the status passengers. You see it enough in statements like 'there was an empty seat in J, I am entitled to it'.

And you end up with a tragic tragic business like AA.

I'd never want to see QF devalue their J cabin that far...

Perhaps there is some relatively happy medium....

 

[TonyHancock]

And you end up with a tragic tragic business like AA.

I'd never want to see QF devalue their J cabin that far...

Perhaps there is some relatively happy medium....

I agree. Why would any frequent J class flier ever bother to book a J class seat again?

 

[dfcatch]

To contrast that experience with mine on Friday, there were two paid j seats taken and ten ODUs handed out for CNS to BNE. QF are getting better at them, but it's still rare to see them when there is no need, it erodes the value of J in their eyes.

Markis, what point are you trying to make? I'm confused, are you saying the cabin should fly empty, and ODUs shouldn't be allowed? Or are you saying that it's good that QF are filling the cabin when available?

For those people that are suggesting no-one should be in the J cabin unless paying J fare - would you be so kind as to disclose who is paying for your J fare? IMHO there IS a difference in the value of your opinion depending on whether you or your employer is paying. And it certainly is an elitist point of view.

FWIW:

1/ The status priority order for international upgrades is a good thing. The most frequent and loyal customers should be allocated upgrades on a preferred basis.

2/ There us nothing wrong with ODU/OpUps/Automatic Upgrades for WP.
If ODU, the cost if the seat is borne out by the points used to upgrade, this is no different to using cash to upgrade (if allowed), or using cash or points to buy an award seat. It's a valid currency and does NOT devalue the cabin.

OpUps/Automatic Upgrades (if allowed), also do not devalue the cabin, as premium status pax have earned their premium status via significant BIS time/cash spent with QF. Plus, there is no guarantee of an op-up. If you want a guaranteed seat in J, then you have to buy a J fare (either cash or points).

In summary, I agree that QF should fill premium cabins rather than fly them half empty. It doesn't devalue the premium fares, and engenders significant intangible loyalty from premium customers.

For those who disagree and are lucky enough to have someone else pay for their J seats - when you have to pay yourself, or have a company policy of Y; I'm sure you will have a different view and would appreciate having a greater chance of access to premium cabins.

 

[dfcatch]

I agree. Why would any frequent J class flier ever bother to book a J class seat again?

Because it is the only way to be guaranteed a J seat.

 

[extracta]

I agree. Why would any frequent J class flier ever bother to book a J class seat again?

For the same reason they book them now. Their company is paying.

If the money were coming out of their own pocket they would internationally at least find better value elsewhere.

 

[TonyHancock]

Because it is the only way to be guaranteed a J seat.

....but if a J class seat was guaranteed by points upgrade?

For the same reason they book them now. Their company is paying.

Can't argue with that, and it is unlikely to change, certainly in the bigger companies.