QP Redemption - China Airlines - flight change with long layover

[mydogsteelo]

Hello There,

I booked a flight with qantas points on China Airlines from Sydney to Seoul via Taipei in business. When i booked the tickets we had a 2.5hr connection in Taipei. but since then they have moved the flight from Brisbane to Taipei to the day before so now we have a 26hr connection. Is there any way the airline will pay for a hotel for the night? or give any compensation? Im not totally annoyed by the change as it means i can go into the city and have a nice night, but if possible id love the airline to pick up the bill for the hotel .

Thanks!

 

[sudoer]

26hr connection

Did they cancel the flight on your original day of departure and reaccommodate you on SYD-TPE a day earlier?

Do you have travel insurance? (I think that would be an easier route to go down)

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I’m a little confused here. Were you originally booked to fly Sydney to Seoul but now the airline has rebooked you on Brisbane to Seoul departing the day before? If that’s the case that seems like a pretty clear breach of contract since your agreement with them is for Sydney to Seoul. So they will need to find a way to get you to Brisbane (perhaps on Qantas) since that’s what the contract stipulates. If a hotel is required, the airline will simply have to cover it under Article 19 of the Montreal Convention, so I’d keep receipts and claim that back later.

But actually we should take a step back here. Are you happy with what they are proposing? If not, I would look for alternates with Qantas and go from there. For instance, I believe Qantas operates nonstops between Sydney and Tokyo. Presumably they could open up a seat for you on that flight, and provided there is classic award availability on partner JAL for the onward connection to ICN, they can simply rebook it for you without paying any extra points of $$$. After all it was the airline, not you who caused the disruption in travel

 

[sudoer]

Presumably they could open up a seat for you on that flight, and provided there is classic award availability on partner JAL for the onward connection to ICN, they can simply rebook it for you without paying any extra points of $$$.

OP, ignore the above, it's bad advice.

QF is not obligated to open a seat on their own metal when a partner airline makes a cancellation or schedule change.

 

[MELso]

As an involuntary change, it’s definitely one for CI to sort out. The problem is that you’ll probably have to have Qantas - the world’s worst travel agent in these circumstances - act for you.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

QF is not obligated to open a seat on their own metal when a partner airline makes a cancellation or schedule change.

They may not be obligated, but they have certainly done that before in the case of award tickets going sideways. One particular example that comes to mind are those instances where QF fails to ticket an award in a timely manner on a partner resulting in the ticket being cancelled by the partner airline. Certainly it never hurts to try.

-RooFlyer88

 

[sudoer]

One particular example that comes to mind are those instances where QF fails to ticket an award in a timely manner on a partner resulting in the ticket being cancelled by the partner airline.

But that isn't what's happened here, is it? In that case QF would be at least partially at fault.

OP has practically zero chance of getting a QF seat opened unless they are WP/P1 and put in a request (treated like any other new booking, not related to their schedule change)

 

[kangarooflyer88]

But that isn't what's happened here, is it? In that case QF would be at least partially at fault.

Does Qantas charge a fee to call its contact centre? Last I checked, no they don’t! All it is going to cost the traveller is a bit of time. Worse case they don’t help, but you never know. They might extend an olive branch. And if the travel now commences in Brisbane instead of Sydney there is that mess to clear up too.

-RooFlyer88

 

[sudoer]

Worse case they don’t help, but you never know.

I will acknowledge there is an extremely slim chance that Qantas might open a seat to accommodate a CI-invoked change but the only way this happens is the QF agent misunderstanding QFF T&C and/or negligence.

The problem is that's not the advice you gave originally - you made it sound like OP was entitled to this, and it was "simply" guaranteed:

they can simply rebook it for you without paying any extra points of $$$. After all it was the airline, not you who caused the disruption in travel

More than any other poster on AFF in recent memory, you repeatedly share poor advice and misinformation, and have become infamous for doing so. Other members have already called you out on this but it needs to continue being called out as it's detrimental to both the poster asking the question and any lurkers who stumble upon this thread in a similar conundrum.

Please consider resisting the urge to post when you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I will acknowledge there is an extremely slim chance that Qantas might open a seat to accommodate a CI-invoked change but the only way this happens is the QF agent misunderstanding QFF T&C and/or negligence.

Certainly an argument could be made that during a significant change like that the operating airline is on the hook to fix it. Now whether CI will offer a fix when the traveller contacts them is up for debate but that is also an avenue to pursue as well. Generally speaking, contracts like these have to be followed by all parties, so any material change made by either party (such as bringing the departure date forward by a day or changing the origin from Sydney to Brisbane) would constitute a breach and something the party making the change would be on the hook for.

More than any other poster on AFF in recent memory, you repeatedly share poor advice and misinformation, and have become infamous for doing so. Other members have already called you out on this but it needs to continue being called out as it's detrimental to both the poster asking the question and any lurkers who stumble upon this thread in a similar conundrum.

I think this is a matter of opinion more than misinformation or not. Some travellers on this forum are under the assumption that we are at the mercy of the airline and must take what is given to us even if it is a breach of contract and Australian consumer law. The problem with this approach is that it shifts all of the burden, all of the hassle caused by the airline onto the traveller. Worse, it encourages airlines to keep pursuing behaviour that is unlawful. On the other hand, I take a different tact and pursue my rights to the fullest extent of the law. If that means having to take the airline to an agency or court I will do so. Sure that may not sound like a friendly thing to do, and may even be a bit of a hassle, but I prefer it over the alternative.

-RooFlyer88

 

[sudoer]

Certainly an argument could be made that during a significant change like that the operating airline is on the hook to fix it. Now whether CI will offer a fix when the traveller contacts them is up for debate but that is also an avenue to pursue as well.

Once again, not what you said earlier - wasn't it simple to get QF to rebook you on their metal??

Generally speaking, contracts like these have to be followed by all parties, so any material change made by either party (such as bringing the departure date forward by a day or changing the origin from Sydney to Brisbane) would constitute a breach and something the party making the change would be on the hook for.

Yes, it's a breach of contract therefore a full refund would be offered.

I think this is a matter of opinion more than misinformation or not. Some travellers on this forum are under the assumption that we are at the mercy of the airline and must take what is given to us even if it is a breach of contract and Australian consumer law.

It's not a matter of opinion. The breach of contract by a partner airline (where Qantas is only acting as an agent) does not entitle one to demand Qantas opens seats on their own flights. The passenger is entitled to a full refund only. Please direct me to any legislation that states otherwise.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Once again, not what you said earlier - wasn't it simple to get QF to rebook you on their metal??

I said it was an option to resolve the matter. There are actually two parties that can be pursued here: the travel agency (Qantas) and the airline operating the flight (China Airlines). All I am saying are there are avenues they should try, first as it is infinitely more easy to get the airline to resolve the issue beforehand versus having to chase them after the fact.

Yes, it's a breach of contract therefore a full refund would be offered.

That's one potential remedy for a breach of contract, but certainly not the only remedy available to them. Providing alternate travel to the passenger is another such remedy available. And certainly if the traveller made any reliance on China Airlines providing the travel as contracted (i.e. booking hotels, tours) that would also be collectable.

It's not a matter of opinion. The breach of contract by a partner airline (where Qantas is only acting as an agent) does not entitle one to demand Qantas opens seats on their own flights. The passenger is entitled to a full refund only. Please direct me to any legislation that states otherwise.

Again, I never said Qantas is compelled to do so. I simply pointed out that it is an avenue worth exploring. Breach of contract has been something that has been adjudicated many times in courts of law not just in Australia but other Commonwealth realms, including travel disruptions for these. There have been cases where airlines were forced to reimburse passengers in the event of breach of contract. Speaking of Australian Consumer law specifically, here is what the ACCC has to say on the matter:

The consumer guarantee that services are provided within a reasonable time is especially relevant to travel services. When a travel service is delayed or cancelled, it may mean this guarantee has not been met, depending on:

• the length of the delay
• whether the delay or cancellation was within the travel service provider's control
• whether the travel service provider moved the consumer to a different service at an alternative time
• when that alternative service is.

If that replacement service is not within a reasonable time, the travel service provider must give the consumer their choice of a different replacement service or refund.

As you can see, it is always the consumer's choice whether they want a refund or a replacement service (and in most cases the replacement service makes sense since it'll cost more to book, especially at the last minute)

 

[sudoer]

it is always the consumer's choice whether they want a refund or a replacement service (and in most cases the replacement service makes sense since it'll cost more to book, especially at the last minute)

They've been offered a replacement service exactly per the ACCC excerpt.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

They've been offered a replacement service exactly per the ACCC excerpt.

If the rebooked service departs from a different airport and on a different date, does it qualify as a replacement service? To me this doesn’t qualify as a replacement service