Reduced AMEX earn rates from April 2019

[Chicken]

i suspect amex will lose a lot of customers and turnover from this, whether they care or not, who knows

Also, who knows if they want to market share or profitability? They are often contradictory towards the end, the last few % of the market often cost the most to get, and AmEx may say, let's force everyone to claim the points and get rid of all those who didn't want to, because people who use us to warehouse MR points are dragging down our revenue recognition, and revenue recognition is what matters.

 

[SuperSaeen]

Does anyone else think that the Amex Essential card is actually looking relatively attractive post the changes?

It’s going to earn 1.25 MR per dollar, which is actually more than the Edge earns on everyday spend. I am assessing whether to keep my Explorer, switch to an Edge or move to Essential. It’s hard to justify the $395/$195 fee just to earn a few more points on my spend. I know you get a travel credit with the Explorer and Edge but I never end up getting full value out of that.

I have been considering exactly this since the announcement.

The only issue with Essential is that the Visa/MC will earn a higher points per $. So the benefit of keeping the Amex will be minimal beyond the Amex offers.

I prefer the service offered by Amex by far over any other option in AU and the explorer travel insurance has come in clutch a few times for me... if only they had reduced the AF/Travel credit on explorer...

 

[Mr_Orange]

Does anyone else think that the Amex Essential card is actually looking relatively attractive post the changes?

It’s going to earn 1.25 MR per dollar, which is actually more than the Edge earns on everyday spend.

That equates to 0.625 airline miles which is not better than a VISA/MC. Throw in the Amex surcharges or non-acceptance and the only real benefit would be the statement credits and the smartphone screen insurance.

 

[theblank]

However, i do understand that if someone who spends $2k per month for 2 yrs gets a doubling offer whilst someone who spends $10k per month for 20 yrs doesnt, it does come across personal

I wouldnt be surprised if in large organisations like this, there are indicators on customer accounts that might reflect how much that customer is "liked". At NAB years ago, every marketing campaign the branches would have to vet the mailout list and cross out anyone we didnt want to receive the offers, for whatever reason. Thats now grossly innefficient so I imagine there would be automatic ways of doing this.

Its not only bad paying customers that are unliked, others can be serial pests, like too many complaints or 'negotiating' having annual fees waived per annum, just being a general wanker, or even those that are considered to be using a personal product for business purposes. Any of these and more could be flagged as 'do not give offers".

I am not saying AMEX thinks you a pest, but I agree, there has to be some logic behind their madness. Hey maybe they even want to get the points off their balance sheet!

 

[Valdek]

Agree, i am devastated by the changes as it means i probably will never fly F again unless i win lotto or find other means
But its their decision and they will deal with their actions.

However, i do understand that if someone who spends $2k per month for 2 yrs gets a doubling offer whilst someone who spends $10k per month for 20 yrs doesnt, it does come across personal

For example, i know some that spend 2 to 3k per month on here getting doubling offers whilst i spent more than 10x that and didnt get that offer, i do take personally

This is exactly my point. I am not angry with Amex because they are changing the general rules of their reward program. It is their decision and we can either accept it or leave AFTER it comes to effect. What I can NOT accept is introducing a typical soviet-type rule by halving existing savings accumulated over a long time with the exception to only some chosen cases and with no word of explanation given? - a big blow to their PR image and total loss of credentials. Would you be brave enough to have any trust in someone changing the rules and applying them not only to the future but to the past as well? It clearly shows they can do anything they want in the future as they have become unpredictable. How about cancelling all the rewards at some point for everybody without any compensation? Once you allow to be treated not as a human being but as an Excel number you must be prepared to become one. I find it disturbing.

 

[Chicken]

What I can NOT accept is introducing a typical soviet-type rule by halving existing savings accumulated over a long time with the exception to only some chosen cases and with no word of explanation given?

How did this get to USSR from rewards point?

Not only this is OK in T&C, but remember that, your points are liabilities to them.

Your employer can say to you, I am sick of you accumulating annual leave, you either take them so you get paid your salary + super, or I am just going to pay it out as cash and you lose the super portion of your annual leave.

You bought a phone and Samsung say you get a headset for free; but you just let the headset sit for years and not claim it. Samsung can say, claim it now or you lose it.

Would you be brave enough to have any trust in someone changing the rules and applying them not only to the future but to the past as well?

Your dentist can say, I have not been charging you for X ray because you come every 6 months; but I can't do that anymore, so you can come back within 3 months to get free x ray, no more free x ray after.

How about cancelling all the rewards at some point for everybody without any compensation?

They can, which is why, the T&C from banks and etc always specifically states that there is no monetary value on points.

Once you allow to be treated not as a human being but as an Excel number you must be prepared to become one. I find it disturbing

It maybe to you, but spending 90% of my working life in large multinationals, and working with business rules and data, I can tell you that, all of us are just a row in Excel half the time, and the other half of the time? You are just another entry in "raw data" which gets converted by some BI tool into a line or donut chart, you don't even get to see daylight. You at least see some daylight if you are a row in Excel, as you can get picked up by 'something' and you get categorised.

Oh, and you are also just a number to your employer. If you are of no use, or the company is in trouble, you will get kicked out, regardless of how good you have been to your employer.

You are nobody, I am nobody, and 100% nobody to AmEx. If you have a RM, the RM is only nice to you because s/he is relying on your spend to keep his/her monthly bonus. They are not there to be nice to you because it is nice to be nice to you.

Hence, back to my point. There is no point to take these personal. You don't take your fry pan personal. You don't take your hot water system personal when it gives you cold shower. Most people don't even take their laptop computer personal. So why take some computer CRM personal? It makes no sense.

It is not worth killing your own body cells and give yourself stress and cancer for some computer software. Give loyalty to people that matter to you, like people you love, not to some computer data mining BI (BS) tool.

 

[SOPOOR]

How did this get to USSR from rewards point?

Not only this is OK in T&C, but remember that, your points are liabilities to them.

Your employer can say to you, I am sick of you accumulating annual leave, you either take them so you get paid your salary + super, or I am just going to pay it out as cash and you lose the super portion of your annual leave.

You bought a phone and Samsung say you get a headset for free; but you just let the headset sit for years and not claim it. Samsung can say, claim it now or you lose it.



Your dentist can say, I have not been charging you for X ray because you come every 6 months; but I can't do that anymore, so you can come back within 3 months to get free x ray, no more free x ray after.



They can, which is why, the T&C from banks and etc always specifically states that there is no monetary value on points.



It maybe to you, but spending 90% of my working life in large multinationals, and working with business rules and data, I can tell you that, all of us are just a row in Excel half the time, and the other half of the time? You are just another entry in "raw data" which gets converted by some BI tool into a line or donut chart, you don't even get to see daylight. You at least see some daylight if you are a row in Excel, as you can get picked up by 'something' and you get categorised.

Oh, and you are also just a number to your employer. If you are of no use, or the company is in trouble, you will get kicked out, regardless of how good you have been to your employer.

You are nobody, I am nobody, and 100% nobody to AmEx. If you have a RM, the RM is only nice to you because s/he is relying on your spend to keep his/her monthly bonus. They are not there to be nice to you because it is nice to be nice to you.

Hence, back to my point. There is no point to take these personal. You don't take your fry pan personal. You don't take your hot water system personal when it gives you cold shower. Most people don't even take their laptop computer personal. So why take some computer CRM personal? It makes no sense.

It is not worth killing your own body cells and give yourself stress and cancer for some computer software. Give loyalty to people that matter to you, like people you love, not to some computer data mining BI (BS) tool.

im going to get a lot of disagreement here, but I think that being forced to take annual leave because it suits the business is not on,

its something you earnt, and somethign you should be able to spend at will,
it shouldnt be a liability for the business because it should be already accounted for, and/or put in a trust that cant be accessed if the company folds (obviously thats not how the real world works), but its only a step away from being told by your employer how to spend your salary

 

[Chicken]

im going to get a lot of disagreement here, but I think that being forced to take annual leave because it suits the business is not on,

its something you earnt, and somethign you should be able to spend at will,

I didn't say forced to take annual leave (I don't particularly agree with this)

I said, you accumulate too much leave, and your employer then say it will get paid out one way or the other.

it shouldnt be a liability for the business because it should be already accounted for

I'm not arguing, I actually agree with you philosophically; but I'm simply stating the current situation.

It is not a liability, when you have successfully lobbied to have accounting standard changed.

(No I'm not an accountant, nor do I have particularly positive view on accountants, but that doesn't stop me from acknowledging the current reality)

 

[woodborer]

im going to get a lot of disagreement here, but I think that being forced to take annual leave because it suits the business is not on,

Although, rather surprisingly maybe, the term 'annual leave' does hint at its purpose!

 

[DC3]

Although, rather surprisingly maybe, the term 'annual leave' does hint at its purpose!

Well, my recreational leave is accrued annually and is taken as I need it. Maybe others don't have it that easy.

And, in some workplaces it is called recreational leave, not annual leave.

Also, I agree with Chicken that we are all just a number. Nothing else.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

i suspect amex will lose a lot of customers and turnover from this,

Why?


Those not interested in points will stay.

Those interested in points will find other alternatives will earn less points.

The turnover part may drop from those manufacturing points. If the enablers can find ways to reduce their fees that may not occur.

Personally I suspect Amex will have run the numbers and know that for many that they will still earn more points than their competitors. VISA/MC earn has been slashed and so in this competitive world Amex did not need to be as generous as they once were.

Amex may lose some, but offsetting this their cost in buying points from airlines will plummet.

 

[theblank]

im going to get a lot of disagreement here, but I think that being forced to take annual leave because it suits the business is not on,

Its not really something that matters if its disagreed with. its written up in many employment contracts that it should be taken annually, worded something like if not taken within 12 months of accrual then they can force you to take it within 3 months. All 4 employment contracts that I have had in my lifetime had a similarly worded policy, and the way HR dept enforced it varied by the person and the season. (all non govt, I know of a few government worker that had no limits to accrued annual leave for almost ever)

It comes down to a companies balance sheet, its prudent management to keep the liability low. I would be surprised if any private company actually permits unlimited annual leave accruals.

 

[Daver6]

From speaking to a friend who is an HR expert, I don't believe they can force you to have your leave paid out if you don't agree to it. This was her view.

 

[cvmceg]

1) You are just a number to them and loyalty is long dead

2) Without going in to too much detail, if amex are smart, (Have good reason to believe that they are) They will have a primary goal of increasing customer numbers.

This is unlikely to be a profit play nor market share play, if it is then its dumb short-termism.

 

[theblank]

From speaking to a friend who is an HR expert, I don't believe they can force you to have your leave paid out if you don't agree to it. This was her view.

thats absolutely correct. Paying out AL has always been optional at the employees discretion if available.
Howevert hey can require you to take the annual leave, its in the contract.

 

[Daver6]

thats absolutely correct. Paying out AL has always been optional at the employees discretion if available.
Howevert hey can require you to take the annual leave, its in the contract.

Just because something is in the contract doesn't make it legal or enforceable. Again, as told by someone who is an expert in the field, they can require you to take leave during a company shut down for example. However, if you've accrued a lot of leave, they can't force you to just take it or force you to have it paid out.

 

[DC3]

From speaking to a friend who is an HR expert, I don't believe they can force you to have your leave paid out if you don't agree to it. This was her view.

Yes, usually by mutual agreement. However, the employer is mostly calling the shots (Most of us want to keep our jobs)

 

[Steady]

Speaking of the Amex devaluation......
Welcome to the Fair Work Ombudsman website

 

[michael65]

Certainly from April, AMEX will have a lot less spend on their Edge card for all other expenses other than supermarkets and petrol, as the FF per $ reduces to 0.5 per $. You can get better from a bank Visa or Mastercard. The supermarket and petrol will only earn 1.5 points per $, so I wonder if it is that worthwhile to keep it. I suspect I will transfer my accumulated MR points to Krisflyer and Velocity and then cancel the card. My wife has a Qantas Ultimate which will earn 1.25 Qantas Points per $1, so we may keep that. After 18 months I may get another AMEX card with a large points bonus

 

[theblank]

You can get better from a bank Visa or Mastercard.

As it stands now, yes you can get better than 0.5ppd, but at an increased the Annual fee cost, that will likely cancel out any benefit you might earn.

then you also havent taken into account the likely future devaluation of the Visa/MC earn/redemption rates.