Rewarding Long Term Frequent Flyer Loyalty

[RichardMEL]

Thank you RichardMEL, there are a lot of good ideas here. Does anyone know if Qantas ever reads what is posted?

They absolutely used to. These days, it's uncertain. Though I would believe various lurkers would unofficially read these boards from time to time with various levels of interest/intent, though I have no proof. It would be foolish to assume nobody from the company reads these forums.

However the likely effect of posting here is probably minimal, specially with this sort of thread.

I do feel strongly about this because we are bout to hit the golden years of lots of self funded leisure travel and our value as a client is still high - just temporary blips for self evident reasons at the moment. So in the end we could claw our way back in a year or 2. They are silly to allow us to taste the forbidden fruits as we may, according to folk lore, find something we like a whole lot better and never really return.

And that's your right as consumers. Perhaps the "trap" is your own, long standing and very normal wish to stick with a fmiliar and known brand like QF.. However there are many other options out there, and with where you are at perhaaps this is the time to explore.

And, your LTG will still be there.. who knows QF may change T&C in 18 months and introduce more rewards for high LTSC earners (ilikely but you never know). You can always come back if you choose. Yes you'd have to start with Gold, but is that REALLY such a horrible base to have? I men yes we do get used to the perks of Plat, F lounges, J lounges, upgrade priority and all that, but Gold is NOT a horrid place to be.

I mean sorry I mean no offence but in some ways you're coming across as a bit entitled while suggesting QF offers nothing to the long term "loyal" - yet they do in the form of LTS and LTG. Yes, I get it... earning way more SC that gives nothing more seems a waste and like they give you nothing MORE... and many of us in similar situations would adore LTP or similar. The reason many have moved to other options is a reality that QF is not interested in such things... and there's nothing wrong with taking business elsewhere.

Also there is an AFF member who claims to have well over 90,000 LTSC. Imagine how that person feels? Probably sick of aircraft seats and food

I mean what is the reasons you WANT to fly QF more? Convenience? Product? Schedule/destinations? Alliance Partners?

But my real point is that long term loyalty apparently counts for little. I feel the same way when banks, phone companies and utilities companies offer discounts and better plans for new customers and ignore the need to reward those who have been loyal for years.

For example, in almost every year of my 16 years of WP or P1, I have had excess status credits, but that doesn’t amount to anything either, on top of the more than double LTG credits.

And, until you reached LTG they absolutely went towards something - the LTSC count.

You're not asking unreasonable questions, but by the same token, you can get back to WP as you say, and if it takes a year or so then well.. is Gold REALLY that bad? and if you can afford J fares, then the whole conversation is more or less irrelevant imho

Agan, I am sorry for the loss of your father and the trips you've had to cancel and so on. That's the most important thing.

Going forward you and your hubby have choices to make.. and luckily it's almost certain you have many choices. That doesn't have to be a bad thing

 

[RichardMEL]

Thanks Flying Fox. What is the 3 year rule please? The person I spoke to when I cancelled our flights was polite and helpful, but would not discuss anything to do with FF status. I’ve never heard of the 3 year rule, probably because I always have met the requal requirements. My membership year is coming up soon. My hubby’s has already finished, and he was not offered anything.

Well a reservations agent would have zero to do with QFF and have little knowledge.

Also the "3 year rule" is/was an unwritten or at least more or less unacknowledged rule outside of QFF.

Basically the idea was that in terms of offering comp status renewals QF used to take into account the previous 3 years of SC activity and, in general, it was understood if one had an average earn of 1200 SC for those 3 years (ie: earned enough to retain WP) they would gift another year. There was probably also a n appropriate level for Gold and Silver also. Comps were/are never given to P1.. that is a very "hard" target and even if you make 3599 then tough luck.

However as discussed, it seems the "comp status renewal" has all but gone the way of Ansett and thus the 3 year rule as it is known is more or less not a thing any more.

 

[RooFlyer]

Agree; the '3 year rule' is as good as dead, although reported to still apply in certain, rare cases. Not to be relied on and a red herring as far as this discussion is concerned.

 

[dajop]

This is probably a cost QF don't see benefit in, specially if they all go off and fly CX and spend heaps of times in the CX F lounges costing QF real dosh....

is a system of incentives that both rewards long term flyers but keeps them coming back majority to QF

Maybe something like a LTG+ status attained on QF status credits, that provides equivalent benefits to Platinum when travelling on QF flights* but only comes with OW Sapphire - not OW Emerald status.

* and maybe extend to Jetstar and joint venture routes/partners (where revenue on a route is shared)

 

[oz_mark]

In one forum I attended, I asked about Lifetime Status (a general question), and was told that there were actual real costs associated with providing it for a lifetime. So, I don't think that Lifetime Platinum will happen any time soon.

Also, I wonder how many people get to 28,000 SC on their own dime?

 

[juddles]

.... They don’t seem to have heard that it costs more to get a new customer than to retain one.....

I am another person who attained LTG and is frustrated that the rest of my SC mean nothing. I do understand that angst and wish there was LTP or other benefits. But I understand it. QF has decided that they do not need to offer more.

They are not a charity, they do not exist to make people feel valued customers. That is consumer-thought nonsense. they are a business.

Have they "heard that it costs more to get a new customer to retain one"?? Again, they are a company. A huge one in a very competitive market. They will have the best staff they can doing the best research they can to make the business float. I suspect there is probably not a single member of their planning team who has NOT heard that old quote. They make decisions upon what they deem is best. And they are professionals. We are all but arm-chair warriors

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Have they "heard that it costs more to get a new customer to retain one"?? Again, they are a company. A huge one in a very competitive market. They will have the best staff they can doing the best research they can to make the business float. I suspect there is probably not a single member of their planning team who has NOT heard that old quote. They make decisions upon what they deem is best. And they are professionals. We are all but arm-chair warriors

Look at it from QFF perspective.

Qantas has near domination on the Australian market.
... is hugely profitable.
... Loyalty has 4x higher billings than Velocity
... has a strong brand
... is a poster child model which other FFPs copy
... works.

Loyalty programs are designed specifically NOT to cater for everyone, but rather, only for a segment of the population who see value in the program. You're coming to a point in your life where the value proposition no longer makes sense - and that's okay - we can't all be ultra-frequent flyers our entire lives.

Now consider the following:

• 28,000 status credits are not the norm. Your activity would be considered an outlier.
• There is an argument that you've received 15+ years of benefits already.
• You are Lifetime Gold.
• All the benefits/extra gifts/privileges/free upgrades you've received over the years which are only by virtue of Plat/Plat One.

Does Qantas want everyone as a customer? No
Does Qantas want the right customers? Yes
Does Qantas care about past loyalty? Yes
Does Qantas have a mechanism in place to recognise past loyalty? Yes and No, and do they need to given sheer dominance in the market(?)
Would Lifetime Platinum make you feel better? Maybe, Maybe not
... but if so, would introducing Lifetime Platinum cost or generate more revenue for QF? 100% depends on the activity of members who may qualify under any proposed Lifetime Platinum rules. If these members are heavy international travellers (especially in economy class), it could cost QF a fortune. How much spend-up would it generate from existing members? How much spend-down would there be? Would it make Platinum One less attractive? What pax would the introduction of a new benefit bring from the competition? Would other airlines in the region copy the benefit and what impact would that have on initial analysis? What other member behavioural impact might it generate? What uplift of LTG vs LTP would exist on bank points conversions? Additional revenue impact from QF on Platinum points bonuses.... and lots more to consider.

Frankly - there is a risk in introduction Lifetime Platinum. Sure - BA and AY might have it - but that is a different market and they have their own challenges. Neither of those carriers has a captive market, interchange is shot to shreds, massive competition, lower margins, high pressure on yield and strong dependence on ancillary. It's a totally different ballgame in Europe that affects airline economics.

Sure, Qantas could do something special for you if you're coming into 'passenger retirement' as recognition of a lifetime of years. What that special thing is for you, will be different for everyone.

Perhaps QF could introduce a Loyalty Retirement benefit. So long as you've earned over 25,000 status credits and you don't plan on earning Platinum ever again - QF Loyalty could have a special team that curates extended special experiences to create 'money can't buy' memories that will live on forever in your heart.

Thoughts, Qantas?

 

[Pushka]

Does anyone know what happens with those CL members who leave from the organisation that provided them with that entitlement?

 

[serfty]

Does anyone know what happens with those CL members who leave from the organisation that provided them with that entitlement?

They soft land to WP?

 

[Pushka]

They soft land to WP?

For a year maybe then gold? They’ve probably accumulated enough SC for LTG.

 

[drron]

For a year maybe then gold? They’ve probably accumulated enough SC for LTG.

Not necessarily.The only CL I know well would not have reached even LTS but the company he worked for was a Fortune 500 company and had a huge travel budget.He had similiar recognition from AA,LH,EK,SQ that I know of.

 

[Pushka]

Not necessarily.The only CL I know well would not have reached even LTS but the company he worked for was a Fortune 500 company and had a huge travel budget.He had similiar recognition from AA,LH,EK,SQ that I know of.

So leaving would be a significant fall. Shame. Not.

 

[drron]

I dont think he's worried.A really nice guy though.

 

[burmans]

But my real point is that long term loyalty apparently counts for little. I feel the same way when banks, phone companies and utilities companies offer discounts and better plans for new customers and ignore the need to reward those who have been loyal for years.

One of the keys to success in life, in my view, is the ability to deal with life as it is rather than how you want it to be. There are good reasons companies do this, mainly lated to the inertia of people, i.e. you have to work harder to attract a customer than to keep a customet.

But regardless, thats how it is, it's unlikely to change and it is in my view much smarter to use this to our advantage than to spend time obsessing over something you can't and won't change.

 

[Pushka]

One of the keys to success in life, in my view, is the ability to deal with life as it is rather than how you want it to be. There are good reasons companies do this, mainly lated to the inertia of people, i.e. you have to work harder to attract a customer than to keep a customet.

But regardless, thats how it is, it's unlikely to change and it is in my view much smarter to use this to our advantage than to spend time obsessing over something you can't and won't change.

Ah, there’s a NY resolution for me to try. I like it.

 

[Pleb Status]

Should not the reward for 'loyalty' be QF offering a high level of service for the best price?

If QF offered the above, this thread would be generally redundant as we would all want to fly QF no matter what the long term incentives are to do so (LTG/LTP for example).

The problem is QF generally offers an 'average' level of service at a high price.

So the real issue hiding behind this thread (and the similar LTP threads) is trying to justify someone's previous and future overspend on QF when better and cheaper alternatives are available. I know this to be the case as I have had to do this myself.

However, even if QF offered me LTP today, it would not change my domestic flying in the short to medium term. The added benefits domestically of QF LTP over QF LTG are not enough to offset the additional cost and the reduced product I would receive by moving my travel back to QF.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

One of the keys to success in life, in my view, is the ability to deal with life as it is rather than how you want it to be. There are good reasons companies do this, mainly lated to the inertia of people, i.e. you have to work harder to attract a customer than to keep a customer.

But regardless, thats how it is, it's unlikely to change and it is in my view much smarter to use this to our advantage than to spend time obsessing over something you can't and won't change.

Fully agree.

Also on Loyalty Programs:
- always remember that they are actually not really to do with loyalty, but are marketing programs. Some are better than others, but at the end of the day being called Loyalty is really just part of the marketing.
- they are normally some form of ego stroking or discounts for buying more often. So if I can gain the goods and/or services I want at a lower price or better quality from another business I do. However service delivery and customer experience can influence some of my purchases. My time is important to me and so is part of my decision process.
- the only loyalty that I am focused on what is good for myself, my friends and my family (Well probably my football club too!!). Loyalty Programs can be part of achieving my purposes, but when it comes to Airline Loyalty Programs for my purposes I am not loyal to any one airline.

 

[RichardMEL]

For the record all my 29,000+ LTSC's have been self funded. There are others.

 

[Seat0B]

One of the keys to success in life, in my view, is the ability to deal with life as it is rather than how you want it to be. There are good reasons companies do this, mainly lated to the inertia of people, i.e. you have to work harder to attract a customer than to keep a customet.

But regardless, thats how it is, it's unlikely to change and it is in my view much smarter to use this to our advantage than to spend time obsessing over something you can't and won't change.

I know you have a point Burmans. Sorry if it looks like I was obsessing - more a bit of a rant/vent than an obsession for me.

 

[samh004]

However, I feel rather disrespected. I’ve shown a lot of loyalty to this airline (more than double the status credits required to achieve LTG) for no further recognition.

No disrespect to you – I too will eventually be in a similar situation – but the two lifetime levels are written into their terms, so they have provided the respect they should have based on those terms. Why should they extend more to you, especially as it has not been written into their terms? They have fulfilled their end of the agreement.