Rewarding Long Term Frequent Flyer Loyalty

[CaptJCool]

Come live in Adelaide where the only lounge provides no extra WP benefits

So LTG suits just fine

 

[Seat0B]

No disrespect to you – I too will eventually be in a similar situation – but the two lifetime levels are written into their terms, so they have provided the respect they should have based on those terms. Why should they extend more to you, especially as it has not been written into their terms? They have fulfilled their end of the agreement.

I get it Samh004, but your view implies that Qantas should never "improve" the FF system ie the rules are in stone and should never change. They've changed before eg pregnancy status pause, and the introduction of P1, so I don't see why they should not hear the views for change of other FF members. If we don;t express our vies, they may think we are happy!

 

[trippin_the_rift]

...<awesome text snipped>...
Frankly - there is a risk in introduction Lifetime Platinum. Sure - BA and AY might have it - but that is a different market and they have their own challenges. Neither of those carriers has a captive market, interchange is shot to shreds, massive competition, lower margins, high pressure on yield and strong dependence on ancillary. It's a totally different ballgame in Europe that affects airline economics.

Sure, Qantas could do something special for you if you're coming into 'passenger retirement' as recognition of a lifetime of years. What that special thing is for you, will be different for everyone.

Perhaps QF could introduce a Loyalty Retirement benefit. So long as you've earned over 25,000 status credits and you don't plan on earning Platinum ever again - QF Loyalty could have a special team that curates extended special experiences to create 'money can't buy' memories that will live on forever in your heart.

Thoughts, Qantas?

In the short term - in my opinion, the best move QF Loyalty could make is to introduce a new benefit for LTG members.
That being - each membership year, the member receives 700 status credits into their account.

- Recognises Loyalty with no cash outlay from QF
- Creates new valued based benefit to the member
- Re-engages the members who disconnected from the program once hitting LTG (seems to be a lot based on those I speak with)
- Members who would otherwise average around 1,200 SC/year suddenly are on 1,900 SC/year and have reason to 'spend up' to reach the next bonus threshold.
- Increase allure of LTG and would encourage a few non-LTG to 'spend-up' faster

Cost of implementing the proposed benefit:
- A few powerpoint presentations
- Technical/LMS man-days
- Minor changes to communication material
- Contact centre training & memo updates

Non-financial benefits
- Innovation/more rewarding proposition
- Increase program attractiveness to high-value flyers

Risks & Mitigation Strategy:
- Lifetime rules / park it under OW exemption
- Revenue accounting if Status Credits have cross charge costs / Award as a bonus on 1st ~QF flight of their membership year. Potentially post amortization. The hard cost technically doesn't exist so can find a way around this problem
- Potential ticket revenue cannibalization / offset by spend-up and revenue protection of high-value members
- Other programs will copy / Get in first

Damn, I'm good at this. I should run a frequent flyer program ;p

 

[UP4014]

Does anyone know what happens with those CL members who leave from the organisation that provided them with that entitlement?

It's cancelled as soon as QF are aware. I will try and remember to check what hapoens to their status and report back.

 

[kpc]

In the short term - in my opinion, the best move QF Loyalty could make is to introduce a new benefit for LTG members.
That being - each membership year, the member receives 700 status credits into their account.

- Recognises Loyalty with no cash outlay from QF
- Creates new valued based benefit to the member
- Re-engages the members who disconnected from the program once hitting LTG (seems to be a lot based on those I speak with)
- Members who would otherwise average around 1,200 SC/year suddenly are on 1,900 SC/year and have reason to 'spend up' to reach the next bonus threshold.

Damn, I'm good at this. I should run a frequent flyer program! ;p

....but that means you only need 500 SCs to retain Plat....and that will come at a cost to QF!!...ps I would LOVE it if QF adopts your suggestion but can't see it ever happening!

 

[woodborer]

Damn, I'm good at this. I should run a frequent flyer program! ;p

Or consult to them ;p

 

[trippin_the_rift]

....but that means you only need 500 SCs to retain Plat....and that will come at a cost to QF!!...ps I would LOVE it if QF adopts your suggestion but can't see it ever happening!

Edited my last post with updated benefits and logic behind each approach.
Another way to look at it is this: Pretend QF gave a perpetual Gold membership to a celebrity. That celeb might do 300-400 status credits annually. Those status credits are effectively wasted because they're going to be comp'd with Gold each year anyway. There is no reason to strive towards Platinum since it requires the full 1,400. If anything - it creates a disconnect in the member behaviour and the program design.

Or consult to them ;p

Waiting for my invitation. Shoot me a PM, Olivia!

 

[UP4014]

As others have said, you get free booze for 20 years of LTG that's pretty good in my view and lounge access in out of the way places even if you only fly once per year.

The LTG is your recognition which is more than Virgin hand out.

Perhaps the view that 'if they don't give me more I'll go somewhere else' confirms QF are doing it right in capping life time membership to gold.

As if you aren't flying so much and still want more than gold then as people here have said, buy J or go elsewhere and see how that works for you.

Changing airlines might for you and please give it go and report back how some of the flights have gone, how you were treated and what loyalty the airline has given you. We are always interested on this site.

 

[mannej]

I get it Samh004, but your view implies that Qantas should never "improve" the FF system ie the rules are in stone and should never change. They've changed before eg pregnancy status pause, and the introduction of P1, so I don't see why they should not hear the views for change of other FF members. If we don;t express our vies, they may think we are happy!

QF is aware of the calls for LTP to be introduced, and have been for a number of years now.

 

[burmans]

I know you have a point Burmans. Sorry if it looks like I was obsessing - more a bit of a rant/vent than an obsession for me.

No need to be sorry, I can't pretend I've never done the rant/vent bit myself from time to time. But I do make a conscious effort to get over it much faster these days and would have to say in general I enjoy life more when I'm succesful so am motivated to keep doing this.

 

[drron]

As others have said, you get free booze for 20 years of LTG that's pretty good in my view and lounge access in out of the way places even if you only fly once per year.

The LTG is your recognition which is more than Virgin hand out.

Perhaps the view that 'if they don't give me more I'll go somewhere else' confirms QF are doing it right in capping life time membership to gold.

As if you aren't flying so much and still want more than gold then as people here have said, buy J or go elsewhere and see how that works for you.

Changing airlines might for you and please give it go and report back how some of the flights have gone, how you were treated and what loyalty the airline has given you. We are always interested on this site.

Worked for me.I realised that with Aadvantage I would reach LT OWS much quicker than with QF.Indeed reached LTP with AA in 2011 whilst mrsdrron who does exactly the same longhaul flights and slightly more domestic sectors than me only reached LTG 15 months ago.Sadly that opportunity has now gone.But I was treated a lot better at AA than mrsdrron at QF despite her being WP for the majority of years whilst I only made EXP twice.
Sure AA is no longer the best program so now I have jumped to BAEC.Again easier for us to to BAEC gold than even requalifying WP for mrsdrron.Loyalty hasn't really been tested but when the IFE didn't work on 1 sector I got 15000 avios without asking.As for flights we fly BA F for less than QF J.
Not missing QFF.

 

[TonyHancock]

This is always an interesting topic for me. I wonder where the value is for an airline in offering Lifetime Status. I'm QF LTG (31K+ SC's not self funded, but I am not sure that is at all relevant. ) and have switched programs. It has only really been in the last couple of years that I have realised that BA LTG is more than just a possibility and looking like a probability this year. (I just crossed 33k TP's today)

My travel will wind down at the end of this year so what will BA get out of me? I haven't even thought about where I will credit flights once I hit BA LTG and am no longer racking up 9k TP's a year. My travel will become "normal" - a couple of trips a year maybe and (shock, horror) self funded. (Nope still not seeing the relevance ) I quite like TTR's 700SC year starter proposition for QF LTG and that may well keep me interested in QF.....if only for arrivals access at domestic lounges.

I will have the satisfaction of F lounge access and OWE benefits and I will enjoy them. I assume BA will be paying for that, but I am probably not likely to be flying BA. (Once the Avios run out of course)

I have said it before and will say it again, QF is a business and LTG is a business proposition, loyalty does not come into it. I am not loyal to any program, my goal is to maximise the benefits of any program for me. The moment anyone believes in being loyal to an airline the marketing peeps at that airline will be rubbing their hands with delight. (Not always my view, something learnt over many years. )

 

[Seat0B]

Edited my last post with updated benefits and logic behind each approach.
Another way to look at it is this: Pretend QF gave a perpetual Gold membership to a celebrity. That celeb might do 300-400 status credits annually. Those status credits are effectively wasted because they're going to be comp'd with Gold each year anyway. There is no reason to strive towards Platinum since it requires the full 1,400. If anything - it creates a disconnect in the member behaviour and the program design.



Waiting for my invitation. Shoot me a PM, Olivia!

Yes, that’s what I’m talking about trippin_the_rift. I am about to disengage exactly as you outline because of the perverse incentive.

 

[cvmceg]

How exactly do you all define 'loyalty' ???
... how you and QF define it might differ.

 

[woodborer]

How exactly do you all define 'loyalty' ???
... it matters.

Loyalty is a marketing term. Don't get hung up on it!

 

[cvmceg]

Loyalty is a marketing term. Don't get hung up on it!

I'm not hung up on it

edit. and I work in marketing

 

[trippin_the_rift]

How exactly do you all define 'loyalty' ???
... how you and QF define it might differ.

I'll bite.

QF Airways: Consistent patronage of high yield airline tickets on QF flights.
QF Loyalty: (1) Engagement with QFF partners (eg: banks, and including QF Loyalty sub-businesses), (2) Using QF points, (3) Flying on QF/Oneworld/Partner Airlines
Status QF Loyalty member: Frequency of flights and/or elite status level and tenure of that tier
Non-status QF Loyalty member: Number of years of being a member in QF Loyalty program and/or share of available flight spend directed to QF

There is no single correct answer to 'how do you define loyalty'. Everyone is correct.

How each of these parties measure loyalty is another conversation.

 

[cvmceg]

I'll bite.

QF Airways: Consistent patronage of high yield airline tickets on QF flights.
QF Loyalty: (1) Engagement with QFF partners (eg: banks, and including QF Loyalty sub-businesses), (2) Using QF points, (3) Flying on QF/Oneworld/Partner Airlines
Status QF Loyalty member: Frequency of flights and/or elite status level and tenure of that tier
Non-status QF Loyalty member: Number of years of being a member in QF Loyalty program and/or share of available flight spend directed to QF

There is no single correct answer to 'how do you define loyalty'. Everyone is correct.

How each of these parties measure loyalty is another conversation.

I appreciate the reply, thanks.

I agree that there is no single correct answer. Similarly, there are multiple ways of measuring loyalty.

This makes discussion on what people think they deserve a little difficult.

 

[leadman]

I've thought for a long time now that Qantas has mastered the "boiled frog" scenario, right down to making it a fine art. I'm sure the QFF master plan is how much can we squeeze the pleb's before we start losing them. They have over time made the subtle and "not so subtle" changes but because of our perceived loyalty we stick with them. We can all list the many changes that have occurred but QF lost me when they first went to from 2100 to 2400 to get the partner Gold, and then last year changed it to only QF/JQ flights. Slow methodical boiling of the frog to the point where we stay. It was the one nice thing i could give Mrs leadman (plane related) for all the absence overseas. The frog was pronounced dead at that point; could not even be resuscitated. Dead......finished........ (parrot sketch ring a bell to anyone!!!)

My loyalty to QF is now easy to define, 1,200 SC! My loyalty matches QF's loyalty and the rest of the business goes elsewhere.

And even then this term I had 1010 SC up without travelling QF metal. I've just on 56,000 SC's and look back thinking what/where i could have flown better, but StarAll is gold, so now i have to work on Delta. I've mentioned a couple of times here, but my most valuable card is Life Pt with Marriott/SPG. By far and away better at looking after their members and my nights last year would have not made Ag normally, but they were still superb, every stay an upgrade.

 

[UP4014]

Funny how people complain about QF pushing the boundaries on prices, every business surely changes the maximum they can.

QF and the QFF are a premium product like it or not therefore they can charge a premium and know precisely how much the market will bear like all premium items.