Rewarding Long Term Frequent Flyer Loyalty

[RichardMEL]

You could well be right what with QF metal disappearing from a number of international routes and many new entrants....

 

[serfty]

I thought is was under 20% and falling.

Qantas Group had 26.5% of International PAX traffic in October 2018. (17.8% QF, 8.7% Jetstar)

This is an increase from October 2017 - 25.8% (QF 16.8% and Jetstar 9%).

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/files/International_airline_activity_1810.pdf

Note that there were 62 individual carriers transporting PAX to/From Oz in the 12 months up to and including October 2018.

International airline activity

 

[drron]

A year ago the totals for QF were BNE-17.8%,MEL-15.5% and SYD-24.5%.
https://bitre.gov.au/publications/o...onal_airline_activity_OpFltsSeats_2017-18.pdf

PS-not counting JQ.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Does anyone know what happens with those CL members who leave from the organisation that provided them with that entitlement?

they go down the tiers like everyone else. I have a friend who was CL and also LTG, he went to Platinum and is now Gold. Might have retained platinum for a few years.

 

[kermatu]

True. I also believe one too manY CL's abused this way too much which led to them losing anytime access last year.

As with anything in the Frequent Flyer game - leave a door slightly ajar, and people will start driving trucks through it.

QF only has itself to blame for the lunacy of the CL benefits. Anytime access for one, but allowing international passengers flying out of SYD or MEL to access the QF F lounges when flying on non-OW airlines has to take the cake. Great incentive to fly QF. Don't know what muppet allowed that!

 

[kermatu]

they go down the tiers like everyone else. I have a friend who was CL and also LTG, he went to Platinum and is now Gold. Might have retained platinum for a few years.

After 2 years according to several friends and ex-colleagues.

 

[whughes3]

QF only has itself to blame for the lunacy of the CL benefits. Anytime access for one, but allowing international passengers flying out of SYD or MEL to access the QF F lounges when flying on non-OW airlines has to take the cake. Great incentive to fly QF. Don't know what muppet allowed that!

Anytime access for CL's was dumped some time ago; there is a thread about it.
No more "anytime access" for CL's

 

[kermatu]

Anytime access for CL's was dumped some time ago; there is a thread about it.
No more "anytime access" for CL's

Yes, as has the access to F lounges irrespective of airline flown. I was just making the point how stupid the benefits have been.

 

[Pat2065]

This thread has brought up my two favourite QF topics - life after Platinum and self-funded loyalty. Like the original post, my husband and I have both been Platinum continually for many years and both are LTG.

We travel for pleasure enough each year at our personal expense to keep this status, with my husband also having additional work travel. I have been self-employed with little relevant travel - maybe a couple of interstate trips a year.

We are retiring and will keep travelling (always in J) but probably will take fewer, but longer trips, in the future and it is possible that our Platinum status might lapse on occasion and we'll be dropped to Gold. While we would certainly maintain Gold annually anyway, LTG is security. However, we have no incentive to fly QF or OW at all if we lose Platinum. And QF's business product is inferior to many other airlines which also works against loyalty. We now choose the airline with the best deal and build a Star Alliance portfolio.

QF probably does not need to do too much to keep my loyalty but doing nothing may kill it. They could offer some benefits based on years of being a Platinum and/or achieving LTG. It could be needing a lower annual points to qualify for Platinum (say, 800 rather than 1200) if LTG. Or, 'earn' a Platinum benefit (e.g. access to F lounges, 150% points, or access to request for FF seats) after maybe each 5 consecutive Platinum years that could be used for a period of time (minimum year) after losing Platinum.

Self-funding is a messy issue, I know, but valid. I have asked many people why they fly QF and the most common response is that they don't 'choose'. It is just what their company books or has a deal with. The loyalty is with the company and they should be getting the benefits, not the individual. I know of cases of QF Platinums where their company use QF for them but they book other airlines for their personal travel to cover their bases with status in both One World and Star Alliance.

On the other side, self-funded non-business travellers who have made it to Platinum or LTG are truly loyal but get no recognition for it, despite always making a choice and using their own money to pay for it.

 

[redrat]

22 years of traveling and 34.5k SC with QF. I have been on a declining travel schedule for business and at 194cm tall (forget the girth size for the moment) am not enjoying it so much anymore. QF tell me I’m a valued reviewer of their services and I can state there was zero offering from them as I reverted back to Gold. In times past they used to offer a complimentary Year but since the higher tiers came into play nada now. Lots of what Platinums enjoy today in economy, I suggested to happen in the surveys. eg. singled out for recognition, headsets from Business class, drinks from business, and so on. I’m sure I wasn’t the only one suggesting it happen however sitting towards the rear in the gold seats is not so much fun. When you go on to select your seat the front economy section of seats are blocked out for Platinums and above. Most days when I travel I go to the lounge for a drink of water and sit in the relative quietness of the gate. Much less stress given the tediousness of travel. Yep, ltg is really only good for the checkin & aircraft boarding line up and lounge amenities and not much else. I use the points to buy wine which I know is overpriced however it’s basically free so who am I to complain.

 

[2PAXfly]

As an intro - I should say that I am a total cynic about Qantas attitude to its loyal flyers.

Sorry if I am repeating a previous suggestion, but when I didn't re-qualify for Gold one year - I rang them and pled my case politely - mainly regretting that I wouldn't re-qualify, and how much I valued it. They said that the number of points I was deficient was outside what they were authorised to comp - but they would refer it to a supervisor. They asked what my travel plans were for the next year - and I big noted my intended domestic and international travel intentions - I think I did have one international business trip booked. I'm sure someone then checked my history. Low and behold, got a phone call the next day to say they had re-qualified me!

My advice is be active and talk to them - don't rely on them monitoring discussion groups. And talk up your future loyalty (not hard based on your history), and mention but downplay the heartstrings about your bereavement. Good Luck.

 

[Benny64]

I've been in a similar circumstance. I have just under 38,000 LTSC and was also P1 for 3 years and have been platinum for the past 15 years. Qantas is ruthless on P1 renewal. You've simply got to get the 3,600 every year or no go. Sad story and I felt the same as you when I came within only a few hundred SC on the P1 and they wouldn't budge. That's life. The worst thing about P1 is losing it, because the service is excellent. I tried the arguments of averaging previous years as I'd clocked up around 5,000 in a previous year but none of that washed. P1 said it's not fair to those that make the threshold each year if they're being flexible. At the time, I think there were around 2,000 P1 FF's out of around 10 million QFF members, so it's a pretty exclusive group. This is my first post by the way, since I joined. I'm only writing because I really sympathise with your situation.

 

[Pushka]

I've been in a similar circumstance. I have just under 38,000 LTSC and was also P1 for 3 years and have been platinum for the past 15 years. Qantas is ruthless on P1 renewal. You've simply got to get the 3,600 every year or no go. Sad story and I felt the same as you when I came within only a few hundred SC on the P1 and they wouldn't budge. That's life. The worst thing about P1 is losing it, because the service is excellent. I tried the arguments of averaging previous years as I'd clocked up around 5,000 in a previous year but none of that washed. P1 said it's not fair to those that make the threshold each year if they're being flexible. At the time, I think there were around 2,000 P1 FF's out of around 10 million QFF members, so it's a pretty exclusive group. This is my first post by the way, since I joined. I'm only writing because I really sympathise with your situation.

Welcome and you will have so much to contribute here so I hope you can hang around.

 

[blaz]

I couldn't care less. After years of platinum status it was a shock to be dumped into lifetime gold, but truly, it is a first world issue isn't it? The food and wine isn't as good any more, but it still comes gratis. Lifetime gold still comes with its perks including being treated more fairly with ticketing issues etc. Don't worry...life continues.

 

[amaroo]

I suppose one benefit of being a SF flyer .... you're not dependant upon someone else maintaining/paying for your status

 

[TonyHancock]

I can't say I have a huge amount of sympathy for those, with large SC balances taking the drop from WP to LTG, after all LTG is a decent perk and is a published reward, of some sorts, for years of flying QF. It is clear what awaits us when we press the book button online, or our corporate travel agent sends through the booking reference.

I still don't buy the whole loyalty charade, surely the self funded chose/choose to fly with an airline because of the benefits of the FF program, the schedule and price? I can't believe anyone makes a decision to spend hard earned money on the basis they want to be loyal to a conglomerate?*

For the most part I have not been self funded, but neither has a my choice of airline been dictated to me. The OW benefits seemed to outweigh those of *A, providing pricing was/is comparable then it was a commercial decision to fly QF and OW airlines. The moment QF abandoned the mASA and became "simpler and fairer" my relationship ended with them. (No hard feelings, just a straight commercial decision.)

I can understand those with a higher SC balance wanting more from QF but I am not sure there is a significant commercial benefit for QF. If they dished out LTP to me tomorrow I don't think I would be giving QF any more business over and above what they would get anyway.

*I ask because within a couple of years my plan is to join the ranks of the self funded flyer (I will remember to add the phrase to pretty much every post I make.) and my goal is to look after my less than hard earned spondulix.

 

[JJFlyer]

Well i feel for Ruth. I have been Platinum for over 20 years and have 52,000 SC and as i get closer to retirement i would like to think there is a rainbow for my years of loyalty. Unfortunately i don't expect anything but the evasive LTP would be a nice gesture. Qantas have done their numbers and there is no gain for them. Fortunately i fly so much i also have Platinum Velocity which i do enjoy the X seating and flexibility with SG. It is like everything in business, once the revenue dries up you become insignificant. At least LTG is a legacy you can keep.

 

[Ivan Neville]

How do you think Qantas should reward long term FF loyalty?

After 22 years of membership, well over 28,000 lifetime status credits, 13 years as Platinum and 3 years as Platinum One, this year I will fail to retain Platinum for the first time in over 15 years. I’ve had to cancel 2 trips that would have retained status due to my father’s illness and ultimately his death. Similar thing happened to my husband last year (although he just flew less) after a slightly shorter run of Platinum. People tell me I may be comped or possibly offered a status challenge, but hubby was not.

We both have LTG - but this is not enough to entice us to remain rusted on to Qantas. Honestly, you get treated well, good baggage and lounge access with any airline if you pay for J tickets. So I guess we will now be free from the shackles of Qantas. The main downside will be reduced award ticket availability to spend all the accumulated FF points

However, I feel rather disrespected. I’ve shown a lot of loyalty to this airline (more than double the status credits required to achieve LTG) for no further recognition. Plus my hubby’s similar long term loyalty. To Qantas, loyalty appears to be annualised and transactional only. Bit of a mistake on their part as we are about to become semi-retirees, spending the kids’ inheritance on travel!

What about some reward for truly long term loyalty? Like lifetime Platinum? Or a couple of “get out of jail free” cards you can use in situations like this to retain status? Other ideas?


,

I recently passed 100,000 SCs, the vast vast majority which were earned with QF. Not a word from QF on this achievement

 

[opusman]

I recently passed 100,000 SCs, the vast vast majority which were earned with QF. Not a word from QF on this achievement

That should get you LTP1!

 

[Kowolski]

I might be alone here, and I may have this wrong, but I fear we’re very short sighted. At best the Qantas ff program is a behaviour for benefits program established in it’s own compartmentalised entity. It’s asset is our loyalty measured by the supposed value of our collective points and the data we knowingly and unknowingly provide the program. There is no such thing as a ff point, if there is show one to me. There are no assets other than the perceived value of our collective points and the data. Loyalty schemes are and have always been a con with benefits. There are NO guarantees anyone will ever get to use their points. When world events turn, or other circumstances arise (like people see the light) and in time they will, I’m expecting many loyalty schemes will collapse. When this occurs, FF points will vapourise.

If you don’t believe this just look at what happened with Ansett Airlines. When Ansett collapsed the FF scheme simply vaporised. Members got nothing because there was nothing to get. “FF points have no value”. If they did, when Ansett collapse members would have been able to use their points with other star alliance partners. No, they got nothing. I lost over a million points from my 15 years of loyalty.

I know the QFF program seems okay, and it’s clever and polished. Heaven knows how many members got sucked in and bought Qantas Health Insurance for the 100,000 bonus points. I’d love to know how paying $6000 for a family health insurance scheme that sells pretty everywhere else for $4500 is worthwhile. I asked three colleagues (who think points are an asset) what ff points are worth and the average was $100 per 20000. So those health fund members paid $1500 to get a supposed $120 in ff points. Qantas are getting the behaviour they desire... the goal of the program... but for how long?

Many loyalty programs are at breaking point. We are living in an unsustainable, growth fuelled greedy world. If any of us think for one second (including me) that our loyalty with Qantas is valued, or that we will actually keep our LTG status and benefits for ever then we are kidding ourselves.

My advice.
- Never build up too many points like they’re some kind of savings account holding something of value.
- burn points on upgrades or Qantas store toasters (what q would prefer) as soon as you can.
- never... never ever believe that paying extra on fares seeking the goal of lifetime status is worthwhile.
- be prepared for when the airlines vapourise all existing lifetime status...they will, that is stage 1.
- be prepared for the day loyalty programs globally fall over and fail...they will.
- if you have paid dearly over the years thinking Qantas values you, seek counselling now.
- enjoy the world we live in.
- love your neighbour.
- teach your children truth.
- don’t buy Qantas health insurance ;-)
- own and control your behaviour.
- think more.
- look forward to the day you fly j class with SIA or someone else because you can’t get a Qantas flight that day and as you look out the window enjoy pondering about how you’re getting better service at a lower price as you see the light.