Second Sydney Airport

[drivatruk]

I vote yes, but there needs to be a mass transit/rapid connection between the two.

At $5.70 for one stop on the train between terminals now i shudder to thank what the charges between airports would be.

I think they better option is a high speed rail service down the east coast. That option would free up a heap of slots for international aircraft.

Id take a train from mel to syd if the 3 hours service touted started up. If QF were smart that get the Govt to build the rail then lease it off them and share the cost with a major transport company like Linfox.

 

[medhead]

Why would distance from "CBD" mean anything? Lots of major airports around the world are "far" from their respective CBDs. Look at DEN, DFW and NRT for starters.

But your missing the fact that SYD is near the CBD. I can land at 8:25 am and be at work by 9:15 am from SYD. How's an airport way out west, with no infrastructure going to compete? Noting I have a 6am curfew restricting my departure, even if I'd be happy-ish to leave at 4:30 am if it saved money.

 

[farstar]

One thing is that the airport wont be operating for many years and if we don't start planing/building it now it will be too late. Also a lot of cities have two or more airports and the sky doesn't fall in. If we don't move forward now it will be too late. If you need to travel to the CBD there will still be Kingsford smith but Sydney is much bigger than the CBD and low cost carriers would be ideal at Badgerys creek. I am close to Badergys creek about 10 minutes drive and I would be happy if there is an airport built. I am very sick of the NIMBY people who are happy to use infrastructure but want it in someone else's backyard.

 

[medhead]

The new airport still needs decent infrastructure to be a success.

 

[VA777]

I received the following email this evening

"Dear va777,

Today, the Government decided that Badgerys Creek will be the site for Western Sydney’s airport.

New infrastructure for Australia’s largest city will provide benefits for all Australians.

Every day the Government is delivering on our plan to build a strong, prosperous economy by building better infrastructure, scrapping bad taxes, cutting red tape and encouraging more trade.

For fifty years, governments have talked about a second airport in Sydney. The talk is over. The decision has been made.

An airport at Badgerys Creek will be good for jobs – 4,000 jobs in the initial construction phase, and up to 60,000 jobs by 2060.

This is the largest project ever undertaken in Western Sydney with the new airport expected to see its first flight in the mid-2020s.

The capacity of Sydney Airport is limited and it is holding back growth. If no action is taken, the economic cost of sticking with one airport is estimated to be $34 billion and around 80,000 jobs foregone by 2060.

An airport in Western Sydney is another part of our plan making life better for Australians – and building the stronger economy with more jobs that we all want.

Regards,



Tony Abbott
Prime Minister"

 

[anat0l]

If they aren't going to remove the curfew at Mascot or plump for more movements or more space, then a second airport is necessary, unless Sydney is happy with the amount of air traffic it has right now and can live with that.

I guess some pundits will say, "Yeah, we've got enough," so no new airport (or bigger airport) required. The other pole is all the business and tourism clique claiming how many millions of dollars lost in potential trade due to inadequate facilities; of course, they are trying to lead people on a bit too much (try some better conservative estimates?)

It's worth noting that just because it looks like the new Sydney West Airport is in the middle of no where and we have a strong right government in federal power, that doesn't mean there will be no curfew on the new airport either. Even our prime minister - the ever indecisive but yet decisive cutter of red and green tape - has said in a news interview that they won't rule out the possibility of a curfew. There's still plenty of residents around the new area who will obviously raise their ire (enough already have at the possibility of a new airport and the possible new noise both of aircraft and ground movements, plus some who will obviously have to give up their home and land for the new facility or accompanying facilities). Only hope is whether the sitting MP in the area of the new airport and surrounding ones with new flight paths are dispensable enough not to have the clout to bring an unconditional action in parliament so there will be a curfew enforced. And even if there is no curfew at the start of operations, there's nothing to say that future governments - left or right - will not institute a curfew.

Definitely there needs to be an astute ground transport plan for the new airport. Whether it's Incheon or Narita, something that far needs a decent transport connection - simply extending a rail line is likely not the answer. I don't have a lot of faith that the pollies will have guts to actually think out this one and act accordingly, but the necessity can't be denied.

This new airport is a good chance to actually put the feet in the right place and build something that makes Australia look like a damn well worthy place to do business. Me thinks our politicians and even those proponents of the new airport don't seem to appreciate how important that opportunity is.

 

[Melburnian1]

The yet to open Leppington railway will terminate fairly close to Badgerys Creek, so it would be relatively easy to extend it.

That said, high speed rail along the east coast (MEL to BNE Via SYD) is preferable to a second airport, even if Christopher Brown claimed otherwise.

 

[amaroo]

About time

........

 

[Buzzard]

So whats the code for Badgers?

BAD I still think the second airport should be around the Gong

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Good. (Sydney will need it in a few years time)

 

[Awesom Andy]

I don't know what the winds are like inland, but let's see how it copes without a crosswind runway (which seems to be a useful thing to have around this part of the world). It's also more likely to suffer from fog as well - even cat IIIb has its limits.

 

[Isochronous]

An 'airport express' line linking Badgery's Creek to Penrith, Parramatta, and Campbelltown would be ideal.

 

[anat0l]

It's also more likely to suffer from fog as well - even cat IIIb has its limits.

I keep forgetting about this point about fog. That's no good if it's going to prove to be limiting the airport's capability greatly. Basically, it'd be like building Australia's biggest white elephant.

Did someone ever bring up further studies about the fog / weather around Badgery's Creek then or now?

 

[Awesom Andy]

Did someone ever bring up further studies about the fog / weather around Badgery's Creek then or now?

I certainly hope so. Oh, by the way, when is the peak hour for Asian mid/long-long haul arrivals again? (rhetorical question)

 

[Sprucegoose]

Think its also a question of what goes there. I suspect Stage 1 will be a freight terminal and an LCC style passenger terminal, potentially with a few international swing gates

Yes quite possibly, we have lost our ability to 'think big' in this country.

I couldn't imagine any discerning int pax wanting to arrive there unless there was a high speed rail link

 

[Buzzard]

On a positive note, by the time they have The Creek fully up and running I'll be at Rookwood.

I'm voting no in the poll because I think the second airport should be around Woollongong thus better serving the south coast.

 

[RooFlyer]

But your missing the fact that SYD is near the CBD. I can land at 8:25 am and be at work by 9:15 am from SYD. How's an airport way out west, with no infrastructure going to compete? Noting I have a 6am curfew restricting my departure, even if I'd be happy-ish to leave at 4:30 am if it saved money.

Not all air pax to/from SYD go into the Sydney CBD; may not even be a majority. A western Sydney airport would service the +1 mill people who live in 'western Sydney' and don't want to go anywhere near the CBD or current Sydney airport (not to mention the 'Gong, Newcastle & close regional areas who fly international out of Sydney AND lots of transit pax from interstate).

(and BTW, how reliable is it currently that you WILL land at 8:25am and be in the CBD by 9:15 Surely you would sensibly not schedule anything important before 10am?)

A significant point of competition would be that its curfew-free. One can imagine that airline costs will be lower (yes, remains to be seen) but if so a LCC may base itself there (not necessarily an Australian one).

As for infrastructure, you would have heard what you mate Abbott just announced : "Roads first, airport second". Did anyone really think they would plonk an airport out there and not build roads to suit?

 

[fjc]

If I remember correctly, some (many?) years ago, there was a discussion that most of the intrastate NSW flights would go to Bankstown. One hell of a stink, and the idea was dropped. Many bush business / academics / workers fly down and back in the day from all over NSW, often have to transit to somewhere other than the CBD eg Ryde, so efficiency is necessary.

If Bankstown was considered suitable back then, why is it not even being considered now?

 

[markis10]

If Bankstown was considered suitable back then, why is it not even being considered now?

Infrastructure for one, its too well developed in terms of its environs, and the work required to bring it up to standard is not too much different in cost to a greenfield site that does not have the same restrictions.

Its also too close to Sydney from a flight path point of view.

 

[medhead]

Not all air pax to/from SYD go into the Sydney CBD; may not even be a majority. A western Sydney airport would service the +1 mill people who live in 'western Sydney' and don't want to go anywhere near the CBD or current Sydney airport (not to mention the 'Gong, Newcastle & close regional areas who fly international out of Sydney AND lots of transit pax from interstate).

(and BTW, how reliable is it currently that you WILL land at 8:25am and be in the CBD by 9:15 Surely you would sensibly not schedule anything important before 10am?)

A significant point of competition would be that its curfew-free. One can imagine that airline costs will be lower (yes, remains to be seen) but if so a LCC may base itself there (not necessarily an Australian one).

As for infrastructure, you would have heard what you mate Abbott just announced : "Roads first, airport second". Did anyone really think they would plonk an airport out there and not build roads to suit?

You asked why infrastructure was important. I answered. Pax having different needs was considered in that answer. No need to be insulting if you don't like the answer. Abbot my mate, indeed!!!

I can reliably get to work at 9:15, 90% of the time. On good days I can be there at 9am. The creek needs to kill the Adelaide curfew to be competitive.