Should business class be buyer beware?

[medhead]

One could discuss the issue and not take pot shots at the OP. And the issuer is the quality of J product on Virgins E190, I suggest.

On the flip side, much as I respect the OP, he does have a habit of seeming to be critical of VA for things that he would accept in other airlines.

The other thing that a lot of posters seem to be missing is need. I've recently moved a Monday morning VA J flight to a Sunday flight. 737-E190. I could have stuck with a 737 on the Sunday if I flew at 6am. Instead, being a Sunday I took the 9am option. I get a sleep in, I get to Sydney when I need to be there not 3 hours early and I'm still going to be comfortable on the flight. Basically the aircraft type is completely irrelevant.


Sent from the Throne

 

[JohnK]

Not quite true John, they had to spend $300+, an amount not too different to what you spent, with both discussions centered on what value was obtained from the expenditure, be it seating or gift cards!

I still think they are not the same. You are entitled to disagree.

On the flip side, much as I respect the OP, he does have a habit of seeming to be critical of VA for things that he would accept in other airlines.

That is not fair. I am critical of both airlines if I feel that they do something that seems deceitful.

Why VA you ask? Because apparently they are the new players on the block and people are raving about their product and service and I do not see all the fuss. It is an ordinary product and the service is marginal with Qantas most times. If you have been treated differently then it is the exception not the norm.

I should not have to hover over something to find that it is 2 economy seats next to each other. It is clear deceit and I do not care that it is written in their fine print somewhere.

And with Qantas I have the same gripe. I choose a flight on a 767 and it is replaced to a 734/738. I should be able to change that flight any flight on that day on a 767, or other day, free of charge. Not accept that rubbish. I would feel even more strongly if I had chosen 747/A380 and it was changed to an A330/767.

Do I whinge too much? Perhaps I do but I also do not sit back and accept rubbish from faceless corporations who hide behind their facelessness if you understand what I mean.

And another thing we have lost touch with somewhere along the way. We are the reason corporations exist. Not the other way around....

 

[mannej]

If you a flying on a non-flexible, why should you be able to change to a different flight just because you don't like the plane?

 

[medhead]

That is not fair. I am critical of both airlines if I feel that they do something that seems deceitful.

you're right. I should have said "more critical"


Sent from the Throne

 

[JohnK]

If you a flying on a non-flexible, why should you be able to change to a different flight just because you don't like the plane?

Because the experience is not the same and not worth the money I paid.

 

[mannej]

Because the experience is not the same and not worth the money I paid.

I'm referring to your comment about QF changes. IME I have yet to see them charge more because of what aircraft you are on domestically. I see them charge more for the better schedule more than anything.

That being the case, your argument doesn't hold any water.

 

[Mal Ware]

And another thing we have lost touch with somewhere along the way. We are the reason corporations exist. Not the other way around....

I agree with this, if your paying for a service you should get it.

 

[JohnK]

I'm referring to your comment about QF changes. IME I have yet to see them charge more because of what aircraft you are on domestically. I see them charge more for the better schedule more than anything.

And I was referring to exactly the same thing and as you and I are not likely to agree on this topic ever I do not understand why you continue to bait me.

I am paying Qantas to take me from SYD-BNE and vv in a 767. I spend time researching my flight option and choosing wisely. A 737 is simply inferior and not worth the money I paid to travel in luxury on a 767. If I had known that the 5:35pm flight was going to be a 737 and not a 767 then I would have chosen the 6:05pm flight, 5:05pm, 7:05pm flight. Any flight other than a 737.

Flexible or not flexible I should have the option to change when the airline is stuffing me around with their inability to schedule properly. But unfortunately they have this little fine print that entitles them to do anything they want.

 

[oz_mark]

I am paying Qantas to take me from SYD-BNE and vv in a 767. I spend time researching my flight option and choosing wisely. A 737 is simply inferior and not worth the money I paid to travel in luxury on a 767. If I had known that the 5:35pm flight was going to be a 737 and not a 767 then I would have chosen the 6:05pm flight, 5:05pm, 7:05pm flight. Any flight other than a 737.

I find that depends on the 737. I'd take an AVOD equipped BSI 737 over a 767. One of the older 737s, probably not so tempting!

 

[Fruitcake]

I am paying Qantas to take me from SYD-BNE and vv in a 767. I spend time researching my flight option and choosing wisely. A 737 is simply inferior and not worth the money I paid to travel in luxury on a 767. If I had known that the 5:35pm flight was going to be a 737 and not a 767 then I would have chosen the 6:05pm flight, 5:05pm, 7:05pm flight. Any flight other than a 737.

That's a sensible stance. But on the QF website, both products are described as "business class."

Sounds like a case of "buyer beware."

 

[RooFlyer]

One could discuss the issue and not take pot shots at the OP. And the issuer is the quality of J product on Virgins E190, I suggest.

The issue is actually "Should business class be buyer beware?" as per the OP's title.

My answer is yes ... see post #46.

Is it? Well, I'll discriminate between 'title' and 'subject'

Cut to the chase - think 'economy' then think 'business class'. What comes to mind with the latter over the former? I'd suggest its: fewer hassles, more space, better service, better meal/drinks service, lounge access, priority boarding.

Whilst I may check out SeatGuru to check out a seat position when I'm on an unfamiliar airline, I frankly don't have time to check out the plane rego (to see if its been reconfigured), and all the other permutations and combinations that have been mentioned here. If its 'business class', from my perspective, I shouldn't have to delve through an airlines web pages to see if there is an anomaly: - its business class, and that's what I'm paying (or pointing) for.

If I book a Suburban from Hertz in the USA, having hired it lots of times from Avis there, I don't expect it to be a dinky little sub-compact, and be told "gee you didn't do your research - here at Hertz that's what we call a 'Suburban' ".

I refer to my original post. If you actually book a sector where Virgin run the 2 x 2 E190s, and also 737s, the description of 'Business' at the booking stage is identical. Is that reasonable?

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I am extremely unhappy, and angry, that I paid for business class SYD-CNS to sit in an economy seat in an E190. The seat in 1F is no different to the seat in 3F.

Last time this happened to me I told the CSM I would be de-boarding. Walked off and was rebooked on the next Boeing service.

I love flying (a lot), but the E190 sucks for anyone with carry on and it's very cramped.

 

[jetlagger]

the E190 sucks for anyone with carry on and it's very cramped.

I also find the E190 lacklustre, confined & noisy.
If there is a choice rather fly with any model with an A or B in front of the series

 

[JohnK]

I find that depends on the 737. I'd take an AVOD equipped BSI 737 over a 767. One of the older 737s, probably not so tempting!

Yes the backgammon is nice but not the end of the world in 23J without it. I am assuming the 767's will have IFE soon which will make the attraction for the newer 737's not so attractive.

 

[JohnK]

That's a sensible stance. But on the QF website, both products are described as "business class."

Sounds like a case of "buyer beware."

I was referring to economy but I totally agree with you.

I am not defending Qantas but at least their business offering is a little better and consistent. Assuming they do no offer business class on Dash-8's.

 

[ChrisCunard]

I am paying Qantas to take me from SYD-BNE and vv in a 767. I spend time researching my flight option and choosing wisely. A 737 is simply inferior and not worth the money I paid to travel in luxury on a 767.

Since when was a QF 767 luxury?

 

[ChrisCunard]

I was referring to economy but I totally agree with you.

I am not defending Qantas but at least their business offering is a little better and consistent. Assuming they do no offer business class on Dash-8's.

As a long time QF fan who has just converted to DJ... DJ's Domestic J-class on board service is far better than QF and they have far less inconsistency in hard product than QF... Even less once the E190's are fully converted.

 

[ChrisCunard]

Why offer a product for sale that does not exist on certain aircraft types? Qantas does this on Dash-8s, why cant Virgin?

I am extremely unhappy, and angry, that I paid for business class SYD-CNS to sit in an economy seat in an E190. The seat in 1F is no different to the seat in 3F.

And what is worse tonights flight TSV-BNE in business class appears to be the same aircraft E190 and I have been shifted from 1F to 2A.

This is not fair. I paid to sit in business class not economy. Do people just accept this type of service? I don't pay to travel in business class that often and I hate being ripped off....

What I don't understand is once you have a J ticket on DJ it's fully flexible. Why didn't you just change flights when you saw the E190 seat plan??

 

[markis10]

What I don't understand is once you have a J ticket on DJ it's fully flexible. Why didn't you just change flights when you saw the E190 seat plan??

In this case there is only one flight every day for the first leg and no other aircraft type on the second leg.

 

[MichaelD]

This warning is *NEW*. It most certainly wasn't there with my last E190 flight (MEL-SYD-BNK). MEL-SYD was fine. I then boarded SYD-BNK only to be informed that there was no J service and would I like to purchase something off the menu to eat. "But my ticket says BUSINESS". FA goes away for a while and checks with higher-ups. "OK, you can have any selection off the economy menu for free".

This warning ONLY comes up on multi-sector flights where one of the sectors isn't sold as J (eg MEL-PER-KTA, eg MEL-SYD-BNK) - if you book PER-KTA or SYD-BNK directly you cannot buy J, but you can with a multi sector booking. This now matches the way Qantas do it.

Virgin will not warn you about pretend J E190 flights (hard product 2 Y seats, soft product J) as they consider them J. They aren't J. It still remains caveat emptor with regards to E190s until the refit is completed.

Having flown both Virgin pretend J E190 and Qantas 737-400 J, there is no comparison between the two - given the choice, I will pick Qantas 100% of the time.

Virgin, whilst getting better, still remain more inconsistent in service delivery than Qantas.