Should business class be buyer beware?

[mannej]

Well we are all entitled to our opinions and I have no issue with you disagreeing with me - But you will not persuade me from the fact that the 2x Seats on the E190's is not what many people expect of business class, especially when it used to be sold as premium economy.

It is funny that if you were to fly the same aircraft in Europe in J, there were be no difference to the Y seats!


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

 

[Sprucegoose]

Ok I think this settles it chaps........

Hvad er forskellen mellem economy class og business class? - YouTube

 

[hydrabyss]

Thanks I needed a good laugh.

 

[pagingjoan]

Ok I think this settles it chaps........

Hvad er forskellen mellem economy class og business class? - YouTube

Thank you, Sprucegoose! Brightened my day immediately.
And must be in the running for Thread Stopper of the year?
Well done.

 

[JohnK]

For what it is worth I travelled in business class last night BNE-SYD.

How anyone could say justify the offering on E190s as business class is beyond me. At least Qantas' offering on the 734's could pass as business class and it gets better from there up to the skybeds.

And the CSM was the same person from my TSV-BNE E190 flight a couple of weeks ago. Remembered me and looked after me quite well as we were going around and around in circles over the Hunter Valley.

 

[eastwest101]

It is funny that if you were to fly the same aircraft in Europe in J, there were be no difference to the Y seats!


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

Yes but not surprising when the price difference is taken into account, a 2-3hr intra-europe (say London-Rome) flight in J class will cost around $550 on BA wheras a 2-3hr Melbourne-Brisbane flight in J class will be from $1197 VA up to $1450 QF. Obviously the products and the prices are very very different.

Would you pay Australian J class prices for a Eurobusiness product?

Paying full J prices for PE seating on the E190 is insane, if the J prices offered by VA for the E190 were priced at PE level then obviously it would be a different equation.

 

[pagingjoan]

"And must be in the running for Thread Stopper of the year?"

How wrong I was! Unstoppable, obviously.

 

[Sprucegoose]

"And must be in the running for Thread Stopper of the year?"

How wrong I was! Unstoppable, obviously.

No, but we slowed it down!

 

[bullerdude]

Yes but not surprising when the price difference is taken into account, a 2-3hr intra-europe (say London-Rome) flight in J class will cost around $550 on BA wheras a 2-3hr Melbourne-Brisbane flight in J class will be from $1197 VA up to $1450 QF. Obviously the products and the prices are very very different.

Would you pay Australian J class prices for a Eurobusiness product?

Paying full J prices for PE seating on the E190 is insane, if the J prices offered by VA for the E190 were priced at PE level then obviously it would be a different equation.

Good point - If you think about it, all VA really did in the E190 was make the seats black, give you some food and then call it business - this is not what I call a good way to treat your customers, especially when you charge full price for this product.


It kinda like what happened on the 737-700's, they tried to sell the PE seats as Business at first but that result in a lot of negative feedback - so they decided to stop selling it on those planes without the new business cabin. That is what they should have done with the E190's.

Ok I think this settles it chaps........

Hvad er forskellen mellem economy class og business class? - YouTube

Nice Exactly what this thread needed

 

[straitman]

It kinda like what happened on the 737-700's, they tried to sell the PE seats as Business at first but that result in a lot of negative feedback - so they decided to stop selling it on those planes without the new business cabin. That is what they should have done with the E190's.

Well it won't be a problem for much longer.

 

[JohnK]

No, but we slowed it down!

You are so funny.

<redacted>

 

[JohnK]

Just in case anyone is interested in the delayed response. All I can say is very very disappointing. It is clearly evident as I suspected that Virgin has no idea about Customer Service.

Dear Mr JohnK,

Thank you for your feedback which we have received here within the Guest Relations department as we appreciate the time taken to make us aware of your comments and concerns. I apologise for the delay in response to your feedback.

Mr JohnK, it was with regret to read of your concerns regarding your recent flight experiences from Sydney to Cairns and Townsville to Brisbane on 16 & 18 November.We do have a number of Embraer aircraft within our fleet that are a smaller aircraft and we do provide the Business class product on this aircraft. Business class seating can vary dependent upon aircraft type, however, we do provide the option to view the aircraft being booked and aircraft information so that our guests may make an informed decision in regards to which aircraft they do wish to travel on (please see example below):

Unfortunately, we do not offer compensation for travel in Business class on an Embraer aircraft. Although the aircraft is a different and smaller type than our Boeing aircraft, we are unable to guarantee the exact same Business class seating product on all aircraft types. The product, apart from Boeing Business class seating, however, are still available for our Business guests, including increased fare flexibility, increased baggage allowance, included food and beverage/inflight entertainment, blocked seat next to you to ensure extra room (in lieu of tray table), priority check in/boarding/baggage and enhanced service.

Mr JohnK I apologise if the expectations were not met on this occasion, and we certainly do not deceive anyone with our products. As such, I have logged your feedback as an official complaint to ensure that our senior management team are made aware of your disappointment with the Business class product provided on the Embraer aircraft.In closing, we would like to thank you once again for taking the time to contact us here at Virgin Australia and for allowing me the opportunity to respond.

I understand your disappointment; however, I do sincerely hope that we will have the opportunity to welcome you back on board in the near future for a more positive experience and regain your faith in our Business class product and services.

Kind Regards
Mr <redacted> | Guest Relations Coordinator

Is this supposed to be serious?

They could not have used a poorer example than SYD-BNE where aircraft substitutions happen all the time. Posted with such confidence that I am supposed to know the difference between business class products on each different aircraft.

Not very happy and I am taking this matter further. Is the ombudsman the place to go?

 

[tuapekastar]

Just in case anyone is interested in the delayed response. All I can say is very very disappointing. It is clearly evident as I suspected that Virgin has no idea about Customer Service.



Is this supposed to be serious?

They could not have used a poorer example than SYD-BNE where aircraft substitutions happen all the time. Posted with such confidence that I am supposed to know the difference between business class products on each different aircraft.

Not very happy and I am taking this matter further. Is the ombudsman the place to go?

It is a bollocks reply, but you probably could have omitted the Virgin employee's name.

 

[onezero]

Just in case anyone is interested in the delayed response. All I can say is very very disappointing. It is clearly evident as I suspected that Virgin has no idea about Customer Service.



Is this supposed to be serious?

They could not have used a poorer example than SYD-BNE where aircraft substitutions happen all the time. Posted with such confidence that I am supposed to know the difference between business class products on each different aircraft.

Not very happy and I am taking this matter further. Is the ombudsman the place to go?

What ombudsman?

Would love to see the email you sent them....

 

[markis10]

What ombudsman?

Would love to see the email you sent them....

Travel Advocate http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-announces-travel-advocate-service-38816.html

 

[yohy?!]

admittedly I have only read the first pages of this thread ...

now with talk of complaints and going to ombudsmen i'm wondering where the deficiencies were between what is advertised on E90 J and what was delivered on E90 J?

VA offers the following in its J offering for E90 metal:

• Luxury leather
• Two seats per row*
• Generous recline
• 34 inch (85cm) seat pitch

In addition you get the J menu, IFE on tablet, lounge access, baggage allowance and priority boarding.

There indeed is no mention or image of the new E90 J seats which change the config to 1-2 and increase the pitch to 38".

Granted this is a transitional product from the old PE to J and it would be extremely disappointing to be sat in this config versus the new one but the fact remains - the new product is not for sale yet (although the seats have begun to appear) thus would getting them not be a bonus rather than not getting them a minus?

 

[Simo]

Overall this is a cough response.

E90 is not a business class product IMHO

 

[JohnK]

What ombudsman?

I wasn't sure of the correct terminology.

Would love to see the email you sent them....

Here you go. Harsh as I do not like beating around the bush.

Dear Sir/Madam,

A few months ago I booked a SYD-CNS flight in business class for 16 November. I also booked a CNS-TSV-BNE flight in flexi saver for 18 November and upgraded to business class using my complimentary upgrade.

How do you think I felt at SYD airport when I saw this was an Embraer E-190 aircraft? There must be some mistake. There is no way this is business class. Not even close. But I was assured this was business class and I am not the first person to complain.

I am not sure who in their right minds calls 2 economy seats next to each other and a Samsung tablet for IFE a business class. And why would you want to call this business class? And the cramped cabin did not provide any separation from economy. I was in row 1 and could hear the conversation in row 3. And the curtain was never drawn so it felt like I was in economy.

If you thought I was shocked at that sight then I cannot describe how I felt when I saw an Embraer E-190 on the TSV-BNE leg as well. Exactly the same experience as above.

What a waste of money. I could have just sat in economy and saved my money on business and my complimentary upgrade for a real business class aircraft.

I actually paid more for the flexi saver so I could use the complimentary upgrade. An upgrade from economy to economy? Not very smart is it?

At least on both occasions the crew were very apologetic and told me they have had many complaints from people who found out at last minute.

For an airline that is trying hard to compete with Qantas I do not understand why you would continue to offer business class on aircraft such as these, or some 737-700 aircraft that are all economy or premium economy.

At least Qantas has the decency not to sell business class on the Dash-8's.

This is no way to impress a customer and let me say that I am extremely disappointed at the lack of business class on both of my flights. And I know now that had I hovered my mouse over the flight details when I booked I would have seen the product described but this is still not good enough.

This is clear deception and I feel like a fool.

Kind Regards,
JohnK

The more I read the response and the worse it looks. I did not even ask for compensation. I have also been advised to go straight to John Borghetti first and that is where I am going....

 

[bullerdude]

I wasn't sure of the correct terminology.


Here you go. Harsh as I do not like beating around the bush.



The more I read the response and the worse it looks. I did not even ask for compensation. I have also been advised to go straight to John Borghetti first and that is where I am going....

I suggest passing a message to VA's Facebook account - the social media team is fantastic. They have helped me get in touch directly with senior management regarding poor business class service in the past.

 

[MarkD]

Agree with JohnK on this one, response is very poor from VA. "We provided cough, but hey, just keep giving us $$$ and fly with us again"
Personally, I would still take the embraer over B737 any day, even with the spare seat in place of J seat, however, I wouldnt call it Business Class, I just love the embraer