Should J & F be AO? (Kids we dont want you in Business class!)

[JohnK]

Not sure if it has come out the wrong way but I do not believe that children should be banned from any class of travel on an aircraft but parents need to be 100% responsible for the behaviour of their children.

By the way which parent takes children on trips with them and at every opportunity turns their back on the children. If you are going to let children loose on the public then you need to be in complete control of your children. Anything less is totally unacceptable.

As for screaming babies, I've heard there are plenty of techniques for calming them (apart from stuff that works on adults as well), but in the end it's really difficult to keep them under control per se. How about bassinets which act like a cone of silence?

I feel sorry for screaming babies and wish there was something I could do to help them.

It is spoilt brats that could potentially ruin the flight of others around. I see no reason why a 6-7 year old would need to scream, kick around, refuse to wear seat belt on take off while the 2 parents are powerless to stop her. No kid of mine will ever be able to act like that in public.

It's hard to disagree with that statement.

The broader problem is the lack of control some parents seem to have over their children in both their own home and out in public, whether by choice or just pure laziness.

Not sure it is laziness.

It is society as we have created and accept today.

People act this way at home and think it is OK to carry on this way in public. How hard is it to control a child? We were hardly ever hit as children but we were well behaved. I remember going shopping with mum when I was 8,9,10,11 etc and I used to simply follow her around but occasionally I would go to the book section while she was shopping. These days I see children screaming wanting this and that and the parent just has no control.

A friend of mine has raised 3 children and he does not hit them. I remember I spent a fair bit of time with him when he had his first daughter with him and she was well behaved. All he had to do was look at her and she would be quiet. There was never a time when she had to be told twice.

Going off-topic but I am at work and earlier today I was hearing screeching noises from someone's headphones and they are sitting ~5 metres away from me. It is stopping me from working. I should not have to have a confrontation with them to turn the stupid things off. I did the best thing I could do and that was go for a break.

Oh and the stupid headphones have started screeching again. :evil:

 

[oz_mark]

So the real answer to this all is that there need to be more powers on board to force parents who don't give a damn about their kids' behaviour to actually give a damn if they are unruly, noisy or otherwise out of control.

Problem is what kind of powers? Can't throw them off the plane (well, it'd be nice to do that whilst airborne, but unfortunately that's not physically or legally possible, yet). Can't fine them (at least I don't think you can). Help me out here...

This I think goes to the heart of the problems parents have. The are expected to be responsible for their children's behaviour, but their authority in doing so has been cut down in recent years.

My own point of view, is if they have paid ticket to be in a cabin, they can be there.

 

[cove]

So far I favour the "Cone of Silence" idea !

 

[ozmille]

My own point of view, is if they have paid ticket to be in a cabin, they can be there.

Completely agree here. I must have been lucky so far on long haul flights in J. There have always been infants, toddlers, teens but have never had any disturbance. Last time in whY from SIN back to SYD we had a cry baby who did not stop the whole way. Parents were so ashamed and gave the baby a drink walked around but the baby did not stop. What more can they do? On last weeks DJ flight the parents sat on each side of their 5 year old and both pretended to sleep whilst it just screamed the whole time. This was far worse in my eyes.

 

[awilcockson]

it wouldnt be accepted if it was a teen sitting in their seat screaming anymore than it would be accepted an adult yelling at the top of his /her voice during the flight

It's funny that you say that. I had a CX flight CNS to HKG. Flying J, and the guy next to/behind me (herringbone layout) started breaking out into very long singing 20 minutes after takeoff. He'd had at least 3 G&Ts by then, and on the fourth said "another G&T and give it to me in a real glass next time, not one of these coughpy small ones" :shock:

I complained to the FAs several times (just as I thought the bugger had gone to sleep, he'd break out into raucous singing again). Eventually, on about my third complaint, I got moved to a free seat up closer to the front of the aircraft, where with the aid of headphones I was able to block him out, but I was quite surprised that they were unwilling to do anything to get him to stop.

As for kids in J, I've seen it a few times, they've never been a problem. To be honest, I get the feeling that any kid whose parents can afford to put them in J is probably going to be well behaved. Hell, I've sat in a Y windows seat for 12 hours with a mum in the aisle set and her 2 year old between us. Woke up to find him lying sideways with his head on my leg. Big deal, he was better behaved that some of the obnoxious, farting, no bo-basher, press the call button every 5 minutes losers on the flight.

 

[ozmille]

So far I favour the "Cone of Silence" idea !

if it works

 

[anat0l]

It's funny that you say that. I had a CX flight CNS to HKG. Flying J, and the guy next to/behind me (herringbone layout) started breaking out into very long singing 20 minutes after takeoff. He'd had at least 3 G&Ts by then, and on the fourth said "another G&T and give it to me in a real glass next time, not one of these coughpy small ones" :shock:

I complained to the FAs several times (just as I thought the bugger had gone to sleep, he'd break out into raucous singing again). Eventually, on about my third complaint, I got moved to a free seat up closer to the front of the aircraft, where with the aid of headphones I was able to block him out, but I was quite surprised that they were unwilling to do anything to get him to stop.

My answer: a Bl**dy Mary ordered. Then, tip it onto him; preferably making it out to be an "accident".

Hmmm....does that constitute assault:?:


One thing perhaps is that people don't utilise collective power enough. One of the usual excuses of people who try to defend their raucous behaviour (whether it be an adult or an adult defending their child or a child themselves) is that, "You seem to be the only person annoyed" / "No one else is complaining" / etc.. The other excuse is, "I'm not hurting anyone" or using one of the "help yourself" alternatives (e.g. if you don't like the level of my voice, use the earplugs in your amenity kit and your noise cancelling headphones!) Neither are valid excuses but they will usually try to press them, and often FAs (especially from Asian carriers) will choose the most pacified option.

 

[casanovawa]

If there was a way of developing a bassinet that would dull the noise without cutting off the airflow, then yes maybe that would be great (although crying babies really need attention not sealing off)... But having a 5 year old that a couple of years ago we took up to Bali from Perth (and he needed to visit the toilet 7 times or so, not sure what it was doing to his system?!?!) and also travelled when he was like 1 or 2 and trying to keep him occupied when not asleep, i can sympathise with parents about how hard it can be and don't really get too annoyed, although it tends to be on shorter trips in economy... its just life unfortunately...

teenagers should be able to control themselves, its like 5 to 10-12 that can be most problematic... and if they kick the seat several times then yeah they do get a glare and that is often enough... no need to slash wrists or lose the plot... there may also be an element for remembering the good old days and how everything was perfect back then, and we were all perfectly behaved ourselves of course... and yes society has changed for the better and worse, and lots more people are able to travel because of cheap airfares, and society doesn't always help parents and each child is different depending on their genes etc...

in terms of what you can do, maybe airlines could introduce a three strikes and your out policy for everyone, and families and individuals get warned of egregious sub standard behaviour that it will be recorded etc... but plenty of adults might be at risk of not flying that airline again... adult only business class might get labelled premium business and attract an extra fee like exit rows and everything else...
adult only flights might be another possibility, but then you could be asking the airline to forgo revenue by restricting potential passengers, are up for paying more for this???

and as for what people want, some people might want black people down the back of the plane, others might want old, snoring, farting people down the back, and fat people of course.. might get a bit crowded back there... and you have to be careful that you don't end up in one of the labelled groups yourself... so there are often good reasons why companies don't usually pander to customers demands about what they do or don't want in a free country... apart from laws brought in to stop this that also work for you in other areas...

 

[awilcockson]

and as for what people want, some people might want black people down the back of the plane, others might want old, snoring, farting people down the back, and fat people of course.. might get a bit crowded back there... and you have to be careful that you don't end up in one of the labelled groups yourself... so there are often good reasons why companies don't usually pander to customers demands about what they do or don't want in a free country... apart from laws brought in to stop this that also work for you in other areas...

Great post.

 

[kamchatsky]

Just do a Mister T solution ..... problem solved.

 

[NM]

What about having 18+ only areas of the cabin in J. EG upper deck on the 744.

I find some 18+ passengers to be worse cabin-mates than many children.

Do we segregate recliners? Snorers? People who sing along or laugh out loud watching the IFE/iPad etc? People who ate too much of the wrong food the night before (garlic, onion, chilli etc)? I will take my chances with the under 18s and like to have those listed above banished to the cargo hold please.

 

[casanovawa]

In a society that unfortunately thinks less and less about courtesy to others, a reminder at the start of the flight, maybe near the safety message that can't be turned off, that Qantas/Jetstar/Virgin take this seriously and that passengers should consider others on the plane (and perhaps standards of behaviours towards FAs as well) might be of some use? other businesses certainly state customer charters or behaviour that they will not tolerate to staff/patrons and possible consequences?

Unfortunately some would ignore it, while others would take it as licence to jump up and down about every perceived slight... but at least it would set the environment for staff to note to passengers a company policy that they may be in breach of or approaching a breach requiring their attention (loud singing, totally lazy parents, etc) with remedies and consequences...

There is nothing wrong with a reminder to passengers of what is expected of them so everyone is aware and has it at the front of mind... then there are no excuses although grey areas will always exist...

 

[KLN]

very funny altogether.
but 15yo daughter nearly had a heart attack about banning under 18"s. yikes, she's had more J flights than Y. but she does know how to behave. i need to have her along to sit next to her father, as i always seem to lose the plot with him at airports ( he wanders off, doesn't know the flight no. doesn't know what airline we're flying etc). she deals with him very well. adjusts the seat for him, picks the movies etc. it just helps keep my sanity.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I would rather sit next to a child than an obnoxious rigpig that thinks he has the right to drink as much as he wants & swear like a trooper just because he's spent the last 21 days offshore.

A recent flight ADL/DRW had 22 unaccompanied minors onboard all of whom behaved really well according to the crew. The CSM made a point of telling the parents when signing the kids over to how well behaved they were and what lovely manners they had.

Guess it's a bit like the case of not so much a bad dog but a bad owner.

I've often thought when watching episodes of the Dog Whisperer, when he says dogs need rules, boundaries & limitations that the same rules apply to children.

 

[samiam]

So far I favour the "Cone of Silence" idea !

Or combine the kids' onboard playroom with the 'smoking pod' from an alternate thread:shock:

 

[Moopere]

Interesting read. I imagine there is legislation prohibiting airlines from offers Adult Only flights?? Otherwise, if the 75% figure is true there is an obvious and probably very lucrative consumer base just waiting to be milked.

Business and first only flights that are AO at, of course, a premium price. The 75% respondents would be pleased to pay a few bob more and have a child free flight and everyone would be happy.

The fact that we don't see these types of services anywhere, or at least I've not heard of them, seems to indicate universal illegality (unlikely) or lack of a solid business model/plan.

 

[Princess Fiona]

in terms of what you can do, maybe airlines could introduce a three strikes and your out policy for everyone, and families and individuals get warned of egregious sub standard behaviour that it will be recorded etc... but plenty of adults might be at risk of not flying that airline again... adult only business class might get labelled premium business and attract an extra fee like exit rows and everything else...
adult only flights might be another possibility, but then you could be asking the airline to forgo revenue by restricting potential passengers, are up for paying more for this???

and as for what people want, some people might want black people down the back of the plane, others might want old, snoring, farting people down the back, and fat people of course.. might get a bit crowded back there... and you have to be careful that you don't end up in one of the labelled groups yourself... so there are often good reasons why companies don't usually pander to customers demands about what they do or don't want in a free country... apart from laws brought in to stop this that also work for you in other areas...

Thankyou everything I've ever wanted to say

 

[straitman]

Thankyou everything I've ever wanted to say

I have to agree with many others here that it is more frequently the adults who are a menace than the children.

Sydney to Nadi on Thursday there were 2 young children in business class and they were perfectly behaved.

There were 2 guys (in the centre of course) who only had one very loud volume and the crew were very reluctant to do or say anything. :evil:

 

[NYCguy]

Perhaps if they created 'adult only flights' so no kids could be booked onto those....

Locking kids out of J/F is rediculous. Prime example is that I only fly premium cabins internationally, and if minors weren't allowed in J, then my kids would be flying on the same flight, down the back as unaccompanied minors Actually maybe that's a good idea

My brother and his wife travel like that on every trip - the parents in F or J, and kids down the back with Nanny.

 

[samh004]

I would have thought there were other groups on planes that are more harmful than kids.