Should J & F be AO? (Kids we dont want you in Business class!)

[cove]

Our children knew that if they misbehaved on a plane we would leave them at home.
They quickly got the message so we had years of trouble free J and F travel as a family.
I still do a lot of their bookings but my 19 year old is pretty good at figuring out the computer bookings now.

 

[stuartfaz]

End of the day, if they (or their parents) fork out for the seat then it's their seat.

But, as a 6'3" guy who mostly flies Y, nothing makes me rage more than seeing kids stretched out in lie-flat J seats

Designated areas, such as the upper deck cabins etc, are the best solution.

 

[nlagalle]

Designated areas, such as the upper deck cabins etc, are the best solution.

Why? and what happens on an A380 where the whole upper deck is J and Y+ you are all together then.

 

[AWA2602]

I pay the premium for the peace and quiet so would rather not have children under the age of 12 in the same cabin - I understand its not the child's fault, its often hard enough for adults to behave for long hours when stuck in tin can with little space, air and variety.

That said a lot depends on the parents. I recently flew SYD-SIN-LHR rtn (on a QF A380) with my sister, my 16mth old twin neices and their nanny. My sister and I sat in the last row of J and kids with the nanny in the first row of Y+. My sister has always been strict in enforcing good behaviour and my nieces have very well developed social skills and ettiquette. In short they were no trouble at all, no crying, no running around, just really well-behaved, well-disciplined little kids.

Sadly this is not the normal experience for me when travelling in the company of "other people's children". Most times its the parents at fault for allowing thier child/children to muck up and misbehave or for failing to teach and train them better before unleashing them on an innocent public.

Perhaps it should be that if a child/children create too much disturbance in F and J class they are moved (along with their parents) to Y class seats. Or pehaps airlines should set aside a section at the back of the Y cabin for families and in this area provide more of a Y+ space allocation and service, better trained/more sympathetic crew and more kiddie-friendly distractions. It would also mean the kids are closer to the galley for faster food service, bottle warming etc and also the toilets for emergency nappy changes and clean ups.

 

[Smackbum]

Funny (sort of) how half the posters regale you of stories about their darling little F/J angels, and then complain about other people's kids and how they should be packed in a cage at the back of Y.

So with that in mind .... my kids started flying internationally as early as 10 weeks, and do long-haul every 2 years. In all that time I have had one flight from hell when my 2-year-old daughter was overtired on our last leg back home, and I discovered the true meaning of red-eye on that SIN/SYD flight. Unfortunately so did those in the vicinity.

The reasons that I have been blessed with good travellers are :-

1. They were taught early and often about good manners and other social niceties.
2. They were also taught about "restaurant behaviour", which was then extended to other public areas like theatres, airlines lounges, etc.
3. When we travel we always set the kids' expectations about when we are going to eat, watch movies, sleep. Avoids arguments later.
4. We also pack lots of things in their activities bags in case AVOD fails.

I think most bad experiences with kids are the result of bad planning by their parents. OK - there are also some really dumb/uncaring people who should have been sterilised at birth, but what can you do?

And in all my flights I can remember a handful where an errant child caused me grief, but far more where a passenger (and very occasionally a crew member) spoilt the experience. I think this thread should be about dealing with ALL disruptive passengers in a consistent manner, and my suggestion is that they should be identified as such and then have to attend a workshop on flight ettiquette before being allowed back on board the airline.

 

[Jasecoop]

Interesting to see the comments from people with no kids giving advice about parenting. Having travelled many times with my kids when they were 1 and 2, if you think it is bad for you, you better believe it is worse for the parent. If you complain about jetlag then imagine what it is like for a young kid or explaining to a 1 year old that your ears always feel that way when flying.

Everytime i hear a kid cry on the plane i dont hold them in disregard but feel sorry for them. Its easy for me, put in the headphones or earplugs and i'm gone. Its amazing when you have practice of broken sleep with kids you can sleep at anytime - even with crying in the background

 

[bossreggie]

Thing for me is..... If the child is <3 and creating a fuss I don't think for a second that is a sign of bad parenting. Even GREAT parents have pretty much all experienced situations which can be embarrassing.

Above 3 though... I think the game changes somewhat.. At that age there IS a level of comprehension about what's right and wrong. No child is perfect... NOR should that be an expectation of fellow pax.

What SHOULD be an expectation though is that if a child plays up (regardless of the cabin) that the parent/guardian takes EVERY reasonable step to try and sort things out promptly for the comfort of all other pax/crew.

IMHO... If another pax OR crew member, has to address the matter it has been going on for too long.

 

[Sequel]

a crew member spoilt the experience.

Best point so far, lets keep a couple of those seats up the back for the FA's who ruin your experience, which for me has happened more often than a screaming child.

 

[QF WP]

I haven't had the chance to read this thread yet, but look forward to tomorrow night when I return to BNE.

I know a similar thread on another FF website that has had similar discussion

 

[dizperliz]

I think the worst experience I had was a kid in business who was travelling with the mother both of whom were on a staff travel ticket.... PAINFUL

 

[simongr]

And in all my flights I can remember a handful where an errant child caused me grief, but far more where a passenger (and very occasionally a crew member) spoilt the experience. I think this thread should be about dealing with ALL disruptive passengers in a consistent manner, and my suggestion is that they should be identified as such and then have to attend a workshop on flight ettiquette before being allowed back on board the airline.

I actually havent had another pax disrupt my enjoyment of the flight (apart from stinky BO suit man in F who didnt change into PJs for an overnight flight...)

 

[Jobu]

75%? Sounds like they surveyed 4 people and 3 of them were childless snobs.

They have noise cancelling headphones in J & F. Put them on and you won't even hear a bomb go off in the galley.

Recently from LHR-SIN I sat next to an imbecile in J, who had his wife and 6 week old child downstairs in Y class. He sat drinking wine, playing games on his iPad and complaining what a pain it is to travel with a baby. I told him I couldn't believe he would let his wife and newborn sit in Y while he sat in J, (I could never do that), to which he said that he didn't want the baby to disturb other J class passengers... When the FA approached him and said that his wife was asking for him, he told her to tell his wife that he was asleep and that they weren't allowed to wake him up, then he carried on playing games. I told him what I thought of him and the FA offered me a bottle of champagne and box of chocolates when he finally went downstairs, which I had to decline.

J

 

[11sjw]

75%? Sounds like they surveyed 4 people and 3 of them were childless snobs.

They have noise cancelling headphones in J & F. Put them on and you won't even hear a bomb go off in the galley.

Recently from LHR-SIN I sat next to an imbecile in J, who had his wife and 6 week old child downstairs in Y class. He sat drinking wine, playing games on his iPad and complaining what a pain it is to travel with a baby. I told him I couldn't believe he would let his wife and newborn sit in Y while he sat in J, (I could never do that), to which he said that he didn't want the baby to disturb other J class passengers... When the FA approached him and said that his wife was asking for him, he told her to tell his wife that he was asleep and that they weren't allowed to wake him up, then he carried on playing games. I told him what I thought of him and the FA offered me a bottle of champagne and box of chocolates when he finally went downstairs, which I had to decline.

J

I gather this is your submission for "Father of the Year" then?

 

[Jasecoop]

Recently from LHR-SIN I sat next to an imbecile in J, who had his wife and 6 week old child downstairs in Y class.
J

In my case if I'm in J and wife in Y - i'm the one with the kid - dont care what the other J passengers think. Last flight like that my little one was a dream, much easier with more room

 

[NM]

Thing for me is..... If the child is <3 and creating a fuss I don't think for a second that is a sign of bad parenting. Even GREAT parents have pretty much all experienced situations which can be embarrassing.

Above 3 though... I think the game changes somewhat.. At that age there IS a level of comprehension about what's right and wrong. No child is perfect... NOR should that be an expectation of fellow pax.

What SHOULD be an expectation though is that if a child plays up (regardless of the cabin) that the parent/guardian takes EVERY reasonable step to try and sort things out promptly for the comfort of all other pax/crew.

IMHO... If another pax OR crew member, has to address the matter it has been going on for too long.

I really try to avoid +1 posts, but this is as spot-on as it gets. My 18+ years of parenting leads me to total agreement with your comments.

 

[QF WP]

I really try to avoid +2 posts, but what a sterling comment bossreggie. Can I use it in the future

 

[samiam]

. Recently from LHR-SIN I sat next to an imbecile in J, who had his wife and 6 week old child downstairs in Y class.

He was probably flying a JASA

Which reminds me of a thread I read recently - an AFF'er was flying a JASA with the wife and kid in Y:?::?::?:

 

[anat0l]

I really try to avoid +2 posts, but what a sterling comment bossreggie. Can I use it in the future

Well I have no qualms in +3 or any +n posts but what bossreggie says makes great sense.


In saying that the statement really only describes half of the problem. The other half is what happens/is supposed to happen when things don't go the right way - in the negative connotation. For example, parents who don't give half a stuff or crew intervention is required - what do you do about the former (so far it seems you can't do anything except suffer, if applicable) or what could/should the crew do if they are to intervene?

The collective flat answer seems to be suggested by this thread title, however most of us feel it's far too restrictive and heavy-handed.

 

[wyvern]

Personally I've found drunk and loud business travellers can be more disruptive than children. Having said that parents should make an effort to control kids. I don't think flights or sections of planes should be child-free. Any airline that stopped taking kids in premium cabins would probably suffer lost business.

 

[Moopere]

In saying that the statement really only describes half of the problem. The other half is what happens/is supposed to happen when things don't go the right way - in the negative connotation. For example, parents who don't give half a stuff or crew intervention is required - what do you do about the former (so far it seems you can't do anything except suffer, if applicable) or what could/should the crew do if they are to intervene?

The collective flat answer seems to be suggested by this thread title, however most of us feel it's far too restrictive and heavy-handed.

Yes, this is the nub of it eh?

We've all fallen to either side of the argument and probably 99% of us would agree that there _is_ no problem if PAX, regardless of age, are well behaved.

As we all believe our own 'little darlings' are not the problem what do we expect when there is a issue? Doing nothing isn't an answer as this discriminates against the far larger population in the plane that are responsible and have paid good money, a lot or a little, for as peaceful a journey as possible.

Should we leave it to the PAX themselves to have bit-o-biffo with the erring passengers and their children (or the drunk idiot adult for that matter?) That doesn't seem to me to be a place we'd want to go ... surely?

The logic of the argument would seem to me to go along the lines of bad behaviour being responded to by more bad behaviour. Before you know if we've having fisticuffs in the plane.