Should J & F be AO? (Kids we dont want you in Business class!)

[dfcatch]

I am considered, very, very light for my height & age, and since I rarely check in baggage. I think that it would be fair that I receive bonus Status Credits and or Points Per KG. I'm thinking 1sc and 100 points per kg less of baggage used, and below average weight.... Thoughts? RedRoo, I'm more than happy to work with you to implement this idea. Just feel free to let me know.

All this flying on Virgin is making me develop a sense of humour.

I would take a discount-per-kg off the fare as an option too

Without wanting to label "families with young children" as second-class flyers who have to be relegated to the back....There is a valid discussion point as to whether it makes more operational sense to have high-need pax (such as bassinets, toddlers etc) generally seated in one part of the aircraft rather than randomly spread throughout.....

I'm not suggesting one track or another - just throwing it out there rather than instantly dismissing the topic. I'm also not just suggesting a NIMBY perspective either.

But I do think it is a legitimate argument that given the cost of long-haul travel (even at Sale fares), that pax are entitled to be grumpy if children misbehave, or keep them awake all night.

The problem is sometimes the parents - and there have been some shocking examples above, sometimes it's the simple fact of a crying infant despite the parents' best efforts.

The solution, as always, is a bit more elusive....

 

[LiamR]

I would take a discount-per-kg off the fare as an option too

Without wanting to label "families with young children" as second-class flyers who have to be relegated to the back....There is a valid discussion point as to whether it makes more operational sense to have high-need pax (such as bassinets, toddlers etc) generally seated in one part of the aircraft rather than randomly spread throughout.....

I'm not suggesting one track or another - just throwing it out there rather than instantly dismissing the topic. I'm also not just suggesting a NIMBY perspective either.

But I do think it is a legitimate argument that given the cost of long-haul travel (even at Sale fares), that pax are entitled to be grumpy if children misbehave, or keep them awake all night.

The problem is sometimes the parents - and there have been some shocking examples above, sometimes it's the simple fact of a crying infant despite the parents' best efforts.

The solution, as always, is a bit more elusive....

+1 I do think that all passengers have a right to be on the aircraft, however it does make sense to put infants and small children together.

Even on short haul it would be preferable not to have small children crying. On a SYD-OOL yesterday I sat behind a child crying and kicking my seat the entire flight. Having a lot of work to do, it was something that made me very grumpy, particually when the mother did nothing about it. The Cabin Crew on the other hand could not stop saying sorry.

 

[simongr]

+1 I do think that all passengers have a right to be on the aircraft, however it does make sense to put infants and small children together.

Even on short haul it would be preferable not to have small children crying. On a SYD-OOL yesterday I sat behind a child crying and kicking my seat the entire flight. Having a lot of work to do, it was something that made me very grumpy, particually when the mother did nothing about it. The Cabin Crew on the other hand could not stop saying sorry.

Why does it make sense? In fact having a screaming child away from other children might actually reduce screaming, Kids often get started by other kids so being together may be a bad thing.

Next why do I get to sit next to a screaming kid with my non-screaming kid?

If you want exclusivity on public transport - hire a private jet!

 

[concorde71]

Why does it make sense? In fact having a screaming child away from other children might actually reduce screaming, Kids often get started by other kids so being together may be a bad thing.

Next why do I get to sit next to a screaming kid with my non-screaming kid?

If you want exclusivity on public transport - hire a private jet!

+1 here. If I pay the fare for my kids, who gives a cough

 

[dfcatch]

+1 here. If I pay the fare for my kids, who gives a cough

And what if you don't pay the fare?

(just playing devils).

And Simongr - whilst not necessarily disagreeing with you, but long haul flights aren't exactly "Public Transport" in the same way as say, catching the bus or train.

Again - the problem a lot of the time is the parents. (eg. Kids kicking seats, running down the aisle, parents not making any attempts to comfort upset infants).

Sometimes, despite oft-embarrassed parents' best efforts, junior is simply upset, scared, in pain, hungry, tired etc. I have endless sympathy for these parents and make a point to never show any annoyance with the situation.

And yes sometimes crying kids spark off other kids.

I'm not a NIMBY, but there is an argument that all passengers have a right to enjoy their flight (all the more so in premium cabins).

At the very least - I don't accept that this right is overridden by a parents right to fly with their kids without any obligation on their part to minimize inconvenience to other travelers.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I agree 100% with simongr.
However I don't think it would harm QF or any other airline for that matter to introduce a behaviour policy, (similar to that in the QP's) stating that parents must take responsibilty for the conduct of their children on the aircraft. The vast majority of parents do the right thing, it is a minority who are intent on spoiling it for all.

 

[Moopere]

I've followed this thread for ages and we're all tying ourselves in knots over it. RyanAir is on the right track in my opinion. It doesn't have to be all kids or no kids in J. The thing to do, to cut through the whole mess is to simply offer certain flights that are child free.

This doesn't stop parents with children flying J, they simply catch the appropriate flight. Those who want to not have to deal with misbehaving parents can choose to fly a childless flight - the airlines would probably charge more for this as its a screaming opportunity to gouge out a bit more for no additional service whatsoever, but Pax who have an opinion on this matter would, without any doubt, be happy to pay the difference.

The only possible reason I can think of why anyone could get upset with a regime like this is if they were hell bent on sharing their child rearing experiences with the general public who really didn't want to be a part of it.

 

[gumpy]

I'm ok to have kids in the premium cabin if they pay full adult fare... =)

serious note, a couple of times i've been a bit worried when I got on board to see a toddler nearby... both times the mother had good control of the child and the fight was fine in the end.

now if they were very noisy and I need to be at a meeting on the other end of the flight... i'd be very very annoyed... My business pays for that seat because I need to get to the other side and work... I mean that's why Business class is called that isn't it?

Maybe children should be limited to F, Y+ and Y and J is an adult only zone? that could work...

 

[Moody]

Maybe children should be limited to F, Y+ and Y and J is an adult only zone? that could work...

It would also work for me if you substitute the word "R's hole" for "adult". Picking them is the hard part.

[Self-redactated for the sensitive souls]

 

[cove]

For those who have not started having their children travelling in the front think very carefully about it.
Work out the lifetime cost of you paying endless amounts of cash and points before crossing that line.
Now my kids are older you get to add their partners onto your list so it gets worse as you head for "grey power" status.

 

[oz_mark]

For those who have not started having their children travelling in the front think very carefully about it.
Work out the lifetime cost of you paying endless amounts of cash and points before crossing that line.
Now my kids are older you get to add their partners onto your list so it gets worse as you head for "grey power" status.

And when your kids and their partners give you grandkids, the list can explode in size :shock:

 

[cove]

Well oz_mark that idea on the third generation is really challenging if it becomes a grandparent trap after already being a parent trap.
We had both better discourage this idea so all the J seats don't vanish!

 

[QF WP]

Easy, when the kids are old enough to pay for it themselves (ie. Working) then they can pay for it.

It was good enough for me, so why not my kids?

I will weaken once and once only. I have decided when I turn 60, I'm going to take Mrs LW on a First Class RTW. I'll buy the kids J RTW (as it will be their 18th & 21st presents). They will know our itinerary and can join us wherever they want, but all other costs will be borne by them.


Sent from my iPhone using AFF Mobile

 

[SeatBackForward]

I'm sick of my kids sitting in J and having to put up with fat lazy businessmen who treat the FA's like servants and can't be bothered to even pick up newspapers they scatter over the floor. What example are they setting hey?

Note: tongue-in-cheek.

 

[QF WP]

I thought you were being serious - that's something I have seen often when de-planing (just how messy some people are in J). Maybe I'm just a tidy person and like to leave places as I found them - I take that as common courtesy.

A number of FA's that have had minor indescretions (including one that spilt a couple of drops of red wine on the QF-supplied newspaper I was reading in J last week) have waited for an expected tongue lashing and honestly looked surprised when I have laughed and said it wasn't an issue (nothing has been that bad that it has been deserving of one).

Makes me think that there are enough J pax with their heads stuck so far up their .... that they are true "DYKWIA" types.

 

[SeatBackForward]

I thought you were being serious - that's something I have seen often when de-planing (just how messy some people are in J). Maybe I'm just a tidy person and like to leave places as I found them - I take that as common courtesy.

A number of FA's that have had minor indescretions (including one that spilt a couple of drops of red wine on the QF-supplied newspaper I was reading in J last week) have waited for an expected tongue lashing and honestly looked surprised when I have laughed and said it wasn't an issue (nothing has been that bad that it has been deserving of one).

Makes me think that there are enough J pax with their heads stuck so far up their .... that they are true "DYKWIA" types.

Well I suppose it was semi-serious, but at risk of offending a few on here, hence the disclaimer...

Yes agreed regarding the state of the J cabin on some flights, I too always make sure I leave the seat as I found it, but this a decency that should occur anywhere, not just on some pointy end of a plane.

 

[whereishome]

When kids are involved, everyone wants to play the, "They're just kids" trump card, or "Don't you dare tell me how to raise my kids" card.

Well, given I spend 10hrs a day putting up with cough from other people's kids, I think I can weigh in on this matter. Believe me - I am more than qualified to judge how your child should be behaving and just how they should be dealt with.

And unless you want the windows to blow out from the sudden sound pressure blast, you don't want me dropping my classroom command voice in a plane.

 

[Moody]

Well, given I spend 10hrs a day putting up with cough from other people's kids, I think I can weigh in on this matter. Believe me - I am more than qualified to judge how your child should be behaving and just how they should be dealt with.

And unless you want the windows to blow out from the sudden sound pressure blast, you don't want me dropping my classroom command voice in a plane.

Yeah - one of our kids alerted us to the fact that they had a "shouter", so we had a quiet word with the principal and they quickly modified their behaviour. Shouting at kids is not much better than hitting them - just a different degree of child abuse.

[Disclaimer - I have been know to shout at my kids, but that is not to my credit.]

BOT - as a few posters have pointed out, the underlying problem is with deliberate (not involuntary) behaviour - and adults are far more often guilty of this than children.

 

[Moopere]

Shouting at kids is not much better than hitting them - just a different degree of child abuse.

Oh well, in that case we might as well just beat them then. They'll at least get the message that way and if its basically the same thing at least we'll get a result :shock:

 

[drron]

An interesting subject yet eventually one for which there is no answer.I am guilty of accompanying 4 grandkids in the J cabin on a DONE.Of course they were delightful!
The problem is identifying the problem kids/parents.As for sitting them down the back this does happen to a degree.Unaccompanied kids on QF and DJ are often assigned the back rows.I know I have often been amongst them.
And of course there are the times when there is no fault-I remember a DJ flight to MCY when there was a young mother with an infant she was trying to feed in the A seat.Her 2 year old bored and screaming kid in the B seat and me in C.Simply by getting out the inflight magazine and starting off with the pictures of planes i soon had the toddler quiet to the gratitude of his mother.So rather than complaining,grimacing etc sometimes we as other pax can be of help.