Slightly odd crew SYD - PER

[Choosethedrew]

Flew SYD - PER on Friday 10th February in J and, unusually for QF in my experience, I found the crew a bit off and frosty from the get go and was wondering if this was the norm:

• After the meal, which has now been reduced to a very small amount of food for a transcon (even the bread has been trimmed down to one small slice of stale foccacia!) I asked if there was any more food going. The CC looked aghast and said that there was only one main course catered per passenger, which is not exactly answering the question, but OK
• I then asked whether there was any food left over from Y as that would be fine, the CC repeated that it was one meal loaded per passenger, so no. The CC was working in J not Y but somehow she immediately knew the food situation in Y. I kind of got the argument for a 12 seat J cabin but for 160+ seats or whatever it is in Y...
• I sensed this was going nowhere so politely thanked her anyway
• The CC gave out one glass of wine with the snacks and one with the meal and that was it save tea and coffee, no top ups offered or second run after the meal
• A little later, my partner went to the loo. Whilst waiting, the other CC asked whether he intended to eat his ice cream in a way that he described as somewhat accusatory. Just to be clear, it wasn't an enquiry as to whether he didn't like the flavour or whether there was something wrong with it. He replied that he was letting it thaw and yes he planned to eat it
• The strangest interaction happened to someone across the aisle; I would estimate (and I was awake for the whole flight) that he had a couple of glasses of wine with the meal and then a couple of spirits on ice, certainly the CC wasn't constantly back and forth with drinks like I have seen on some flights, usually BA. He had his earphones on and was engrossed in his device or the IFE. At no point did he look or act even remotely intoxicated or problematic in any way.
• Following a top up request about 3.5 hours in, I noticed the CC was kind of hesitant. She then came over with a small bottle of water and said something to the passenger.
• Obviously I do not know what happened as I did not hear the exchanges but it would appear that the CC refused the chap any more alcohol
• On disembarking at PER, I was walking behind said gent and I could see that he was walking in a perfectly straight line, as I could see the grout lines on the tiles

Clearly I do not know the ins and outs of what was dicussed but it would seem that the CC were a little over zealous in stopping alcohol service and were needlessly grumpy. Is this rare on QF?

 

[RooFlyer]

I guess anyone can have a bad day and there may have been something else going on - maybe with another pax - that might have contributed. I don't like it when it happens, but I can be sympathetic.

As for the alcohol, I guess this is at the discretion of any FA. If they judge, or mis-judge, then that's it.

Is it rare on any airline? I don't think so.

 

[Pushka]

I guess anyone can have a bad day and there may have been something else going on - maybe with another pax - that might have contributed. I don't like it when it happens, but I can be sympathetic.

As for the alcohol, I guess this is at the discretion of any FA. If they judge, or mis-judge, then that's it.

Is it rare on any airline? I don't think so.

Maybe they'd had a bad experience previous flight. I cannot imagine being helpful in customer service if I wasn't feeling the best. Esp headache. They are my Achilles heel.

 

[jb747]

Many drunks can walk a straight line.

 

[Blackadder]

RSA

 

[Frankiesdad]

Flew SYD - PER on Friday 10th February in J and, unusually for QF in my experience, I found the crew a bit off and frosty from the get go and was wondering if this was the norm:

• After the meal, which has now been reduced to a very small amount of food for a transcon (even the bread has been trimmed down to one small slice of stale foccacia!) I asked if there was any more food going. The CC looked aghast and said that there was only one main course catered per passenger, which is not exactly answering the question, but OK
• I then asked whether there was any food left over from Y as that would be fine, the CC repeated that it was one meal loaded per passenger, so no. The CC was working in J not Y but somehow she immediately knew the food situation in Y. I kind of got the argument for a 12 seat J cabin but for 160+ seats or whatever it is in Y...
• I sensed this was going nowhere so politely thanked her anyway
• The CC gave out one glass of wine with the snacks and one with the meal and that was it save tea and coffee, no top ups offered or second run after the meal
• A little later, my partner went to the loo. Whilst waiting, the other CC asked whether he intended to eat his ice cream in a way that he described as somewhat accusatory. Just to be clear, it wasn't an enquiry as to whether he didn't like the flavour or whether there was something wrong with it. He replied that he was letting it thaw and yes he planned to eat it
• The strangest interaction happened to someone across the aisle; I would estimate (and I was awake for the whole flight) that he had a couple of glasses of wine with the meal and then a couple of spirits on ice, certainly the CC wasn't constantly back and forth with drinks like I have seen on some flights, usually BA. He had his earphones on and was engrossed in his device or the IFE. At no point did he look or act even remotely intoxicated or problematic in any way.
• Following a top up request about 3.5 hours in, I noticed the CC was kind of hesitant. She then came over with a small bottle of water and said something to the passenger.
• Obviously I do not know what happened as I did not hear the exchanges but it would appear that the CC refused the chap any more alcohol
• On disembarking at PER, I was walking behind said gent and I could see that he was walking in a perfectly straight line, as I could see the grout lines on the tiles

Clearly I do not know the ins and outs of what was dicussed but it would seem that the CC were a little over zealous in stopping alcohol service and were needlessly grumpy. Is this rare on QF?

Sorry to hear about your experience! Drinks and top ups in J were free flowing when I flew last week same route on the 737.

Anecdotally, I have found Perth based crew more positive and engaged, especially on the westbound sectors… could be the “go home leg” effect. In my experience they are also the only ones to announce where they are based, which I reckon indicates some amount of pride in their work and team.

 

[muppet]

RSA

May need a refresher as the behaviour of the person in question doesn’t seem to match the legal definition of intoxication:

https://www.vgccc.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/Intoxication_guidelines.pdf.pdf

If he’d really drank what the OP suggests he could mostly like drive home too.

 

[PERLHR]

I find the service on the 330 pretty poor between SYD and PER and the other way. I would say it's normal. Overall in my opinion, no matter what others say compared to most European and Asian airlines the QF service is rubbish. I d tend to find the 737 service in biz slightly better. If they don't like their job leave. No one is forcing them to "serve the airline" and I tend now to fly Virgin as it is far better.

 

[RichardMEL]

I find the food interaction interesting. They ALWAYS have heaps of those pretzel mixes for example. Was that even offered? Yes I know it's not exactly food, but it's a snack and the "one meal for pax" thing seems odd - specially as not everyone in Y will have a meal likely (and possibly in J). but at the very least surely they could have offered some of those ssnack mixes. Even still to not even "let me see if there's any left over meals from either cabin" - which I think most would do - specially on a longer sector where there's time - seems odd too. Perhaps someone who just didn't want to be at (or doing) work that day?

half the time I have to decline exttra offers from cabin crew - and that's on short flights.

Seems an off day I guess.. definitely doesn't mirror any experinces I've had tbh

as for the apparent RSA.. that's a very difficult one and I'm hesitant to comment tbh.

Hopefully you got some more food in the lounge on arrival, or in PER itself.

 

[stm1sydney]

was wondering if this was the norm:

Yes. VA far better in J, almost always pro-active in refills, offering extra food from the pantry, PDB. Even the priority boarding works as advertised!

 

[Ade]

RSA

as for the apparent RSA.. that's a very difficult one and I'm hesitant to comment tbh.

Agree with the points that it is difficult to comment/assess the paxs' intoxication situation and the application of RSA. From personal experience, working in retail liquor, two people could judge the level of intoxication differently. When undergoing training myself, I had made a few mistakes in assessing and when training junior staff, I have noticed that *somehow, not sure why/how* the age of the assessor has an impact on the assessment itself. Young workers were quick to assess drunkenness, while older workers were correct in more instances

I'm a conservative assessor - meaning, in early days of the job, I have had difficulty in assessing the difference between a speech impediment and intoxication. As I put in more experience, I can now assess to a certain degree of accuracy.

The above being said, the FA who assessed (an assumption at this point because of the water bottle handed to pax instead of booze) might have had some prior experiences of paxs' acting a certain way that made the FA decide to stop service. Or the FA simply wanted to err on the side of caution and refuse service (ideally, delay service, if the flight were longer) etc

There is, to a certain extent, right & wrong ways of assessing - but it's a very personal thing. The liquor laws are also designed to support the outcome of assessment rather than question it. Meaning, if I assessed a customer was too intoxicated to remain in the premises, my manager will not overrule my decision, rather support what I assessed and request the patron to exit the premises quietly. Now, this might be seen as "overuse/incorrect use of power", but as mentioned earlier, it is considered *better* to err on the side of caution.

Many drunks can walk a straight line.

Very true. Different individuals process/hold liquor differently. I know of some regular customers who constantly *pass* assessment done by a different staff member and get served, but always *fails* when I assess and I refuse service -this is to the extent that those customers won't talk to me when I'm on the floor.

Following a top up request about 3.5 hours in, I noticed the CC was kind of hesitant. She then came over with a small bottle of water and said something to the passenger.

The baseline recommendation is that 1 standard drink takes close to an hour to exit the system. So on a four hour flight, if a pax has had 4 standard drinks, they *technically* be refused service on the grounds of # of drinks/hour. However, the food consumed along with the drink should be taken into consideration. And there is the whole discussion on how booze affects when on air, in a metal tube, cabin pressuer, etc etc.

 

[ferntree]

Flew SYD - PER on Friday 10th February in J and, unusually for QF in my experience, I found the crew a bit off and frosty from the get go and was wondering if this was the norm:

We had a similar experience last year flying on an A330, SYD or MEL (I don't recall which) to Cairns.

A toasted cheese and ham sandwich for lunch (yes, a bare sandwish, no frills). A chocolate (a single chocolate, not even a chocolate bar) for dessert, washed down with about a third of a glass of wine. No top ups offered. When I asked for more wine, I was eventually and grudgingly given about another quarter glass.

I can only surmise that crews are so demoralised these days by the whole Qantas experience that they just don't bother.

 

[mannej]

May need a refresher as the behaviour of the person in question doesn’t seem to match the legal definition of intoxication:

https://www.vgccc.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/Intoxication_guidelines.pdf.pdf

If he’d really drank what the OP suggests he could mostly like drive home too.

It’s a bit hard to judge based off the third party information provided, however application (or non application) or RSA is always contentious

 

[PERLHR]

Maybe they'd had a bad experience previous flight. I cannot imagine being helpful in customer service if I wasn't feeling the best. Esp headache. They are my Achilles heel.

We had a similar experience last year flying on an A330, SYD or MEL (I don't recall which) to Cairns.

A toasted cheese and ham sandwich for lunch (yes, a bare sandwish, no frills). A chocolate (a single chocolate, not even a chocolate bar) for dessert, washed down with about a third of a glass of wine. No top ups offered. When I asked for more wine, I was eventually and grudgingly given about another quarter glass.

I can only surmise that crews are so demoralised these days by the whole Qantas experience that they just don't bother.

Well I get rather tired of that excuse as if it makes it ok. It's not ok and nobody is asking them if they want to be in the service industry. Maybe for a project I'll ask on boarding every flight."are you happy in your job". ..could.be interesting! They will be more cheesed off if the biz paying pax jus decide enough is enough and fly with others. If people pay thousands for a flight give them a drink or two for goodness sake and stop acting like they are nanny state police control always!

 

[JackMiles]

The baseline recommendation is that 1 standard drink takes close to an hour to exit the system. So on a four hour flight, if a pax has had 4 standard drinks, they *technically* be refused service on the grounds of # of drinks/hour.

I'm having trouble following this - did you leave out a word or phrase in the above? As it is, seems to be saying a person could be refused drinks if they've had 4 over a 4 hour period. Or if they have 4 drinks then 4 hours must elapse from time of first drink before more is allowed. But that would mean we are talking about limiting pax to a BAV of 1 std drink (averaged over time, maybe), wouldn't it? Intoxicated is not that same as a BAV somewhere, say, between 0.05-0.10.

 

[Quickstatus]

May need a refresher

It's a bit different in an aluminium tube at 40,000 feet . It's not as though a bouncer is available to toss someone out. Nor would I want a diversion. Nor would I want related behavioural issues.

Also the effects at 40,000 feet is different to ground level.

Who knows how much EtOH the gentleman had prior to boarding - a valid question but unanswerable.

Question then is: when is the limit. Unless this can be answered definitively, I don't think we can ever say that the application of the midair aluminium tube RSA was incorrect.

 

[Ade]

I'm having trouble following this - did you leave out a word or phrase in the above? As it is, seems to be saying a person could be refused drinks if they've had 4 over a 4 hour period. Or if they have 4 drinks then 4 hours must elapse from time of first drink before more is allowed. But that would mean we are talking about limiting pax to a BAV of 1 std drink (averaged over time, maybe), wouldn't it? Intoxicated is not that same as a BAV somewhere, say, between 0.05-0.10.

So, my understanding of the logic is - 1 std drink will take upto an hour to leave the system - could take more or less time depending on the individual, benchmark is 1 hour. However, if one were to walk up to a bar and order shots of a spirit (which is 1 std drink), then the barkeep will limit to 2x shots/individual, or sometimes even go upto 3x shots/individual. This means that the said individual has had 2x or 3x std drinks within the hour. After this the barkeep will no longer serve shots and will recommend a light beer or a soft drink or water, wait for close to an hour before serving any more spirits to the said individual.

The same logic could have applied in the case of the FA. The FA, having already served 4x std drinks to the pax in the 3.5 hour window (which is mathematically under), might have thought to stop/refuse service as the pax and offered water instead.

As mentioned earlier, the rules around alcohol service is aligned with the individual who is serving. I understand your question regarding 4 drinks within 4 hours and the possibility of the booze leaving the individual in that time period, which then opens up the possibility of drinking more. May be the FA thought it would be better to limit service, for this or any other reason, we will never know. This also the reason why I mentioned that had the flight been longer, the FA might have served the pax later.

Re : BAV & intoxication - agreed, that intoxicated is not as same as BAV 0.05 or over. However, given this happens in a aircraft, the FA might have thought it's best to refuse/stop service - which may or may not be the right thing to do in that particular instance, but that's what seems to have happened.

Post automatically merged: Feb 14, 2023

But that would mean we are talking about limiting pax to a BAV of 1 std drink (averaged over time, maybe), wouldn't it?

Not really ... RSA *allows* to serve upto 3x std per hour (in a bar/pub scene) where the barkeep makes a decision based on what the barkeep assess. So one can get up to 3x std drinks per hour and be totally fine. But if the said individual, wanted the 4th drink, the barkeep might refuse and suggest an alternative instead.

 

[Ade]

It's a bit different in an aluminium tube at 40,000 feet . It's not as though a bouncer is available to toss someone out. Nor would I want a diversion. Nor would I want related behavioural issues.

Also the effects at 40,000 feet is different to ground level.

Who knows how much EtOH the gentleman had prior to boarding - a valid question but unanswerable.

Question then is: when is the limit. Unless this can be answered definitively, I don't think we can ever say that the application of the midair aluminium tube RSA was incorrect.

My thoughts exactly and better worded, might I add, @Quickstatus . The FA might have taken the decision to prevent an incident and refuse service and I'm fairly confident that the CSM would have backed the FA, if the pax raised any questions/concerns. Not suggesting that the pax would, in any form or shape.

 

[Quickstatus]

better worded

Sorry and I better get in before our resident grammar police @JessicaTam gives me a strike!!
Please replace "when is the limit" with "what is the limit"

 

[Pushka]

Well I get rather tired of that excuse as if it makes it ok. It's not ok and nobody is asking them if they want to be in the service industry. Maybe for a project I'll ask on boarding every flight."are you happy in your job". ..could.be interesting! They will be more cheesed off if the biz paying pax jus decide enough is enough and fly with others. If people pay thousands for a flight give them a drink or two for goodness sake and stop acting like they are nanny state police control always!

Well, moot point as they are running the show. In reality we don't know the true circumstances. What appears to be might not be the case. I've had Jetstar run out of food in a non full J cabin on an international flight. We had no lunch or dinner. 12 hour flight. They finally scabbed up a small Y meal. We don't fly with them anymore. It's our choice. They couldn't care.