So what routes will VA cut ?

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look at it this way, if an airline advertised a return fare from SYD to LAX for $1142(per adult). Kids are very roughly 75%, so 2a + 2c = $3997. Bet they would get many more takers if they advertised $999 (for everyone) + the power of price points is enormous. Having worked in retail for 25 years, I can tell you, $999 is about $200 or more, less than $1000, in the mind.

Maybe a good way to move seats, is to say ...

1 seat (booked at same time, same itinerary) $999
2, $979 each
3, $959 each
4, $939 each
5, $919 each
6, $899 each

or instead of dropping price, give something away, like extra ff pts, increasing for each person the more in booking.

or offer the 10th seat free. It's amazing how one person, can get 9 others to go, if he/she is getting a free ticket.

So first you advocated a price rise for group bookings for increased revenue, now you want a price reduction for all? Opposite approaches. They're already reducing price on some routes to try to get bookers. But if you reduce everyone's price including individuals it means a more significant loss of revenue, rather than only giving a group discount as the child's price does.

Sure, that could equally be spread to groups in general - but sometimes there are groups of individuals where overall cost is less of a concern since everyone's paying for themselves, which is different from one family getting lumbered with the entire cost. So again, a greater hit to revenue and less specifically targeted including more who aren't so price impacted so price sensitive.
 
These rumours of the A330s going don't seem to make sense to me. I just don't really see the sense in it. Maybe reducing the number in the fleet depending when the leases come up for renewal?

The product is outstanding, it would be sad to see it go.
 
These rumours of the A330s going don't seem to make sense to me. I just don't really see the sense in it. Maybe reducing the number in the fleet depending when the leases come up for renewal?

The product is outstanding, it would be sad to see it go.

Agreed I don’t see the A330s going, maybe the routes they are flying on though.

I wonder if VA would take a gamble and open up Tokyo instead of problem plagued HKG....? Just referencing the thread in the QF forum about Haneda granting new slots to AU airlines...

Japan / AU travel is booming...
 
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I wonder if VA would take a gamble and open up Tokyo instead of problem plagued HKG....? Just referencing the thread in the QF forum about Haneda granting new slots to AU airlines...

Japan / AU travel is booming...

Also provide connections with DL's new flights through HND?
 
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VA would need a formal tie up with NH for HND to work. While possible, It doesn't seem to be on the horizon. VA and NH only currently has a interline agreement for domestic destinations on both ends of the route.
 
I don’t think it’s counter intuitive.

It’s really taking a leaf from the QF playbook, build up a customer base with seasonal flights to test the market and go from there. They’ve built back up from nothing a lot of leisure markets by picking up all the premium pax. VA could put in play a similar-ish strategy that suits their new brand positioning.

Also VA aren’t going to make more money by leaving planes on the ground are they... they just need to right size. So you might see some routes get more frequency as some are cut. Makes sense to me.
You'd be looking at eastern seaboard reductions. GET is already gone, most of what is left ex-PER should be fairly profitable and/or lucrative to attracting passengers ex-East coast capitals.
Agree with previous posters, look toward relatively minor destinations with a single daily service. Low hanging fruit - unfortunately for those communities the price they pay will be higher to travel. Or they will have to look in to alternatives that don't involve flying.

I was quite interested arriving VA just after midnight into PER recently to see just how many planes were on the ground overnight (VA and QF) but the difference is I am noticing more mining-type destinations on QF departure boards, and not on VA's. (Anecdotal of course).

Accept not many 737s fly between midnight and 6am, but if the A330s are stationary too, that can't be making VA money.
 
These rumours of the A330s going don't seem to make sense to me. I just don't really see the sense in it. Maybe reducing the number in the fleet depending when the leases come up for renewal?

The product is outstanding, it would be sad to see it go.
heard from a few people at VA that VA paid top dollar for A330 leases. If any of the A330 leases are coming to end, then surely, the new leasing rates would be much lower, as think there are many parked around the world. Didn't Jet in India have quite a few ?
 
If VA mothballed their 332s, they'd be a great business opportunity to start a new Australian airline using all the VA leased-and-parked fleet. 332s, E90s and ATRs sounds like an excellent mix for a new airline plus they're all already Australian registered! The business could even replace QQ as wet lease operators for all those marginal VA regional routes and VA wouldn't have to feel the sting of paying QF to do their flying.
 
If VA mothballed their 332s, they'd be a great business opportunity to start a new Australian airline using all the VA leased-and-parked fleet. 332s, E90s and ATRs sounds like an excellent mix for a new airline plus they're all already Australian registered! The business could even replace QQ as wet lease operators for all those marginal VA regional routes and VA wouldn't have to feel the sting of paying QF to do their flying.
why would they mothball them if still paying leases ? & you forgot one small thing called an AOC. Nauru's AOC is an Australian AOC, but they only currently have older 737s on it. Think Chathams have a ex NZ ATR on their AOC, BUT last thing we need is another new airline flying in OZ, whether on an OZ aoc or an NZ AOC, when lots of cutbacks in the works due to the economy.
 
Well I was posting tongue-in-cheek but if you want to take it seriously then yes, a new operator would need a new AOC along with various other things.

And VA are still paying leases on their stored E90s and ATRs so what's stopping them doing the same with the 330s?
 
Well I was posting tongue-in-cheek but if you want to take it seriously then yes, a new operator would need a new AOC along with various other things.

And VA are still paying leases on their stored E90s and ATRs so what's stopping them doing the same with the 330s?
apparently the E90s cost the same to operate as B738s, with a lot more seats. VA has to some how get rid of some aircraft. Can they sublease them, for less than they are paying in leases ?
 
I was quite interested arriving VA just after midnight into PER recently to see just how many planes were on the ground overnight (VA and QF) but the difference is I am noticing more mining-type destinations on QF departure boards, and not on VA's. (Anecdotal of course).

Accept not many 737s fly between midnight and 6am, but if the A330s are stationary too, that can't be making VA money.
Qantas has a lot more flights to the North West, particularly the RPT destinations (i.e. PHE, KTA). Virgin do a fair share of charter travel though again, not as much as Qantas. At least they own the majority (or all) of their F100s. Stopping GET has freed another aircraft up as well, for any sort of flying required.

Virgin do some unique charter flying which Qantas does not. Such as from Busselton & Geraldton (ferrying empty on the day of from PER).
 
heard from a few people at VA that VA paid top dollar for A330 leases. If any of the A330 leases are coming to end, then surely, the new leasing rates would be much lower, as think there are many parked around the world. Didn't Jet in India have quite a few ?
Assuming that's true. Well if there are many parked around the world then they should be in a strong position to renegotiate the current leasing rates...and not have the expense of any cabin changes.

Additionally, as I've previously mentioned on this board I don't think anyone at Virgin Australia would be too keen on taking on pre-loved A330s given how that went last time.

Anyone remember -XFAwful and -XFBroken? I sure do...
 
Assuming that's true. Well if there are many parked around the world then they should be in a strong position to renegotiate the current leasing rates...and not have the expense of any cabin changes.

Additionally, as I've previously mentioned on this board I don't think anyone at Virgin Australia would be too keen on taking on pre-loved A330s given how that went last time.

Anyone remember -XFAwful and -XFBroken? I sure do...
yes but when do current leases expire ? That's the big question.
 
yes but when do current leases expire ? That's the big question.

Supposedly 2022 to 2024 (10 year lease). So 3 - 5 years for the A330s depending on when they're delivered.
 
Supposedly 2022 to 2024 (10 year lease). So 3 - 5 years for the A330s depending on when they're delivered.

Hence my comment that if VA park the 330s now, they'll be paying leases on what could constitute an airline's entire fleet in stored aircraft. It might be cheaper than flying them and making losses but good golly gosh I think it's an indication of a total fleet planning failure.
 
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Ive seen a lot of comments about Mildura and a few other daily regional flights.... Yeah most of the time only half full. I am a regular to Mildura, every 3 weeks at minimum and maybe once a month my flight is nearly full but that doesn't mean it should be axed...

I am no economic airline guru by no means.. and I don't think that in most cases they would be making much money, if any at all. I do know resourcing though and utilisation. Its clear working on the Mildura example 9:40am flight and 11:20 flight return that the aircraft if not used would probably just be sitting there... Then there is the case of maximising your ground crew and pilots.... if you breaking even or loosing a bit on some flights the busier days and the days when REX or Qantas Link have to cancel.... surely that is worth it... Plus squeezing your staffing resources...

Obvious answer is more Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra even Adelaide routes.. but apart from more frequent peak time flights to Syd or Bris then the options are limited....

Other than a smaller aircraft you have to utilise your 737 fleet...

Like I said, I'm no guru but just putting a differing view on it...?

Thoughts...
 
Speculating ways for VA to save money>
Maybe they should just cut their (HK) losses, and return the 330 back to their owner.
Offload Tiger.
Time schedule flights so that they do not fly off to the same destination as rival QF.
Try to get a codeshare with CI on the Au - NZ flight, and drop their own plane AKL - BNE vv, and let CI carry VA pax under the VA/CI flight code share. **(after all QF and OZ have an agreement for flight code share between Au and TPE edit: ICN, and OZ is in *A).**
No need to have newspapers on the racks next to their gates, if VA has to pay for them.
 
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I wish VA would sign a partnership agreement with ZL. They could rationalize overlap (Albury and Mildura come to mind) while retaining the network effect of all of the regional destinations. Rex could also save some money by closing their lounges in the capital cities and perhaps fill some more seats if VA can redeem points on flights that struggle to be filled. Having said that Rex makes money... so maybe don’t break it?
 
Ive seen a lot of comments about Mildura and a few other daily regional flights.... Yeah most of the time only half full. I am a regular to Mildura, every 3 weeks at minimum and maybe once a month my flight is nearly full but that doesn't mean it should be axed...

I am no economic airline guru by no means.. and I don't think that in most cases they would be making much money, if any at all. I do know resourcing though and utilisation. Its clear working on the Mildura example 9:40am flight and 11:20 flight return that the aircraft if not used would probably just be sitting there... Then there is the case of maximising your ground crew and pilots.... if you breaking even or loosing a bit on some flights the busier days and the days when REX or Qantas Link have to cancel.... surely that is worth it... Plus squeezing your staffing resources...

Obvious answer is more Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra even Adelaide routes.. but apart from more frequent peak time flights to Syd or Bris then the options are limited....

Other than a smaller aircraft you have to utilise your 737 fleet...

Like I said, I'm no guru but just putting a differing view on it...?

Thoughts...

That’s the challenge that they face.

They are sending gas guzzling jets to skinny thin routes where they really should have a smaller more fuel efficient turboprop running.

Basic example to make a point:
VA sends a 737 to Mildura with 40 people / loses a bucket load.
QF sends a Q400 to Mildura with 30 people / still makes money.

So they either exit, rationalise or down gauge these sorts of routes.

Problem is the ejets suffered from engineering and unreliability issues and were binned. Sure they were more comfy and marginally faster than an ATR/Q400 but VA found out the hard way people didn’t really care about that.

Then the ATR experiment which VA just couldn’t make work so a lot of the fleet were mothballed. They’ve been more quiet about why the ATR’s didn’t work.

So they just don’t have the fleet flexibility anymore to deal with these routes.
 
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