So what routes will VA cut ?

[pauly7]

Time schedule flights so that they do not fly off to the same destination as rival QF.

This one is a catch 22 right

The number of times I fly into smaller airports and there are QF, VA, JQ planes lined up next to each other, heading to same destination leaving within 5 mins of each other.

QF/JQ I get - the QF group have successfully positioned each of these offerings at either end of the price scale, they are picking up very different pax. So they can get away with scheduling very closely, when people want to fly.

VA remember used to be the ‘JQ’ offering in AU in this scenario and not that long ago, when JQ were flying around a motley bunch of some silver, some all white 717s that QF couldn’t even bother to repaint! Most people thought JQ would flop, but then JB basically handed JQ VA’s old customer base on a silver platter and tried to move VA up market and we know where that has ended up (insert other VA Financials thread).

Cut to today, VA doesn’t have a strong clear positioning, and they certainly don’t have the strength to create new markets or persuade people to fly at different times or places.

So they need to fly when people want / have been trained to fly to stay in the picture.

 

[openseat]

Then the ATR experiment which VA just couldn’t make work so a lot of the fleet were mothballed. They’ve been more quiet about why the ATR’s didn’t work.

So they just don’t have the fleet flexibility anymore to deal with these routes.

The ATR problem is something that has me stumped. Was out just another CEO brain fade, or was it the board that pushed the company into it.?

With other routes, I'm most of all interested in HIR. It has low loading but seems to get good freight given the time it takes to unload in HIR. The airfare is always over $550 ow from BNE. Which is a pretty high minimum fare for a 3hour flight. Others have mentioned it's subsidised, which may save it.

 

[Pleb Status]

I acknowledge that this thread is just completely unsubstantiated speculation, but is there any credible source stating that the A332 are under threat of leaving the fleet?

If the HKG routes are given the chop, the A332 should just roll back onto domestic routes as they were utilised prior to the Asian expansion....

 

[Daver6]

I would have thought if the A332s get the chop and all VA can offer on the coast to coast services is the current 738 J option, then they're literally handing that to QF for premium pax. They'd either need to keep the A332s or upgrade J on the 738s to remain competitive in that market.

 

[HS-TQE]

I would have thought if the A332s get the chop and all VA can offer on the coast to coast services is the current 738 J option, then they're literally handing that to QF for premium pax. They'd either need to keep the A332s or upgrade J on the 738s to remain competitive in that market.

Supposedly (assumably) the A330s are on a 10 year lease each. First of the "factory fresh" A330s came in 2012 with the last in 2014. That means the leases start expiring between 2022 and 2024 (3 to 5 years from now)

VA may as well roll the A330s back onto SYD/MEL-PER if Scurrah and the team eventually decide to axe HKG all-together. Which is what they were doing before the HNA enforced HKG experiment.

If they get the finances sorted by then, a suggestion is to defer the MAX8's (again) and negotiate at changing some of the MAX10 order to 'leased' 789s as a A330 replacement once the A330s come off lease. This would at lease reduce the WB fleet to one supplier (Boeing).

 

[cambriamarsh]

Supposedly (assumably) the A330s are on a 10 year lease each. First of the "factory fresh" A330s came in 2012 with the last in 2014. That means the leases start expiring between 2022 and 2024 (3 to 5 years from now)

VA may as well roll the A330s back onto SYD/MEL-PER if Scurrah and the team eventually decide to axe HKG all-together. Which is what they were doing before the HNA enforced HKG experiment.

If they get the finances sorted by then, a suggestion is to defer the MAX8's (again) and negotiate at changing some of the MAX10 order to 'leased' 789s as a A330 replacement once the A330s come off lease. This would at lease reduce the WB fleet to one supplier (Boeing).

I'm struggling to understand why the ATRs haven't worked for VA. NZ has a fleet of 29 and uses them on many shorter or seconds routes and appear to make money. I know they're noisy but the game is about baking a dollar, not just satisfying the frequent flyer (goes away to wash mouth out with soap and water).

 

[iRobbo]

Think there might be some safety concerns with the ATR’s - might have meant easier to park than take the media consequences. Yes, I know they are still flying elsewhere in the world

 

[cambriamarsh]

Think there might be some safety concerns with the ATR’s - might have meant easier to park than take the media consequences. Yes, I know they are still flying elsewhere in the world

Goodness me, what does that say about the NZ certifies??

 

[Saab34]

CASA slapped many restrictions on them after the Elevator accident.

Those days are long gone now, and there would surely be some lucrative regional private/government contracts out there they could serve.

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

CASA slapped many restrictions on them after the Elevator accident.

Those days are long gone now, and there would surely be some lucrative regional private/government contracts out there they could serve.

Hevilift picked up BNE-MOV with one or two of the VA ATRs so it can be made to work, but I wonder what Hevilift are paying for the ATRs (if they're effectively taking them off VA's hands) vs. what VA are paying to the lessor.

 

[pauly7]

CASA slapped many restrictions on them after the Elevator accident.

Those days are long gone now, and there would surely be some lucrative regional private/government contracts out there they could serve.

Oh that rings a bell, remember a crew member breaking their leg or something and then the damaged aircraft flew for a few days after before VA pickup up it was damaged....

 

[dajop]

I would have thought if the A332s get the chop and all VA can offer on the coast to coast services is the current 738 J option, then they're literally handing that to QF for premium pax. They'd either need to keep the A332s or upgrade J on the 738s to remain competitive in that market.

Maybe that's not entirely illogical. Whilst premium cabins bring in premium dollars, it's easy to forget the amount of plane real estate they take up - and thus are a costly proposition. And let's face it, if VA and we want to be honest, people will still pay more to fly QF than they will to fly VA. On their SYD/MEL-PER flights they could have on-board chefs, chaffeur transfers, and serve up Krug on board in business class , and people would still pay a premium to fly QF.

 

[Bagpuss]

I can't see the A330's going prior to the end of the lease. Otherwise that's more aircraft parked if they couldn't sub lease.
The comments of Virgin paying "top dollar" are interesting. I assume this is because the A330's were in demand a probably didn't get much discount if anything. That said, if true other airlines are probably paying "top dollar" too.
I can't see Virgin pulling out of Hobart of Launceston.
I have read comments they should pull out of Gold Coast, but my understand was that they had captured the business class market when Qantas pulled out and instated Jetstar. Though I do believe Qantas are now back on board.
A possibility is pulling out of Uluru as I imagine it's a tourist destination primarily, though Tiger (or the Tiger replacement) could fill in.
I expect the main cuts would come from Bali and New Zealand with the Australia Domestic market tweaked.
I've always thought if SQ pulled a PER - SIN rotation in favour of VA replacing ith a A330 would be profitable. Though I doubt SQ would want to do it.

 

[exceladdict]

I can't see the A330's going prior to the end of the lease. Otherwise that's more aircraft parked if they couldn't sub lease.
The comments of Virgin paying "top dollar" are interesting. I assume this is because the A330's were in demand a probably didn't get much discount if anything. That said, if true other airlines are probably paying "top dollar" too.
I can't see Virgin pulling out of Hobart of Launceston.
I have read comments they should pull out of Gold Coast, but my understand was that they had captured the business class market when Qantas pulled out and instated Jetstar. Though I do believe Qantas are now back on board.
A possibility is pulling out of Uluru as I imagine it's a tourist destination primarily, though Tiger (or the Tiger replacement) could fill in.
I expect the main cuts would come from Bali and New Zealand with the Australia Domestic market tweaked.
I've always thought if SQ pulled a PER - SIN rotation in favour of VA replacing ith a A330 would be profitable. Though I doubt SQ would want to do it.

While SQ have recently rejigged their whole AU-based sales team, they previously emphasised how much through traffic they hold ex-AU, especially ex-PER (until NH launched they claimed 80% of Japan bound traffic ex PER).

As others have said I think the shareholders would be keener for VA to feed rather than compete with their international routes.

 

[jakeseven7]

Goodness me, what does that say about the NZ certifies??

That Air NZ are more experienced operators of turbo props than VA....

 

[ozfflyer]

Maybe that's not entirely illogical. Whilst premium cabins bring in premium dollars, it's easy to forget the amount of plane real estate they take up - and thus are a costly proposition. And let's face it, if VA and we want to be honest, people will still pay more to fly QF than they will to fly VA. On their SYD/MEL-PER flights they could have on-board chefs, chaffeur transfers, and serve up Krug on board in business class , and people would still pay a premium to fly QF.

Who'll pay more to fly QF ? Lately have been looking at flights SYD/MEL/BNE & VA are often most expensive & to LAX, VA are often more than QF, which might be partly because QF have 13 flights a week BNE/LAX nonstop in Jan, vs 6/week for VA.

 

[ozfflyer]

I think Tiger had an image problem, which JQ has to a lesser extent, no more no less.

 

[pauly7]

I think Tiger had an image problem, which JQ has to a lesser extent, no more no less.

Has, not had!

Tiger was grounded for safety concerns. JQ was not. This still hangs over their head.

Tiger reliability and OTA/D is abysmal on all measures. JQ certainly isn’t leading the pack but much better.

Therefore Tiger = unreliable, unsafe (fading I think now as groundings were a while ago) to consumers.

 

[dajop]

Who'll pay more to fly QF ? Lately have been looking at flights SYD/MEL/BNE & VA are often most expensive & to LAX, VA are often more than QF, which might be partly because QF have 13 flights a week BNE/LAX nonstop in Jan, vs 6/week for VA.

There's more to both airlines route networks than LAX. VA have said that LAX is doing well for them, no doubt on the back of the DL partnership, as DL have only 1 flight a day for their customers vs 3 for UA and even more for QF/AA.

 

[ozfflyer]

There's more to both airlines route networks than LAX. VA have said that LAX is doing well for them, no doubt on the back of the DL partnership, as DL have only 1 flight a day for their customers vs 3 for UA and even more for QF/AA.

ok but who wants to fly anywhere via DXB ? That was one big mistake QF made.