The 6:30am BNE-SYD is gone and I am not on it [No ESTA]

[JohnK]

You have a ESTA now, but did you have it before check in closed? They probably added the note that you didn't hence you were denied check in. given your timeline of events if they have notated it in the system it won't look to favourable for you.

I wasn't being cheeky. It was a comment for next trip. You shouldn't look to put me down every opportunity.

Tbe peanut gallery with the cheal shots just doesn't end. You (not you personally) don't have to respond to this thread. Another one ignore.

 

[nlagalle]

I wasn't being cheeky. It was a comment for next trip. You shouldn't look to put me down every opportunity.

Sorry a might have helped in that post ... and not looking to put you down either...

 

[Boca68]

You are entitled to have that opinion. I don't and we are not likely to agree here so no point carrying on back and forth. You are not going to achieve anything by responding to everyone of my posts.

I now have an ESTA that is valid 2 years right? And I would like an explanation from VA customer relations on why they think I was refused check in. I am hoping the staff on duty at the time have filed some report? Wait and see.

Well, John, if you only wanted everyone to agree with your predicament, then why open the thread to discussion?

I tried to read most of thread, but crying foul of VA in this case, can't agree with you. I'm surprised such an experienced flyer would have made an elementary mistake. And yes, maybe VA 'could have' been more lenient, but the fines imposed on them for letting you board and possibly be sent back are foremost in their mind. (believe the fines are about $5k USD minimum per passenger)

 

[JohnK]

Well, John, if you only wanted everyone to agree with your predicament, then why open the thread to discussion?

I tried to read most of thread, but crying foul of VA in this case, can't agree with you. I'm surprised such an experienced flyer would have made an elementary mistake. And yes, maybe VA 'could have' been more lenient, but the fines imposed on them for letting you board and possibly be sent back are foremost in their mind. (believe the fines are about $5k USD minimum per passenger)

I agree with you. If the people looking to purely say "good riddance" had stayed away then this thread would been useful and not so lengthy. They chose to post their cheap shots anyway.

For what it's worth Virgin would not have been fined had they taken me to SYD domestic? Without ESTA I could not have checked in for international flight in SYD and therefore no fine for Virgin right?

 

[boomy]

could potentially? but I'll go back to my other scenario - thwey "bend the rules" and re-open the flight (which may be against SOP's) get him checked in then the flight is late as a result. the people on that flight miss their connections becasause an avoidable late departure.. more people lose out and are angry at VA.

I don't see it necessarily as bending the rules. There can be specific rules for opening flights. Don't think other airline agents are bending the rules all the time.
Regarding missing connections I'll ask you again, how do other airlines manage to do it?
Check QF on time arrival compared to VA.

So you are talking about domestic flights against an international one where there are different rules in place.

The rule for discounted Dom is loss of fare for no show, very straightforward, same as Int. It was an example of thinking outside the box, trying to make pax happy instead of sticking blindly to the fine print and avoid making them spending extra hundreds of dollars. That should have been the next step after the OP missed his flight. Trying to talk and reach an agreement that would somehow work in everyone's favour.

If the system doesn't allow short checkin then what else can the check in agents do?

This is the point of this thread, for me at least. VA should learn from experiences like the OP's and think maybe can change the system a bit so pax who are 10 min late won't have to give up on their whole trip.

The OP made mistake with ESTA, he will never do it again. Maybe VA could also do better to help and can learn from this incident to improve their system.

 

[Milboo]

Maybe it was all for the best. Not sure when you were flying back but VA1 was cancelled today which is going to cause a plane shortage in LAX.

 

[ozmille]

ETA should be free, it is free in the GDS at least

 

[greenfish]

ETA should be free, it is free in the GDS at least

The ETA (not ESTA) is free but has an AUD20 service charge:

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa/Appl/Electronic-travel-authority

 

[MEL_Traveller]

For what it's worth Virgin would not have been fined had they taken me to SYD domestic? Without ESTA I could not have checked in for international flight in SYD and therefore no fine for Virgin right?

No fine, only the cost of getting you back home to BNE in the event your ESTA hadn't cleared and you were left 'stranded' in SYD.

 

[nlagalle]

I don't see it necessarily as bending the rules. There can be specific rules for opening flights. Don't think other airline agents are bending the rules all the time.
Regarding missing connections I'll ask you again, how do other airlines manage to do it?
Check QF on time arrival compared to VA.

I believe VA has the upper hand OTA lately.. of course it changes from month to month.

So if there as specific rules, what should they be? you could make a rule book so think it'd be pointless.

The rule for discounted Dom is loss of fare for no show, very straightforward, same as Int. It was an example of thinking outside the box, trying to make pax happy instead of sticking blindly to the fine print and avoid making them spending extra hundreds of dollars. That should have been the next step after the OP missed his flight. Trying to talk and reach an agreement that would somehow work in everyone's favour.

Issue here it isn't a Dom fare. It's the domestic leg of an international fare. there is a difference. the other problem was even the next flight would not have gotten him to SYD on time to make his connection..

This is the point of this thread, for me at least. VA should learn from experiences like the OP's and think maybe can change the system a bit so pax who are 10 min late won't have to give up on their whole trip.

The OP made mistake with ESTA, he will never do it again. Maybe VA could also do better to help and can learn from this incident to improve their system.

What you are also forgetting is the aspect of the people already checked in here. Had they re-opened the flight, that could have resulted in a delay which meant other may have missed connections. what happens to them? They'll be angry at VA for allowing someone to check in late.

 

[PLANT]

Can we get this thread on Bet 365..... I'm all in for 50 pages on ESTA

 

[JohnK]

No fine, only the cost of getting you back home to BNE in the event your ESTA hadn't cleared and you were left 'stranded' in SYD.

By the way thanks for the discussion. You and a few others have been really helpful bouncing around ideas.

 

[boomy]

I believe VA has the upper hand OTA lately.. of course it changes from month to month.

So if there as specific rules, what should they be? you could make a rule book so think it'd be pointless

I've suggested some guidelines before. If others do it successfully then we know it can be done but I know it's easier to raise problems than finding solutions.

Issue here it isn't a Dom fare. It's the domestic leg of an international fare. there is a difference. the other problem was even the next flight would not have gotten him to SYD on time to make his connection..

The issue is the OP was asked to pay huge fee "by the book". I say it could be done differently, if there is a will there is a way. Maybe book VA1 for next day (if there is spot) and charge only change fee. Trying to be creative instead of taking the easy way. VA may won the battle here but they can loose the war if the OP gets one bad treatment too many. I've been there myself, moved back from DJ to QF after two bad years, only because of poor customer service.

What you are also forgetting is the aspect of the people already checked in here. Had they re-opened the flight, that could have resulted in a delay which meant other may have missed connections. what happens to them? They'll be angry at VA for allowing someone to check in late.

The key word is 'may'. It's relatively easy to check. Missing connection usually caused by longer delay, not 10-20 min, otherwise connection wouldn't be valid in the first place. But even for short connections there are creative solutions. Just few weeks ago I had 35min connection (due to delay of incoming aircraft) on OS in VIE. They brought special car to pick me up from the plane, going though fast track passport control and then to the next plane, all in 12 min.
Like I said, if there is a will there is a way...

 

[newmarket]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

As the ESTA is valid for 2 years it makes sense to get the ESTA close to the departure date. This increases the risk of forgetting to do so especially if the ticket is an advance purchase.

Great point, but it only costs US$14.

 

[nlagalle]

I've suggested some guidelines before. If others do it successfully then we know it can be done but I know it's easier to raise problems than finding solutions.

The issue is the OP was asked to pay huge fee "by the book". I say it could be done differently, if there is a will there is a way. Maybe book VA1 for next day (if there is spot) and charge only change fee. Trying to be creative instead of taking the easy way. VA may won the battle here but they can loose the war if the OP gets one bad treatment too many. I've been there myself, moved back from DJ to QF after two bad years, only because of poor customer service.

No he was asked to pay the fare difference and change fee. pretty standard with all airlines. but of course you bend the rules here then everyone wants special treatment if they miss a flight. And given he was booked to return straight away flying out the next day VA1 wouldn't have worked either.

The key word is 'may'. It's relatively easy to check. Missing connection usually caused by longer delay, not 10-20 min, otherwise connection wouldn't be valid in the first place. But even for short connections there are creative solutions. Just few weeks ago I had 35min connection (due to delay of incoming aircraft) on OS in VIE. They brought special car to pick me up from the plane, going though fast track passport control and then to the next plane, all in 12 min.
Like I said, if there is a will there is a way...

A departure delay of 20 mins can blow out to more than 30 mins if there is delays along the way. But again, you are asking to potentially delay others for one person. of course then the onus is on VA to accomodate them because they made the flight depart late as the decided to check someone in late.. It's a knock on effect.

 

[Conrad_S]

Can we get this thread on Bet 365..... I'm all in for 50 pages on ESTA

I'm obliged to insert the "bet responsibly" thing here and put me down for 41 by cob Friday.

At the risk of invalidating my wager I would note that everytime I fly internationally I have to fly a connecting leg as I don't live near an international port. If I fly internationally on the day my BPs for the domestic and international legs are issued at my local or first check-in. My documents are checked. My baggage is also checked through. It's clear the airline thinks my journey starts at that point even if I am wearing thongs.
I'd also note that I understand it's a really frustrating situation for the op and it's something we all have some understanding of as it's unfortunately all too common. Someone smarter than me has suggested that a complaint is a gift for a business.

 

[Austman]

No fine, only the cost of getting you back home to BNE in the event your ESTA hadn't cleared and you were left 'stranded' in SYD.

What cost?

Why couldn't Virgin say in SYD, "sorry we can't give you a BP for SYD-LAX due to no ESTA"?

The pax might then have to make their own arrangements (eg home)?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What cost?

Why couldn't Virgin say in SYD, "sorry we can't give you a BP for SYD-LAX due to no ESTA"?

The pax might then have to make their own arrangements (eg home)?

Because they could equally do that at the point of origin (which they did) and that saves the passenger any additional expense. if they accept you and carry you to Sydney, in the absence of a waiver or indemnity, the passenger could equally argue that they are now stranded - solely because the airline agreed to (in)correctly carry them in the first place.

 

[JohnK]

Because they could equally do that at the point of origin (which they did) and that saves the passenger any additional expense.

LOL. What expense did Virgin save me yesterday?

 

[Moindardt]

Wow. I thought this was about the person who has DVT missing the flight that would have re-qualified him (sorry to whoever that was).

Correct me if I am wrong (and yes I read all 28 pages and betting on 50 as well), what is the difference between not being allowed to check in because of no ESTA and arriving late? I have heard of many people arriving late but being fine if hand-luggage only (myself included on QF). Isn't this a customer service question and whether or not there was something more that VA could have done?

I am not saying there is or what rules that would have been applied, but there appears to be a lot of anecdotal evidence that this is not a legal issue, otherwise QF wouldn't be able to do it. I find it hard to believe it is a system thing that stops a boarding pass only being issued for the domestic leg (had many flights were I had to check in/pick up boarding pass at connections). If it is not legal and not system, then what else could it be other than a customer service issue?

A couple of posts referred to the price he paid. How is that relevant to the service he received. If they didn't intend to honour the ticket, they should have cancelled them straight away.

A few more comment on bending the rules and special exemptions. Isn't that what this forum is all about? Being more knowledgeable travellers so we can take advantage of things, to bend the rules to our end? Being able to handle it when things go wrong? One of the main points people gave for "why to have status", including myself, is to have a little more help when something goes wrong.

I think JohnK could have handled it a little better in how he phrased it in that he didn't explicitly use the word "partly" until a lot later in the conversation despite inferring it many times. Essentially, any reputable retail organisation is a product delivery AND a service delivery. In airlines, the difference between a Premium Carrier and LCC is both the product AND the service. Unfortunately VA appears to be a hybrid with a better product and an inferior service (but appear to generally treat premium pax well, just not in this case). Yes, he should have done his esta but it was far from the end of the world. Surely there was something more they could have done. If they actually tried and there was a real reason, not a problem, however, on the facts we have, that does not appear to be the case.

I am with Coriander and believe everything happens for a reason. Yours many have been a sacrifice to remind all of us not to make the same mistake and will enter into Urban Mythology as "the guy who forgot his ESTA". At least we can all say we knew you in some context

Now, I have to see if I can renew our ESTA's early.