The COVID-19 vaccine rollout in Australia has begun

[Pushka]

It also does not mean ATAGI are recommending or advising AZ for under 60s, they are clear the recommended vaccine is Pfizer.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is advised.

The Government doesn't don't stop idiots from buying cigarettes but that doesnt mean they recommend anyone smoke.

ATAGI may not even recommend the pill for all we know but women want it! Same with HRT.

 

[Lynda2475]

At no point did they recommend against, only quoting the ATAGI advice.

At no point did they recommend it either. They only stated the process.

 

[justinbrett]

At no point did they recommend it either. They only stated the process.

Kerry Chant did say for some the benefits will outweigh the risk

 

[Lynda2475]

ATAGI may not even recommend the pill for all we know but women want it! Same with HRT.

I dont see the relevance of this at all. The decisions to use HRT or take the Pill are entirely personal, you have a choice of many brands/types1 and can only be done via a GP consult.

Post automatically merged: Jun 30, 2021

Pretty sure it was may not will. That is still not a glowing recommendation as some would have us think.

 

[Pushka]

I dont see the relevance of this at all. The decisions to use HRT or take the Pill are entirely personal, you have a choice of many brands/types1 and can only be done via a GP consult.

Just like the Covid. My point being that what people want might be “against” advice but they do it anyway because they see the need for it.

 

[Lynda2475]

My point being that what people want might be “against” advice but they do it anyway because they see the need for it.

But that doesnt make them better than the people who follow the advice and get the recommended vaccine.

So much hate on here for people who are choosing Pfizer (i do think part of that is jealousy for those who cant get it), accusing them of stopping the borders from opening etc. That anger should be directed at the Feds who put far too many eggs in the AZ basket.

 

[justinbrett]

Without being too blunt, let's say 15 million get AZ

TTS is 3:100,000 = 450 cases
Death rate is 3% = 14 cases (and death rate is decreasing as we learn more about it)

One single day of a major covid outbreak like Melbourne last year will have far more deaths

The ATAGI advice is all relative to the risk of covid - which has definitely increased exponentially in the last two weeks.

 

[tomlee1986]

I am under 40 and I think I will wait for my Pfizer dose, as I think I am at lower risk, because I always try to limit contact with others, and try to follow advice where possible

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

There are now two tiers of ‘recommended’ vaccine for under 60:

General recommendation (eg you don’t have a GP) - Pfizer

Specific GP recommendation (provided you had ‘lengthy’ chat with your GP) - Astra Zeneca

I do note NSW CHO indicating Astra Zeneca will be available for over 60, and second doses at mass vaccination clinics because they don’t have the capability for the ‘lengthy’ GP chat. From this I surmise if any new GP takes a full medical history then they are in a position to give a specific recommendation.

 

[jakeseven7]

But that doesnt make them better than the people who follow the advice and get the recommended vaccine.

So much hate on here for people who are choosing Pfizer (i do think part of that is jealousy for those who cant get it), accusing them of stopping the borders from opening etc. That anger should be directed at the Feds who put far too many eggs in the AZ basket.

Why would anyone be jealous? Both are excellent vaccines. And now millions have a choice to get vaccinated faster if they want. It’s win-win.

I really don’t understand what you have against this decision to drive broader access, it provides people with more options... whatever you personally decide to do and what to believe is up to you, it’s your decision.

 

[Lynda2475]

One single day of a major covid outbreak like Melbourne last year will have far more deaths

But will it? That math's doesn't work. We haven't seen anywhere 3% death rate in under 50s from Covid in Australia?

There have only 5 deaths in under 50s (all men, all in Victoria with comorbidities) in total, that is 0.5%. Im trying to check but i think only 2/5 were locally acquired.

Average age of those who died was 85 (70+% of all covid deaths' had comorbidities), that skews the death rate, but 99.9% of the deaths were in age group who are getting AZ anyway.

So moot point, as the people under 50 aren't likely to die even on a day where there are 800+ cases. The majority of cases in under 50s don't end up seriously ill.

 

[tomlee1986]

There are now two tiers of ‘recommended’ vaccine for under 60:

General recommendation (eg you don’t have a GP) - Pfizer

Specific GP recommendation (provided you had ‘lengthy’ chat with your GP) - Astra Zeneca

I do note NSW CHO indicating Astra Zeneca will be available for over 60, and second doses at mass vaccination clinics because they don’t have the capability for the ‘lengthy’ GP chat. From this I surmise if any new GP takes a full medical history then they are in a position to give a specific recommendation.

I believe such information could lead to serious confusion on whether to take AZ if you are under 60. This is likely to lead to vaccine hesitancy overall

 

[Chalkie]

Again you are arguing something that was not said, i never said drugs and vaccines were not tested and approved before being made available to Joe Public. But Joe Public will still feel like a guinea pig if amongst the first members of the general public to be asked to take something new, and the issues with AZ have made people more hesitant about being the first.

Being able to reference that UK or US (or another country with similar health facilities to Australia) have been using a new vaccine widely and successfully for a decent period of time before us will give more confidence and assurance to people. I dont know why you cant understand that?

I'm not arguing anything. I am explaining the process and the facts about pharma regulation and how pharma products come to market to address the misinformation that has been promulgated. No Joe Public has any basis to feel like the first members of the general public to take something new. Phase III clinical trial subjects are proxies for "the general public". The "guinea pig" suggestion is without foundation against the background of how it all actually works.

There is no rational basis to refrain from taking any pharmaceutical basis that is approved by the TGA (unless there is a specific medical contraindication). I understand perfectly well the irrational human desire to engage in groupthink and group behaviour. But in the case of the Covid vaccines, it is not necessary. The TGA approved the AZ vaccine in accordance with its usual processes, it remains approved, it remains safe and effective, and the rest is fear mongering, insufficient explanation, the absence of relevant comparators, taking into account irrelevant considerations, political posturing and political choices that have nothing to do with the science and regulatory processes (of which ATAGI is NOT part of) that led to the approval of the AZ vaccine by the TGA.

 

[Pushka]

So much hate on here for people who are choosing Pfizer (i do think part of that is jealousy for those who cant get it),

Ah nup. I save distaste for those who are offered a vaccination and don’t take that up then expect everyone to be restricted in assuming a somewhat normal life because take up is slow. At the moment until Pfizer picks up, I’m venting that towards 60+ at the moment.

I do congratulate those who’ve at least explored the possibility of having AZ with their GP even if medically they can’t proceed.

 

[jakeseven7]

The TGA approved the AZ vaccine in accordance with its usual processes, it remains approved, it remains safe and effective, and the rest is fear mongering, insufficient explanation, the absence of relevant comparators, taking into account irrelevant considerations, political posturing and political choices that have nothing to do with the science and regulatory processes (of which ATAGI is NOT part of) that led to the approval of the AZ vaccine by the TGA.

This x 1,000,000. Thank you for the sanity

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Without being too blunt, let's say 15 million get AZ

TTS is 3:100,000 = 450 cases
Death rate is 3% = 14 cases (and death rate is decreasing as we learn more about it)

One single day of a major covid outbreak like Melbourne last year will have far more deaths

The ATAGI advice is all relative to the risk of covid - which has definitely increased exponentially in the last two weeks.

Also how many are predicted to die in this wave (which is currently 150-200) based on the death rate of last year’s winter wave?

Also note treatment of covid improving too.

 

[justinbrett]

But will it? That math's doesn't work. We haven't seen anywhere 3% death rate in under 50s from Covid in Australia? There have only 4 deaths in under 50s (all men, all in Victoria with comorbidities) in total.

Average age of those who died was 85 (70+% of all covid deaths' had comorbidities), that skews the death rate, but 99.9% of the deaths were in age group who are getting AZ anyway.

So moot point, as the people under 50 aren't likely to die even on a day where there are 800+ cases. The majority of cases in under 50s dont end up seriously ill.

3% is the current estimated TTS death rate, not covid

I think you are comparing risk for the individual - I'm talking about the collective risk as a nation.

I have nothing against people wanting Pfizer, but I do have something against people over-egging the risk of AZ (you're more likely to have a car accident on the way to the jab). The SA Premier was bang on when he said it's an individual decision. No opinion was given.

Just leave it up to the individuals and their GPs, everyone else including politicians should keep their mouths shut.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I started watching...wished I hadn't, CHO is unhinged.

What’s new - she has been unhinged all the way through.

 

[Lynda2475]

Also how many are predicted to die in this wave (which is currently 150-200) based on the death rate of last year’s winter wave?

My guess is max of 1. There were zero deaths from Northern Beaches, 1 from Crossroads (which was 6 months later and over 60).

 

[jakeseven7]

Ah nup. I save distaste for those who are offered a vaccination and don’t take that up then expect everyone to be restricted in assuming a somewhat normal life because take up is slow. At the moment until Pfizer picks up, I’m venting that towards 60+ at the moment.

I do congratulate those who’ve at least explored the possibility of having AZ with their GP even if medically they can’t proceed.

Which is exactly what people now have the option to do which is news that should be celebrated...

Have a calm discussion with a medical professional as to the appropriateness and then understand the risk (beyond tiny for a vast majority) of complications and then make your own decision with a product that is approved and indicated for use.

It’s really that simple....