The COVID-19 vaccine rollout in Australia has begun

[Quickstatus]

free-market consumer choice)

Of course, each to their own. It is a little different though than just a “coffee shop” preference/choice. Unfortunately there seems to be an undercurrent of tribalism - vaxxed vs unvaxxed, some viewed as “them” or “others” or “less”. And naturally what follows is a desire to control “them” but what also follows is also a slippery slope…

Even Godwin himself would have been impressed with how quickly that came up

There are similarities that can’t be ignored. Germans were normal people and within a few years the regular German became eager informants on their fellow citizens, and turned a blind eye to the subsequent atrocities.

Though to be clear, we are a long long way from that.

If the Government wishes to make vaccination compulsory

The Fed Govt has no plans to make Vax compulsory.
Here is an Opinion worth reading.

 

[Quickstatus]

cigarette smoking is banned on flights these days

Yes but smokers are allowed on flights. There is no way of knowing whether a passenger is a smoker or not. There is no requirement on smokers to declare a smoking habit.

Unvaxxed people are effectively asked to advertise it. Anyone so advertising is not allowed to participate.

 

[N860CR]

Yes but smokers are allowed on flights. There is no way of knowing whether a passenger is a smoker or not. There is no requirement on smokers to declare a smoking habit.

Unvaxxed people are effectively asked to advertise it. Anyone so advertising is not allowed to participate.

It is starting to become a concern, especially when we’re talking about vaccination rates of over 95%. The risk an unvaccinated person presents is probably no worse than an ordinary driver on the roads.

If the government has elected not to mandate vaccination, there’s no place for private industry to do it. It heads quickly down the gay wedding cake in the bakery path. The irony is that those who advocate for banning the unvaxxed would be the first to hit the roof in the bakery example. Amazing how this virus has totally blurred so many peoples views.

 

[Quickstatus]

Amazing how this virus has totally blurred so many peoples views.

And forget about history
Remember 150 years ago, compulsory smallpox vaccinations were mandated in the UK via the vaccination Act. Even then there were anti vaxers. Eventually the UK allowed conscientious objection even when smallpox mortality was measured in the millions.

A bit of History

Vaccination success IIRC have never relied on compulsory mandates but rather by the efficacy of the vaccines - the vaccines stood on its results, and a widespread campaign promoting its efficacy. More recently, transparency re side effects are also an important component of the discussion,

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Yes but smokers are allowed on flights. There is no way of knowing whether a passenger is a smoker or not. There is no requirement on smokers to declare a smoking habit.

You don't need to know. You just need to know that they do not smoke on the flight, or in the restaurant etc.

The smoker is not banned, the act of smoking is in specific settings.


As per my earlier post, eventually the vaccination rate will rise high enough, but it is not there yet.

 

[Quickstatus]

You don't need to know

Correct. The analogy between smokers and unvaxxed does not universally work.

I do feel a bit uneasy that some people are being forced to advertise it.

eventually the vaccination rate will rise high enough, but it is not there yet.

What %?
I’ve heard that some places in US are saying that anyone with 2Jab more than 6 months are being considered as unvaxxed…

 

[nutwood]

The Fed Govt has no plans to make Vax compulsory.
Here is an Opinion worth reading.

Thanks for that. Interesting read and one that I totally agree with. Public education does work, and works well. Imagine if they said there's only a limited number of vaccines and they're only available to those with an annual income over $250k.
Then allow a black market to develop, selling a vaccination for $20....

 

[Pushka]

Anecdotal of course but I'm hearing so many stories now of people in SA only being vaccinated because they have to.

 

[jakeseven7]

Anecdotal of course but I'm hearing so many stories now of people in SA only being vaccinated because they have to.

Jab is a jab

 

[nutwood]

Anecdotal of course but I'm hearing so many stories now of people in SA only being vaccinated because they have to.

I'm watching with interest, one of our clients in SA. They have an employee who's been with them over ten years, ever since leaving school, who won't have a job in a few weeks time if they continue to refuse vaccination. Problem is, there's no winners in this situation. It's distressing for everyone involved, however it turns out.

 

[dairyfloss]

I'm watching with interest, one of our clients in SA. They have an employee who's been with them over ten years, ever since leaving school, who won't have a job in a few weeks time if they continue to refuse vaccination. Problem is, there's no winners in this situation. It's distressing for everyone involved, however it turns out.

Oh boy - if only there was something quick, free and easy they could do to protect their job, together with the health and safety of themselves and others around them. Sorry, but one of my favourites just has to be said, here. 'Play stupid games; win stupid prizes.'

 

[justinbrett]

I have been very pro vax (and obviously double vaxxed myself) but I'm now becoming quite concerned by the bluntness and universality of the vaccine mandates, even as we exceed 90% coverage. I don't mind so much if individual businesses want to have their own mandate, but not when it comes from the government.

Today it's covid vaccines - tomorrow it's something you may not be so keen on.

So many freedoms have been taken from us during the last two years, I now fear that they won't be returned.

 

[Pushka]

I'm watching with interest, one of our clients in SA. They have an employee who's been with them over ten years, ever since leaving school, who won't have a job in a few weeks time if they continue to refuse vaccination. Problem is, there's no winners in this situation. It's distressing for everyone involved, however it turns out.

There's no winners there but there could be so many unfortunate issues as a result. Our clients are all demanding our consultants be vaccinated. And have to provide certificates as we go onsite.

 

[Quickstatus]

Jab is a jab

Especially if attached to free burgers

 

[jakeseven7]

Especially if attached to free burgers

Which hopefully be attractive for the type of people left still not vaccinated

 

[Tiki]

At the very least, vaccinated people should be exempt from PCR tests at 80%. Not only are they expensive in Australia, insisting on them (looking at you Anna) shows lack of confidence in the vaccine.

I am also pro-vax and double vaxxed and in normal circumstances could care less what other people do. If they want to take the risk, that's on them. What has been worrying me is the contact tracing and close contact thing. Why is that even continuing for vaxxed people? So what if they spread it? Everyone who wants a vax has had one. Maybe these other ones will learn the hard way they should have gotten the vax.

Anna is (not sure what the term is here) effectively blocking travel with these PCR tests while pretending to open up knowing full well people can't afford them so will not travel. But she can still say she opened the borders.

 

[jakeseven7]

At the very least, vaccinated people should be exempt from PCR tests at 80%. Not only are they expensive in Australia, insisting on them (looking at you Anna) shows lack of confidence in the vaccine.

I am also pro-vax and double vaxxed and in normal circumstances could care less what other people do. If they want to take the risk, that's on them. What has been worrying me is the contact tracing and close contact thing. Why is that even continuing for vaxxed people? So what if they spread it? Everyone who wants a vax has had one. Maybe these other ones will learn the hard way they should have gotten the vax.

Anna is (not sure what the term is here) effectivel blocking travel with these PCR tests while pretending to open up knowing full well people can't afford them so will not travel. But she can still say she opened the borders.

100% agree the testing is just a waste of time, resources and is political.

 

[N860CR]

I have been very pro vax (and obviously double vaxxed myself) but I'm now becoming quite concerned by the bluntness and universality of the vaccine mandates, even as we exceed 90% coverage. I don't mind so much if individual businesses want to have their own mandate, but not when it comes from the government.

Today it's covid vaccines - tomorrow it's something you may not be so keen on.

So many freedoms have been taken from us during the last two years, I now fear that they won't be returned.

Yep. And as much as some people hate to hear it, this is not Ebola. Even without a vaccine, it’s a very mild virus. The antivaxers tend to be younger (ie under 50) so rolling the dice with the virus is really not a big risk to themselves, let alone the community at large.

This is fast becoming a way for government and private industry to marginalise specific people for god knows what gain. As you say, what’s next? History has plenty of examples.

NSW is now amongst the highest vaccinated places on earth with the benefit of extreamly low daily positive test results from a very high number of PCR tests (certainly amongst the highest in the world per capita).

It’s time to accept that covid is over and we need to move on. There is nothing more we can do, and there is no longer any justification for these extreme social controls.

For the record, triple-vaxed and pro-vax

 

[lakeman]

Yep. And as much as some people hate to hear it, this is not Ebola. Even without a vaccine, it’s a very mild virus.

Mild virus with 25% mortality in unvaccinated nursing home population.
Figures from UK in this article Covid and flu: what do the numbers tell us about morbidity and deaths?
Suggest ?200 times the death rate from flu.( I agree hard to compare prevaccination figures )

I don’t agree that we should just move on.
Overwhelming the health system with vaccine preventable illness as has happened overseas and is likely to happen again there only causes knock on effects with our usual goals of early treatment of other diseases and illnesses.
All the younger vaccine hesitant don’t understand the consequences.
I don’t know your age group but already there are difficulties getting timely investigation for suspected breast cancer.

 

[N860CR]

Mild virus with 25% mortality in unvaccinated nursing home population.
Figures from UK in this article Covid and flu: what do the numbers tell us about morbidity and deaths?
Suggest ?200 times the death rate from flu.( I agree hard to compare prevaccination figures )

I don’t agree that we should just move on.
Overwhelming the health system with vaccine preventable illness as has happened overseas and is likely to happen again there only causes knock on effects with our usual goals of early treatment of other diseases and illnesses.
All the younger vaccine hesitant don’t understand the consequences.
I don’t know your age group but already there are difficulties getting timely investigation for suspected breast cancer.

1/3 of nursing home residents die each year. Sadly, they’re not Club Med, it’s end of life care.

Again, the point I’m making is that the antivaxers tend to be younger and one cannot ignore the fact that this virus does not have much of an impact on under 50s. That’s largely why NSW managed to open up at 70% without any dramas. The 50+ age groups were at far greater than 70%.

We’re looking at 95% of 12+ fully vaccinated. Again, the risk the very few unvaccinated present to the greater community is negligible, at best, and certainly does not justify these continued breaches to civil liberties.