The totally off-topic thread

[anat0l]

Exactly why Im no longer required :-| My area of expertise is molecular ecology...governments arent too keen on funding conservation projects.

Yeah well, mine was sustainability in mining and engineering. Mining industry is in the toilet and among the first people to be fired when the job crunch came down was anyone to do with environment.

The specialists get to keep their jobs, usually technical specialists, though. Which is fair enough, as the world relies on few specialists, with the only issue being when those specialists-come-gurus are close to retirement or passing on.

 

[TomVexille]

Just thought I would say Hi

We have been on a 2 week cruise and the Internet charges were a bit over the top. I decided to have a break and so far have spent the afternoon just reading the posts in this thread from the 19th Jan. Plenty of reading still to come

Welcome back

 

[Pushka]

I do that too when we go cruising. No AFF - I go cold turkey, but someone I know cant.

Cruise ship wifi is awful. Older Dame (love_the_life) is currently going cold turkey on an Asian cruise. I like it when we are close enough to the coast to grab a local signal.

 

[RooFlyer]

Off Grid - battery storage on ABC 'Catalyst' now (SE Coast) ... finding it fascinating ...

That was a great programme. Thanks for tip off.
If anyone missed it then it's well worth catching up on iview.

So they are going to let us keep mining (or brining ) for a while yet? My '80s bumper sticker "Ban mining ... let the coughs freeze in the dark." is an oldie but a goodie.

 

[RooFlyer]

Yeah well, mine was sustainability in mining and engineering. Mining industry is in the toilet and among the first people to be fired when the job crunch came down was anyone to do with environment.

<snip>

That's odd. If a mine goes on half time, or care and maintenance, or shuts down the mine still has environmental monitoring, obligations and reporting to government, even in the third world. I was on a sweet little mine in the NT in the '80s and when it was mined out, the environmental guys where were LAST to be put off (and even then, in favour of environmental contractors) - again, because of the on-going requirement to monitor the site, rehabilitate it and report to government. He used to say that the fishing in the (water filled) open-cut was magnificent later on!

In the '90s I managed (on contract) the re-opening of a mine in Tas that had been on care and maintenance for about 3 years. Guess who was the sole person we found on site? Had immaculate records of water quality, feral animals, native animals, weed colonisation, you name it.

In a downturn, ask a taxi driver in Perth what they used to do - odds on he or she will be an ex-geo.

 

[anat0l]

That's odd. If a mine goes on half time, or care and maintenance, or shuts down the mine still has environmental monitoring, obligations and reporting to government, even in the third world. I was on a sweet little mine in the NT in the '80s and when it was mined out, the environmental guys where were LAST to be put off (and even then, in favour of environmental contractors) - again, because of the on-going requirement to monitor the site, rehabilitate it and report to government. He used to say that the fishing in the (water filled) open-cut was magnificent later on!

In the '90s I managed (on contract) the re-opening of a mine in Tas that had been on care and maintenance for about 3 years. Guess who was the sole person we found on site? Had immaculate records of water quality, feral animals, native animals, weed colonisation, you name it.

In a downturn, ask a taxi driver in Perth what they used to do - odds on he or she will be an ex-geo.

I realise you are an expert in mining so your insights are interesting.

With mines, certainly they have environmental obligations, though it doesn't take a large team to manage the monitoring etc. required to discharge their obligations. Moreover, if an operation is put on cold storage, there are less impacts and accountability required; even less if they are in the middle of no where with little obligations to community.

Many of the environmental engineers who were brought into the fold were usually involved in either new projects or potential ones, plus you still needed at least a HSE or a couple or so per operation, even the marginal ones. When operations start to shut down for whatever reason (except perhaps for closure), you start to assign responsibilities to more than one operation per officer, especially the marginal ones. With no capital projects, the engineers required for investigations drops off. Other industries - like CSG - have similarly packed it in and the environmental engineers are off the books. Contracting where required is a less risky move and often a lot cheaper than having it in-house.

This is broadly what I have heard has happened. Basically not a happy time for environmental engineers. On top of that, dealing with environmental issues - especially at the concept/feas./pre-feas. stages should be more than just simply discharging obligations and avoiding a mess, it should be about trying to create value. If HSE is glorified clipboard checking, then it comes to no wonder why they are the first to be struck off.

Interestingly, there are quite a few jobs for environmental staff to work at city councils. They are pretty demanding of the kind of people they want.

When the industry returns to investing heavily in capital projects or expansions, the number of in house environmental engineers will pick up significantly. Of course, the model could change, but that means there will be an uptake of engineers in the big consulting companies or even smaller pockets of environmental consulting firms.

I thought geos - or geochemists or geophysicists - would actually do pretty decent throughout most downturns. Exploration, testing sites and assaying for mine and block planning, planning or costing open cut versus underground mining... these would be persistent technical tasks even in downturns (mining companies trying to separate or realise which are their marginal grade operations and which are their better ones, plus better stockpile planning for processing purposes and improving recovery). So surprising to hear that geos are in trouble, too.

I hopped into an Uber the other day in Brisbane. Driver used to work for an oil and gas company as a process engineer. When the company started going cold, he broke out and set up his own consulting business specialising in corrosion and fouling advisory. The business was young when I met him, hence his driving the Uber for a few extra dollars.

 

[marki]

Bit of a cross post, but Hitler’s take on NTTP v NTTH. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTHA4G-Hsy4

What a laugh ..... Thanks for posting ROT

 

[JohnK]

All is well - number 2 didn't have the easiest entry into the world, but now we are talking of discharge so he is on the mend.

Great news. Hope all is well.

 

[RooFlyer]

I realise you are an expert in mining so your insights are interesting.

<snip for space>.

Yep, in 35 years working in mining & exploration in the USA, Canada, Africa, the Middle East and Oz (and just a brush with oil & gas), I've seen about 3 full cycles of boom/bust.# Never driven a taxi though; started my own business 15 years ago and when things slow down, I revert to writing books.

# I missed out on the '70s nickel boom though - that would have been fun.

With mines, certainly they have environmental obligations, though it doesn't take a large team to manage the monitoring etc. required to discharge their obligations. Moreover, if an operation is put on cold storage, there are less impacts and accountability required; even less if they are in the middle of no where with little obligations to community.

The location of the mine is irrelevant; environmental obligations are statutory and on-going, regardless. Whether or not the mine is producing, or on care-and-maintenance, the monitoring and reporting is pretty much the same. Gotta show that the mine isn't affecting the environment beyond what the permits say. In a mine complete closure, the environmental dept goes berserk - all that rehab to do, and monitor, and report on in addition to the on-going monitoring and reporting on the mine waste dumps etc. There's usually a hefty environmental bond held by the govt agencies which is only released when the agency is satisfied, so there's an added incentive to do it all well.

Let me tell you, the last 5 years of a mine cash flow model has just one line item - 'Environment' :mrgreen:

But you are talking about environmental engineers - not sure I've ever worked with one of those. Ones I know and have worked with have all been of the 'bug counting' variety. I suspect the environmental engineers would cost a lot more than the bug counters, so yes, may be put off early on.

Actually I am the honorary bug-counter for the project in Canada I've been working on for the past 5 years . Canadians have a surprisingly laissez-faire attitude to the environment. I, on behalf of the Australian board, had to go in and organise baseline environmental studies (AKA bug counting), fish monitoring (guess how!), dust plume and sound dispersal studies, groundwater monitoring, you name it. I know which side my bread is buttered!

I thought geos - or geochemists or geophysicists - would actually do pretty decent throughout most downturns. Exploration, testing sites and assaying for mine and block planning, planning or costing open cut versus underground mining... these would be persistent technical tasks even in downturns (mining companies trying to separate or realise which are their marginal grade operations and which are their better ones, plus better stockpile planning for processing purposes and improving recovery). So surprising to hear that geos are in trouble, too.

Geos/geochems/geophys/fieldies are the first to get it in the neck for 2 reasons. Greenfields exploration is definitely the first activity to get chopped - large $$ outlays, for no short (or even medium) term return. Its a short sighted policy, but ya gotta cut somewhere that's going conserve money with minimum affect on production. Pure exploration companies go into hibernation or discover technology. In mines, there is usually ore defined for a few years. Lay off a geo or two and work the others harder! And those grade control issues you mention - yes, important, but just a few changes to the inputs into the algorithm and a new mine plan can be produced in less than a day.

I guess these days the geos don't drive taxis but rather become web designers. Banking is also a popular diversion. I went investment banking for 10 years, but not in a down turn - some-one's got to tell the bankers how to value that deep, black hole in the ground. But 10 years was all I could take. Not a nice 'environment'.

Oops ... sorry about the long post. My favourite subject, can't you tell!

 

[JohnM]

My '80s bumper sticker "Ban mining ... let the coughs freeze in the dark." is an oldie but a goodie.

A good old Lang Hancock saying .

 

[Flashback]

Brother said If I went into teaching, only teach at a private school as the kids there are motivated to learn as most state schools are slowly burning.

Wow, just wow. Not the case at all.

I thought geos - or geochemists or geophysicists - would actually do pretty decent throughout most downturns. Exploration, testing sites and assaying for mine and block planning, planning or costing open cut versus underground mining... these would be persistent technical tasks even in downturns (mining companies trying to separate or realise which are their marginal grade operations and which are their better ones, plus better stockpile planning for processing purposes and improving recovery). So surprising to hear that geos are in trouble, too.

As RooFlyer said, Geologists tend to be the first to go - exploration projects are usually the first to be chopped, then after that any upcoming expansion projects. While I'm still relatively young, I've been in the mining industry for long enough to see this happen and the effect it has. Luckily being London based now I've diversified my skill set into Financial, Investment, Public and Retail sector industries.

 

[JohnM]

In all this discussion (or should that be 'conversation' ) about PhD's, people need to realise that, these days, it is not about the student, but all about the supervisor's reputation and continued survival. Post-grad students, the $$ they bring in and published papers are what counts for an academic, so they take students on primarily for survival and prestige reasons - then, more often than not, cast them adrift once the PhD is done.

Those that survive a few Post-docs may eventually get a tenured position; many, maybe most these days, don't. Grant-sucking ability, more than academic ability, probably determines survival .

Those that try their chances in the 'general' market, such as teaching, often get the response that Blackcat20 enunciated - without the interviewer understanding that a PhD is no great job ticket these days. Others, who apply to consultancies, contractors or such-like are usually regarded as too specialised and are considered unable, or not sufficiently 'with it' in a practical sense, to take on the generalised requirements of such organisations. (Let alone the overtone, through their 'desperate' job application, that they are a 'failure' because their quest to be a researcher/academic has been in vain.)

Overseas students (many these days as Australia sells so much education) are often abandoned once their PhD is done (dare I say often with help or concessional treatment) and they have gone back to their country of origin. As an honorary journal editor a few years back I had a person who had done a PhD in Australia, gone back to the home country and was trying to publish work from the PhD. His submission was a mess. After several worsening iterations, me saying that he needed to get his supervisor involved in helping to improve the manuscript invoked the plaintive reply: "He won't answer my emails." I felt desperately sorry for this person, who had clearly been used as a commodity, but I simply could not accept his shambolic manuscript and it was not my, or some referees', role to fix it. There it ended in rejection. Pretty clearly the supervisor saw less value in putting effort into the paper of which he was a co-author than taking on another fee-paying overseas cannon-fodder PhD student. That incident sickened me.

 

[RAM]

On teaching - was dismayed to be told be ex-senior English teacher at a 'well known' Syd eastern suburbs catholic girls high school that since the late 90s the teachers were required (on threat of job loss/loss of insurance-workcover) to always be in pairs when moving around the school.

WHY? Too many teachers were being beaten up!

I checked this out as I could not believe it - unfortunately it was true.

With some parents of 'troublesome' children they figure the private schools may be better at 'educating' their problem child. I have been told BUT not seen the evidence that some families of 'challenging' children have had all/most of the private school fees paid for by various State Govt depts. As a child support/welfare/close the gap measure.

Our local public primary school had a hard core of committed teachers who were 'transferred' or had their hours cut down to 1 day a week but an acknowledged mentally unbalanced principal who was appointed to the school in breach of DoE procedures by the Ed minister's office.

In the last 5 years, the teachers' cars are racing the kids out of the school and just 3 committed teachers remain. Within 10 minutes of school finishing between 13-17 cars have gone.

The ability of most teachers there now (under 40+ age) to spell correctly let alone have any grammatical skills (a comma anyone?) is very poor.

Time servers vs Keen learners

At a large private boys high school they have 3 'graded' classes and 6-7 mixed classes per core subject. Entry to the graded classes is not as you may think but could be aligned to how much the family pays into the 'property fund'. Disruptive boys are spread evenly over the other 6-7 classes to 'dilute' their impact and show them what keen learners are doing.

When pushed over impact on entire class - response: it's good for the boys to get experience in dealing/coping with disruptive class mates as that's what real life is all about.

So my reply - Why have 3 graded classes then and even those are not selected on either ability or results? SILENCE.

BTW - axe to grind - Son topped year in one subject and top 10 in another. Yes you guessed it he is not in ANY graded classes and due to issue with school admin block deemed more value to 'the educational outcomes' than improved classrooms (from the 50s) - we stopped 'donating' to the property fund.

Bureaucrats and politicians do rule the roost in most if not all industries unfortunately.

 

[RAM]

[h=3] Why You’re Still Paying Fuel Surcharges After the Oil Crash [/h] The days of $100 per barrel oil are long gone, but only cruise lines have abolished fuel surcharges as energy costs have plummeted. Airlines, trucking companies and railroads continue to stick customers with zombie fuel fees. Why? Well, because they can.



Time for a new AFF campaign perhaps?

How can any airline etc argue that the fuel surcharges that were introduced when oil prices were at USD40 or USD50 (and higher) can still be charged?

Definitely false, misleading and deceptive surely?

 

[whatmeworry]

The ability of most teachers there now (under 40+ age) to spell correctly let alone have any grammatical skills (a comma anyone?) is very poor.

So is it under 40 or 40+?

 

[medhead]

Yes, environmental obligations are a constant. But when times are tough they will do the environmental stuff with 3 people instead of 4. Those cuts are the first to be made. By contrast the sparkie who knows how to run the $1 million pump that is critical to production is much harder to axe.

 

[medhead]

With some parents of 'troublesome' children they figure the private schools may be better at 'educating' their problem child. I have been told BUT not seen the evidence that some families of 'challenging' children have had all/most of the private school fees paid for by various State Govt depts. As a child support/welfare/close the gap measure.

Have pretty much seen this at our school. Also have seen that challenging children get things like the weekly class award on a regular basis because they only bit 1 child this week instead of the usual 10. (or something stupid like that)

Have also seen that child full on kick one of my children in the chest and then look at me. So they know exactly that their actions are wrong. I wish I'd yelled at them, but also glad I didn't.

 

[blackcat20]

In all this discussion (or should that be 'conversation' ) about PhD's, people need to realise that, these days, it is not about the student, but all about the supervisor's reputation and continued survival. Post-grad students, the $$ they bring in and published papers are what counts for an academic, so they take students on primarily for survival and prestige reasons - then, more often than not, cast them adrift once the PhD is done.

Those that survive a few Post-docs may eventually get a tenured position; many, maybe most these days, don't. Grant-sucking ability, more than academic ability, probably determines survival .

Those that try their chances in the 'general' market, such as teaching, often get the response that Blackcat20 enunciated - without the interviewer understanding that a PhD is no great job ticket these days. Others, who apply to consultancies, contractors or such-like are usually regarded as too specialised and are considered unable, or not sufficiently 'with it' in a practical sense, to take on the generalised requirements of such organisations. (Let alone the overtone, through their 'desperate' job application, that they are a 'failure' because their quest to be a researcher/academic has been in vain.)

Overseas students (many these days as Australia sells so much education) are often abandoned once their PhD is done (dare I say often with help or concessional treatment) and they have gone back to their country of origin. As an honorary journal editor a few years back I had a person who had done a PhD in Australia, gone back to the home country and was trying to publish work from the PhD. His submission was a mess. After several worsening iterations, me saying that he needed to get his supervisor involved in helping to improve the manuscript invoked the plaintive reply: "He won't answer my emails." I felt desperately sorry for this person, who had clearly been used as a commodity, but I simply could not accept his shambolic manuscript and it was not my, or some referees', role to fix it. There it ended in rejection. Pretty clearly the supervisor saw less value in putting effort into the paper of which he was a co-author than taking on another fee-paying overseas cannon-fodder PhD student. That incident sickened me.

Unfortunately PhD students are seen as cheap labour to futher feather the nest of the Professor/Supervisor. Students do the work, supervisor gets the rewards/publications/grants. I try to sell my PhD in job applications as an advantage for the skill set it brings: the ability to work independently, time manangement etc etc.
I feel sorry for students from my first lab; the supervisor left the university, meaning they all needed a new supervisor (on paper only) in order to stay on. One who started a year or so after me still hasnt submitted due to a lack of support.
In some ways Id have been better off without the PhD; Im great in the lab, but have no desire to be a lab head, nor deal with endless grant applications, or the publish or perish mentality.

 

[anat0l]

[h=3] Why You’re Still Paying Fuel Surcharges After the Oil Crash [/h] The days of $100 per barrel oil are long gone, but only cruise lines have abolished fuel surcharges as energy costs have plummeted. Airlines, trucking companies and railroads continue to stick customers with zombie fuel fees. Why? Well, because they can.



Time for a new AFF campaign perhaps?

How can any airline etc argue that the fuel surcharges that were introduced when oil prices were at USD40 or USD50 (and higher) can still be charged?

Definitely false, misleading and deceptive surely?

Yes, because they can.

What real argument do you have for them not to do it? Because "it's not fair"? Hardly a legal-based argument. You might be able to derive some sort of similar argument as the movement which just put it to banks that their fees should reflect only the costs of business and not "profiteer".

I wouldn't mind not paying that much myself, but as it stands we hardly have a legal leg to stand on; only a moral one at best.

Many might argue that they need to take this "windfall" in order to make up for any fuel hedges or reserves that were already purchased at the higher price. That's a pretty poor excuse too, mind you, but so be it.

Many such companies who rely on fuel are public companies. They have responsibilities to shareholders to deliver profits (or so it would be). Even if it were the "right" thing to do, the ability for companies to make more profit when they cut a large chunk out of the instant revenue they've just got thanks to a lower fuel price is, of course, more difficult. So unless they're forced to one way or another (usually must be a legal way, or a huge social smear campaign), they're hardly going to lower prices, or at least in immediate line with the fuel price.

 

[whatmeworry]

Why You’re Still Paying Fuel Surcharges After the Oil Crash

The days of $100 per barrel oil are long gone, but only cruise lines have abolished fuel surcharges as energy costs have plummeted. Airlines, trucking companies and railroads continue to stick customers with zombie fuel fees. Why? Well, because they can.



Time for a new AFF campaign perhaps?

How can any airline etc argue that the fuel surcharges that were introduced when oil prices were at USD40 or USD50 (and higher) can still be charged?

Definitely false, misleading and deceptive surely?

Ok here is a petition.

https://www.change.org/p/australian...source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink