Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[justinbrett]

Yes I remember reading this not long post COVID, but still?

Who's to know.

As of Oct 22 for the NH a winter schedule Sydney had a 70% utilisation rule and VA still held all the Tiger slots at SYD.

There hasn’t been any media reporting about the latest schedule (NH summer) as we have just entered it, but I’m sure we’ll hear about it.

Also unless I’m mistaken there’s no fees in slot retention, otherwise all airlines would have given them up in 2020. Costs are incurred by landing fees and other terminal / handling charges.

 

[Harrison_133]

Sydney. It’s my understanding they still hold all of the VA1 slots.

Hoarding Tiger slots? Yes, they still hang on to those reportedly.

Virgin slots? Not sure I’d call it hoarding. Comparing data from the BITRE OTP stats: in Feb 2023 VA had 2093 departures from SYD, compared to 2239 in Feb 2020.

And let’s not forget that QF were also accused of slot squatting in SYD…

 

[justinbrett]

Hoarding Tiger slots? Yes, they still hang on to those reportedly.

Virgin slots? Not sure I’d call it hoarding. Comparing data from the BITRE OTP stats: in Feb 2023 VA had 2093 departures from SYD, compared to 2239 in Feb 2020.

And let’s not forget that QF were also accused of slot squatting in SYD…

Well Tiger aren’t hoarding the slots are they? VA is. Doesn’t really matter who they belonged to originally.

QF has been accused of it but denied it. I don’t see how they are on scale, their Sydney capacity is pretty close to pre COVID levels. I’m sure they were during covid.

 

[HS-TQE]

Maybe the only reason why NH will agree to condeshare, is that they don't fly to CNS, and they know this.
They would probably be very aware that with the other capital cities, they have competition, ie, SQ via SIN and TG via BKK.
So just maybe, but what would I know, CNS might be a niche market for VA.
"(Imagine a first timer from Japan arriving to CNS from HND with VA, asking where is Sydney/is Sydney near here...?)"

They won't be that clueless. A first time Japanese tourist visiting CNS will likely be more than aware of the 'Great Barrier Reef'.

Plus the Japanese elders and older tourists will be more than aware of Cairns' "glory" days of the 80s and 90s where there was multiple 747 loads of tourists from Japan.

 

[N860CR]

737-8Max. The airplane they are supposed to operate to HND

As far as I’m aware, they’ve had the sim for ages. No flight hour requirement on the aeroplane

 

[Quickstatus]

No flight hour requirement on the aeroplane

I dunno but didn't Boeing finally agree that it is a different aircraft compared with the 737NG types after the 2 crashes

 

[AviatorInsight]

I dunno but didn't Boeing finally agree that it is a different aircraft compared with the 737NG types after the 2 crashes

There are differences, yes. But we have all had a go at the MAX in the simulator and some online training, with ongoing exams prior to every cyclic check. Our 737 endorsement covers all 737 variants from the -300 to -900 inclusive. It still looks like a 737 and flies like a 737 with some variations in valve operation and behind the scenes with hydraulics and flight control systems that we wouldn't really notice on a day to day basis anyway.

There was actually never any mandatory training to be undertaken for the MAX however many airlines around the world (VA included) have decided it was necessary to bring in simulators and additional training before being cleared to fly the MAX. In my opinion this is a good thing!

This is similar to us now flying an ex KLM -700 on one sector, then the next sector flying a VA -800, then the sector after that operating an ex Silk Air -800, to finally on the last sector flying a VA -700.

At the end of the day, the MAX is the last 737 that can be flown as a common type. Any additions now will require a whole new type rating for crew and must include a proper EICAS (engine indicating and crew alerting system). Not the 1960s warning lights that are installed now.

 

[Bagpuss]

At the end of the day, the MAX is the last 737 that can be flown as a common type. Any additions now will require a whole new type rating for crew and must include a proper EICAS (engine indicating and crew alerting system). Not the 1960s warning lights that are installed now.

Which is part it 10 - 15 years time is that replacing a 737 MAX wont be "like for like".

I suspect this in part is why Qantas is switching to Airbus now.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Which is part it 10 - 15 years time is that replacing a 737 MAX wont be "like for like".

I suspect this in part is why Qantas is switching to Airbus now.

This was the whole issue of the MAX and in particular the -10 were a proper EICAS and overhead panel similar to what you would find on a 777 or 787. The FAA expected the MAX to have this system.

However Boeing sought to have this waived as having an EICAS system changes not only the coughpit design but also crew operating procedures. Given many airlines run a combined NG and MAX fleet, it would be a considerable cost to run them as separate entities rather than a common type.

So yes, this is it to the 737 anymore changes now after the MAX -10 and it’ll be a whole new type.

 

[Pele]

Just checked.
Not a single day in 2023 where there are 2 J reward seats on CNS-HND.
Handful of single J rewards.

I will be throwing some reward seats back into the inventory so we will see if they go back in there for someone else to snag.

 

[Digicola]

Well… for those based in Sydney who were looking for a trip to Tokyo. On many days ANA is cheaper than VA in J. With lie flats, direct flight, widebody, and hopefully by July mileage too.

 

[Pele]

That is exactly what I did.

 

[PERLHR]

Is the HND flight from CNS stated yet? I was sitting in 2A yesterday from CNS to MEL and really asked myself would i really do this type of config to HND and back. Jury still out. Hope they also up the food offering. While I don't mind the parmi chicken it ain't quite JAL standard! Also lackmof lounge. Plenty of space for a VA lounge up the stairs beside QF. Wish they would just get one open.

 

[henrus]

Is the HND flight from CNS stated yet?

Begins on 28 June so still a few months yet.

Hope they also up the food offering.

Press release indicated increased food offerings in both J and also Y (more focus on Japanese items as well).

Jury still out.

I think the flight from CNS-HND being a day time service will be fine but the return will be brutal.

 

[Quickstatus]

the return will be brutal.

2145-0615 is actually quite a good timing IMO

 

[Saab34]

This is the issue with this middle market model, if they offer a free meal, then great, but what about Fiji and Bali. It becomes a very confusing model. Do they give one free drink perhaps on this route?

Not sure how BOB would work ex Japan. Doubt they would have the room to load up a return flight. Perhaps no buy on board, but I don’t think they would offer unlimited drink for free.

I noticed a Virgin A330 parked up in Perth. Perhaps they could lease that? I mean it’s already fully kitted out inside.

 

[henrus]

This is the issue with this middle market model, if they offer a free meal, then great, but what about Fiji and Bali. It becomes a very confusing model. Do they give one free drink perhaps on this route?

No it’s 100% BOB in economy.

Post automatically merged: Apr 23, 2023

I noticed a Virgin A330 parked up in Perth. Perhaps they could lease that? I mean it’s already fully kitted out inside.

That suckers been there pre Covid, broken to the point they can’t fly it out of Perth

 

[Quickstatus]

Perhaps they could lease that?

Pilots?

 

[HS-TQE]

This is the issue with this middle market model, if they offer a free meal, then great, but what about Fiji and Bali. It becomes a very confusing model. Do they give one free drink perhaps on this route?

It's BoB per all other routes. Japanese route has a separate BoB menu in Y.

Saying that, as I've stated in the past, pre-booked meals in Y should be implemented on all VA Short Haul Int services, imo.

Not sure how BOB would work ex Japan. Doubt they would have the room to load up a return flight. Perhaps no buy on board, but I don’t think they would offer unlimited drink for free.

I'm sure they'll sorted their caterers ex-HND if they don't have the room ex-CNS.
Saying that, Batik Air loads BoB and Pre-Booked meals in Y on the exact same aircraft as VA. Batik are also a 'Value Orientated' carrier like VA.

If Batik can do it, then so can VA.

 

[HS-TQE]

That suckers been there pre Covid, broken to the point they can’t fly it out of Perth

May possibly meet the same fate as VH-VPD, but potentially parted out in PER. The Aircraft owner of the A330 in question was transferred to 'Magpie Leasing', which I'm assuming it's an umbrella company for someone else.