"TrouserGate" - Australian Cricketers Caught Ball Tampering

[Deleted member]

I pay for Foxtel but I don't bother watching the cricket these days

I (we) have for some time now, not watched any TV , including my beloved Rugby .

 

[rock86]

And that’s just the beginning

Doubt it'll be too much more, they may lose their leadership roles, but I'm not convinced especially with recent tampering incidents from other countries.

I think they should lose their C & VC role, as they should have never got Bancroft a junior player to do the deed, as Clarke said don't get someone else to do something if you're not prepared to do it yourself.

But this is certainly now going over the top with people calling for life bans, that is quite laughable.

 

[JohnK]

Interesting that Smith said Lehman wasn’t involved at all but he looked decidedly uncomfortable when the camera panned across the box on the news.

Senior leadership group without Lehman involved? Could well be the case but he would have been aware.

Looks like this is being treated more seriously than previous incidents. I don't understand why that would be the case. Ban them for a few games and move on.

 

[rock86]

Senior leadership group without Lehman involved? Could well be the case but he would have been aware.

Looks like this is being treated more seriously than previous incidents. I don't understand why that would be the case. Ban them for a few games and move on.

Agreed.

And for the ASC to come out and urge CA to stand players down, get a grip you have no place in this. There is also precedent for this in world cricket and guess what, they're fines issued by the ICC. Any further actions would need to be taken very seriously as you'd think CA could be opening themselves up for possible litigation from your employee based on past precedence.

 

[sjk]

'Awareness' isn't really an issue here. The team culture under Lehmann is obviously poor.

I didn't like the way the players came across during their negotiations with CA last year, and I think it's reasonable to expect many of them to pay a price now. I'll be disappointed if Smith and Warner play the next match.

The idea of CA exposing themselves to litigation risk is laughable.

 

[sjk]

I'll be disappointed if Smith and Warner play the next match.

Well, subject to appeals, it looks like I don't have to worry about Smith now.

 

[rock86]

The idea of CA exposing themselves to litigation risk is laughable.

How so? Considering in other circumstances that their respective boards have considered an ICC punishment sufficient, if CA decided to go the ridiculous route some are proposing and issue lengthy ban's on any players involved then their employees (the players suspended) may have an avenue to have the decision overturned and have wages plus penalties paid. Can't see why that is laughable.

 

[sjk]

I haven't seen the current agreement, but wouldn't expect it to be all that different to a previous one:

http://www.auscricket.com.au/media/...australia-code-of-behaviour-201516-season.pdf

A Level 4 offence can include "Any conduct that is considered ‘unfair play’ under Rule 42 of the Laws of Cricket or against the spirit in which the game of cricket should be played". And sanctions for such can include "the imposition of a suspension of between one (1) suspension Point up to a maximum of a lifetime’s suspension".

In any case, if Cricket Australia don't want someone to play, they won't play... I doubt they'll be too fussed about paying out contracts in the bigger scheme of things.

 

[CaptJCool]

I haven't seen the current agreement, but wouldn't expect it to be all that different to a previous one:

http://www.auscricket.com.au/media/...australia-code-of-behaviour-201516-season.pdf

A Level 4 offence can include "Any conduct that is considered ‘unfair play’ under Rule 42 of the Laws of Cricket or against the spirit in which the game of cricket should be played". And sanctions for such can include "the imposition of a suspension of between one (1) suspension Point up to a maximum of a lifetime’s suspension".

In any case, if Cricket Australia don't want someone to play, they won't play... I doubt they'll be too fussed about paying out contracts in the bigger scheme of things.

Smith gone

Australia 5/75 chasing 430. Gone for all money.

 

[JohnK]

Our batting folded like a pack of cards.

Think most of us still in shock.

 

[rock86]

I haven't seen the current agreement, but wouldn't expect it to be all that different to a previous one:

http://www.auscricket.com.au/media/...australia-code-of-behaviour-201516-season.pdf

A Level 4 offence can include "Any conduct that is considered ‘unfair play’ under Rule 42 of the Laws of Cricket or against the spirit in which the game of cricket should be played". And sanctions for such can include "the imposition of a suspension of between one (1) suspension Point up to a maximum of a lifetime’s suspension".

In any case, if Cricket Australia don't want someone to play, they won't play... I doubt they'll be too fussed about paying out contracts in the bigger scheme of things.

It's not even about paying out a contract though. If CA were to ban soeone for life for this (even a bigger over reaction then those ridiculously saying they should get a few years) it's about future lost earnings, CA would have to prove that the action they have taken is fair, and based on past precedence with other situations that would be a mighty hard argument to win, opening up an action for a player to sue them for expected future earnings.

It's all complete conjecture, but it's not as simple as what CA wants they can do in this circumstance.

Anyway, people need to get a grip if this is what get's them so riled up. It's not a good look, but it isn't an isolated incident in world cricket (as some in the media and other spectator may think). So punish them with a match or two suspension and take away their senior leader roles - the stripping of C & VC is more then enough.

 

[QF WP]

I was watching the cricket telecast when I saw it unfold and at first thought "Bancroft's working that ball vigourously, hang on, why did he put his hand back into his pocket?" Then it unfolded like a bad dream. I was thinking Lehmann then had either seen the footage for himself (as they have the TV feed into the players and coaches room) or had been alerted to it, thus the walkie-talkie down to Handscomb and the reason for putting his hand in front of his mouth so nobody could lip read (knowing he was in full view of the cameras). We saw Handscomb mouth an exclamation, then go out on the field to alert Bancroft.

Then it was Trousergate...and the audible comment by either a cameraman or commentator on Foxtel when the yellow piece of tape was clearly viable was "Oh My God." or similar. I knew at that stage it wasn't looking at all good for the Aussies. The attempt to pass off the glasses softcase was unbelievably stupid. Then of course the Tea interval was the commentators picking apart the footage - so I went to bed thinking there's going to be hell to pay at the end of play.

I had saved the news reports and played them to my wife last night, who whilst she is not a cricket follower, was similarly dumbstruck by the mindblowing stupidity that they didn't think they were going to get caught.

Whether Lehmann knew or didn't know - well if he did, he's as guilty as the rest of them. If he didn't - well that's not much of a defence either. If they shielded their plans behind his back, then it does say more about the players involved but also questions whether Lehmann is fit to lead (given the era of sledging and now ball tampering). Ah, the unintended consequences are coming home to roost.

I am ashamed and embarrassed that the "group" involved are representing me as an Australian. I have no doubt it includes more than Smith and Bancroft (the truth will come out) and the investigation by the ACA Head of integrity should make for interesting reading. Glad to see the initial ICC sanctions and am sure there will be more to come for more players, both at ICC and ACA level.

If it means that we lose the next Test (and the Series), then that is squarely on the shoulders of those complicit with the ball tampering decision. I feel sorry for the innocent players, unless they knew about it and chose not to do any action (tell Lehmann or other coaching staff that ball tampering was being contemplated).

Hopefully the rebuilding of the Australian team will include an ethics code that is enforced rigourously - if I need to do them in my industry, maybe it's good enough for the cricketers.

 

[rock86]

Glad to see the initial ICC sanctions and am sure there will be more to come for more players, both at ICC and ACA level.

The ICC have already handed down their punishment, with them actually being fairly heavy handed on Smith based on the past few ball tampering incidents in the past few years (including 2 by none other then our opposing captain). CA will most likely demote Smith & Warner from C & VC and you would presume they wil not ever be back in those roles again, and rightly so. But I highly doubt there'll be much more then that and a couple of Test match bans, which I think is very reasonable - losing their leadership roles will be a very very big deal.

Hopefully the rebuilding of the Australian team will include an ethics code that is enforced rigourously - if I need to do them in my industry, maybe it's good enough for the cricketers.

There already is, and that is what where the additional penalties from CA will come from.

 

[drron]

Though I did think Du Plessis's account of his "ball tampering"in 2016 was a little misleading.He said there was a big difference from his actions in 2016 to this incident.He said shining a ball was a long way from ball tampering.But he was caught rubbing the ball on the zipper of his trousers-doubt that would do much for the shine on the ball.

 

[Rallo]

Though I did think Du Plessis's account of his "ball tampering"in 2016 was a little misleading.He said there was a big difference from his actions in 2016 to this incident.He said shining a ball was a long way from ball tampering.But he was caught rubbing the ball on the zipper of his trousers-doubt that would do much for the shine on the ball.

Michael Vaughan has the same selective interpretation of ball tampering.

 

[rock86]

Though I did think Du Plessis's account of his "ball tampering"in 2016 was a little misleading.He said there was a big difference from his actions in 2016 to this incident.He said shining a ball was a long way from ball tampering.But he was caught rubbing the ball on the zipper of his trousers-doubt that would do much for the shine on the ball.

The 'zipper incident' is much worse as there's an argument as to whether sugary saliva actually does increase shine (it is still however trying to condition a ball illegally), but the zipper quite similar to what they were trying to achieve here. Rubbing the ball on a zipper will cause the ball to get rough easier, this was another premeditated ball tampering incident which reared it's ugly head only fairly recently,

 

[Pushka]

You know that CBA ad, where the couple realizes how much money they spend on take out food for the month? Similar but ebay purchases for me... $378 later.

That’s a great ad isn’t it. I realise I roll my eyes just like the way the guy does when his partner/spouse/wife first mentions she’s got a message from Comm bank.

For me the cricket issue is worse than the rest. It was a plan. Devised by the Team Leaders. Involved a number of players. They selected the most vulnerable. Pretty p poor.

 

[QF WP]

Now the unintended consequences are happening in the aftermath of Trousergate...sponsors are now expressing their disappointment and shock at the cheating scandal. Now the realisation of their action will sink in.

From an article in the Sydney Morning Herald (behind paywall I believe):

Sanitarium, the maker of Weet-Bix and a sponsor of Steve Smith and the Big Bash League, said it did not condone cheating in sport.

“Cricket Australia updated us on this issue as the story broke yesterday and we’re continuing to follow it closely. It’s a shameful moment for Australian sport,” a spokeswoman for Sanitarium said.

“Regarding our sponsorship relationship with Steve Smith, we will assess our response once the management team of Cricket Australia has finalised its investigations.”

Hamish Douglass, chief executive of Magellan Financial Group, which sponsored the 2017-18 Ashes series, said the company was “deeply shocked and concerned by the news of cheating by the Australian Men’s Cricket team. Magellan finds cheating abhorrent".

Mr Douglass also said Magellan was in discussions with Cricket Australia, and expected “a robust and appropriate response from Cricket Australia and will determine our position once we’ve assessed it”.

CBA - a long-term sponsor of cricket - issued a short statement late on Sunday, saying “ We are disappointed about the events that have emerged from the Third Test in South Africa and have asked for a full explanation from Cricket Australia following the conclusion of its investigation into this affair.”

A spokesperson for Qantas, a major sponsor, said: “This is deeply disappointing and certainly not what anyone expects from our national cricket team. We are in discussions with Cricket Australia as this issue unfolds.”

In a statement, health insurer Bupa said: “We are very disappointed in what has emerged and have expressed that to Cricket Australia. We welcome the move for an investigation by the head of Integrity and Team Performance and await the outcome. As a health and care company we believe the game of cricket in Australia is bigger than this incident and the health benefits the sport provides to Australian families is the foundation for our partnership with Cricket Australia.”

While a spokesman for Toyota, Cricket Australia’s official automotive partner said: “We have no comment on the incident itself. However, we do have full confidence in Cricket Australia and its ability to deal with this issue.”

 

[rock86]

Now the unintended consequences are happening in the aftermath of Trousergate...sponsors are now expressing their disappointment and shock at the cheating scandal.s

Sanitarium: "a shameful moment for Australian sport"
Lion: "not what you'd expect from anyone in sport at any level"

Sanitarium, the maker of Weet-Bix and a sponsor of Steve Smith and the Big Bash League, said it did not condone cheating in sport.

“Cricket Australia updated us on this issue as the story broke yesterday and we’re continuing to follow it closely. It’s a shameful moment for Australian sport,” a spokeswoman for Sanitarium said.

“Regarding our sponsorship relationship with Steve Smith, we will assess our response once the management team of Cricket Australia has finalised its investigations.”

Doubt they'll pull any sponsorship though, as bad as this looks, I wouldn't see it having too much of an impact on the medium term as the Aussies aren't back playing in Australia until November and we know how fickle the public is nowadays.

 

[QF WP]

I'm going to chat with one of the sponsors I know and see what they say...

I don't think there will be any movement before the ACA investigation, but I fully expect there to be movement after the report is published...