UK - in or out of the EU? Travel Issues?

[Renato1]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

This notion that the UK is somehow not a sovereign country because it's in the EU is just childish rubbish. Where does it come from? (other than possibly racist paranoia?)

The UK used to be able to sentence its most sadistic criminals to life in jail. The EU ruled that they could not do that - as every prisoner is a human being and has the right to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel and be able to get out of jail.

The EU ordered the UK to close down four (or was it six?) of their coal burning power stations, and the UK did just that. But two years ago, just as the UK was about to go into the biggest blackout of this and last century (there wasn't any wind blowing) they were saved by one of those plants that hadn't been decomissioned yet.

The EU also told Poland to shut down some of its coal fired power stations, but Poland said it was unconstitutional and did not comply.

Meanwhile, after Fukishima, Germany decided to phase out nuclear power and started building lots of coal fired power stations - at the same time that the UK was closing them down.

A couple of years back there was huge rainfall in England which resulted in massive flooding and a huge amount of property damage. The Government, the MET, and climate scientists said that this was evidence of climate change. Meanwhile, more skeptical types said that there had been such rainfall in the past without anywhere near as much damage. The only difference being that new EU regulations had been implemented some years earlier which prevented the dredging of canals and outlets, which had previously been dredged for very many decades.

And the EU now requires the UK to take its share of asylum seekers - asylum seekers who received asylum the minute they walked out of danger when they entered Turkey.

This is a sovereign country?

The Common Market was mainly set up to bring about economic union between France and Germany, to ensure that they didn't go and have yet another destructive war with each other. Which has worked out very well.

As John Howard said recently, Australia has recently signed three free trade agreements to increase its prosperity in the future, but the UK cannot do that - it can only do so through Brussels.

I guess the question for the UK is whether long term it will be wealthier staying in the EU as opposed to leaving it. Given the EU's commitment to going into renewable energy in a really big way (while disregarding the example of Spain, which has nearly bankrupted itself by leading the way in renewables), I expect a very low growth future for the EU.

It will be interesting to see how the vote turns out.
Regards,
Renato

 

[UP4014]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

They're going to exit, why put your country at no 2, why not be completely independent and make every choice the right one for you.

Without wanting to upset people who live in home units (I have in the past) would you rather live in a unit with committee running the joint or your own castle.

Matt

 

[marki]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

The UK used to be able to sentence its most sadistic criminals to life in jail. The EU ruled that they could not do that - as every prisoner is a human being and has the right to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel and be able to get out of jail.

The EU ordered the UK to close down four (or was it six?) of their coal burning power stations, and the UK did just that. But two years ago, just as the UK was about to go into the biggest blackout of this and last century (there wasn't any wind blowing) they were saved by one of those plants that hadn't been decomissioned yet.

The EU also told Poland to shut down some of its coal fired power stations, but Poland said it was unconstitutional an did not comply.

Meanwhile, after Fukishima, Germany decided to phase out nuclear power and started building lots of coal fired power stations - at the same time that the UK was closing them down.

A couple of years back there was huge rainfall in England which resulted in massive flooding and a huge amount of property damage. The Government, the MET, and climate scientists said that this was evidence of climate change. Meanwhile, more skeptical types said that there had been such rainfall in the past without anywhere near as much damage. The only difference being that new EU regulations had been implemented some years earlier which prevented the dredging of canals and outlets, which had previously been dredged for very many decades.

And the EU now requires the UK to take its share of asylum seekers - asylum seekers who received asylum the minute they walked out of danger when they entered Turkey.

This is a sovereign country?

The Common Market was mainly set up to bring about economic union between France and Germany, to ensure that they didn't go and have yet another destructive war with each other. Which has worked out very well.

As John Howard said recently, Australia has recently signed three free trade agreements to increase its prosperity in the future, but the UK cannot do that - it can only do so through Brussels.

I guess the question for the UK is whether long term it will be wealthier staying in the EU as opposed to leaving it. Given the EU's commitment to going into renewable energy in a really big way (while disregarding the example of Spain, which has nearly bankrupted itself by leading the way in renewables), I expect a very low growth future for the EU.

It will be interesting to see how the vote turns out.
Regards,
Renato

Interesting thread and I see what you see Renato very interesting times.

 

[kelvedon]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

The IMF are warning of severe regional and global damage if the UK leaves the EU.

IMF: EU exit could cause severe damage - BBC News

 

[Renato1]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

The IMF are warning of severe regional and global damage if the UK leaves the EU.

IMF: EU exit could cause severe damage - BBC News

Thanks. Interesting article - especially the contrast between the dire warnings of the IMF versus the assessment of Moody's (at the bottom of the page) suggesting minuscule effect.
Regards,
Renato

 

[UP4014]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Thanks. Interesting article - especially the contrast between the dire warnings of the IMF versus the assessment of Moody's (at the bottom of the page) suggesting minuscule effect.
Regards,
Renato

I'd tend to believe Moody's, the IMF have a bias.

 

[alieninperth]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

The UK used to be able to sentence its most sadistic criminals to life in jail. The EU ruled that they could not do that - as every prisoner is a human being and has the right to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel and be able to get out of jail.

The EU ordered the UK to close down four (or was it six?) of their coal burning power stations, and the UK did just that. But two years ago, just as the UK was about to go into the biggest blackout of this and last century (there wasn't any wind blowing) they were saved by one of those plants that hadn't been decomissioned yet.

The EU also told Poland to shut down some of its coal fired power stations, but Poland said it was unconstitutional and did not comply.

Meanwhile, after Fukishima, Germany decided to phase out nuclear power and started building lots of coal fired power stations - at the same time that the UK was closing them down.

A couple of years back there was huge rainfall in England which resulted in massive flooding and a huge amount of property damage. The Government, the MET, and climate scientists said that this was evidence of climate change. Meanwhile, more skeptical types said that there had been such rainfall in the past without anywhere near as much damage. The only difference being that new EU regulations had been implemented some years earlier which prevented the dredging of canals and outlets, which had previously been dredged for very many decades.

And the EU now requires the UK to take its share of asylum seekers - asylum seekers who received asylum the minute they walked out of danger when they entered Turkey.

This is a sovereign country?

The Common Market was mainly set up to bring about economic union between France and Germany, to ensure that they didn't go and have yet another destructive war with each other. Which has worked out very well.

As John Howard said recently, Australia has recently signed three free trade agreements to increase its prosperity in the future, but the UK cannot do that - it can only do so through Brussels.

I guess the question for the UK is whether long term it will be wealthier staying in the EU as opposed to leaving it. Given the EU's commitment to going into renewable energy in a really big way (while disregarding the example of Spain, which has nearly bankrupted itself by leading the way in renewables), I expect a very low growth future for the EU.

It will be interesting to see how the vote turns out.
Regards,
Renato

The vast majority of coal fired power stations that have been closed down since the 1990s in England were at least 40 years old. It would seem that they had reached the end of their useful life. New power stations are being built to replace the ones that cannot be upgraded.

Germany has been moving away from nuclear generation for quite a while, replacing it with renewable. Highly successfully, so I would think that this is the model for renewables rather than Spain, I could be wrong here though.

This is also the first time that I've heard the EU be blamed for the flooding in the UK in recent years. Certainly for the 2015 flood in coughbria the blame was firmly placed at the feet of the Government as flood defences were cut as part of the austerity measures. The only links I were able to find were in the Daily Mail, which I refuse to open on principle, and the Express. There was however a link from the EU stating that dredging is not banned or that the EU decides on water course management (Flooding: Statement on behalf of the European Commission) This resets with the national government.

Lastly, of course the UK will take asylum seekers. This is the only logical result of a regional solution to a global issue. The same holds true for the Pacific solution here. NZ will take some asylum seekers who claim asylum and have their claim supported in another country.

The UK has also signed a GBP40bn and GBP9bn trade deals with China and India respectively, in the last 12 months. While these may not be full blown free trade agreements, they are certainly not chicken feed.

I see the future for the EU a little differently. With Ireland and Portugal returning from severe austerity measures, the spending brake will be taken off. The flow of money will increase and things will pick up.

 

[opusman]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

The UK used to be able to sentence its most sadistic criminals to life in jail. The EU ruled that they could not do that - as every prisoner is a human being and has the right to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel and be able to get out of jail.

I had to Google to find out what you could be referring to; I assume it's this? Mandatory life sentences for murder should end, Lord Woolf says - BBC News

Nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, just the opinion of the former chief justice who is a penal reformer.

It's popular for "brexiters" in the Boris Johnson school to blame the EU for everything; they seem to have learned this technique by watching back episodes of Yes Minister, with plotlines about the "euro-sausage" and similar. All complete garbage.

But even if what you asserted was true - all that's happened is that the UK has signed various treaties and is now having to abide by the terms of those treaties. Absolutely no different to what would happen in the hypothetical case of a "brexit" followed by free-trade agreements that the UK would then be forced to sign individually. Treaties that would need to be abided by.

None of this diminishes the UK's sovereignty - it's laughable to suggest otherwise.

 

[Renato1]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

I had to Google to find out what you could be referring to; I assume it's this? Mandatory life sentences for murder should end, Lord Woolf says - BBC News

Nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, just the opinion of the former chief justice who is a penal reformer.

It's popular for "brexiters" in the Boris Johnson school to blame the EU for everything; they seem to have learned this technique by watching back episodes of Yes Minister, with plotlines about the "euro-sausage" and similar. All complete garbage.

But even if what you asserted was true - all that's happened is that the UK has signed various treaties and is now having to abide by the terms of those treaties. Absolutely no different to what would happen in the hypothetical case of a "brexit" followed by free-trade agreements that the UK would then be forced to sign individually. Treaties that would need to be abided by.

None of this diminishes the UK's sovereignty - it's laughable to suggest otherwise.

Keep Googling - I read it as in article in the Herald-Sun.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Happy Trails]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

The UK used to be able to sentence its most sadistic criminals to life in jail. The EU ruled that they could not do that - as every prisoner is a human being and has the right to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel and be able to get out of jail.

I think you may be confusing the EU with the ECHR.
In any event, it didn't prevail.

 

[opusman]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

I read it as in article in the Herald-Sun.

Say no more.

 

[Renato1]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

The vast majority of coal fired power stations that have been closed down since the 1990s in England were at least 40 years old. It would seem that they had reached the end of their useful life. New power stations are being built to replace the ones that cannot be upgraded.

Germany has been moving away from nuclear generation for quite a while, replacing it with renewable. Highly successfully, so I would think that this is the model for renewables rather than Spain, I could be wrong here though.

This is also the first time that I've heard the EU be blamed for the flooding in the UK in recent years. Certainly for the 2015 flood in coughbria the blame was firmly placed at the feet of the Government as flood defences were cut as part of the austerity measures. The only links I were able to find were in the Daily Mail, which I refuse to open on principle, and the Express. There was however a link from the EU stating that dredging is not banned or that the EU decides on water course management (Flooding: Statement on behalf of the European Commission) This resets with the national government.

Lastly, of course the UK will take asylum seekers. This is the only logical result of a regional solution to a global issue. The same holds true for the Pacific solution here. NZ will take some asylum seekers who claim asylum and have their claim supported in another country.

The UK has also signed a GBP40bn and GBP9bn trade deals with China and India respectively, in the last 12 months. While these may not be full blown free trade agreements, they are certainly not chicken feed.

I see the future for the EU a little differently. With Ireland and Portugal returning from severe austerity measures, the spending brake will be taken off. The flow of money will increase and things will pick up.

The newspaper stories I read at the time in British newspapers said that the EU had mandated the closure of those particular power stations.

From this study, Germany's "Highly successful" move to renewables that you state has occurred results in,
"Germany has been paying over $26 billion per year for electricity that has a wholesale market value of just $5 billion."
http://wpui.wisc.edu/wp-uploads/2014/07/German-Experience-with-Promotion-of-Renewable-Energy.pdf
End result is the cost of electricity per kilowatt-hour jn Germany is 40c compared to the USA at 12.5c.

This is successful?
As for poor old Spain, it's subsidies to renewables was so great that it had to pass laws against people putting up any more solar panels.

As for the Flooding in the UK, while the EU directives say that national governments are responsible for controlling the flooding and that dredging can be done, here are a several articles claiming that dredging is effectively impossible because of the rules associated with disposing of the silt, and how the Directives effectively puts flood control last on the priorities.
Flooding: Somerset Levels disaster is being driven by EU policy - Telegraph
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wor...e-authorities-wont-tell-you-about-the-floods/

That the UK "will take asylum seekers" pretty much supports my point about sovereignty. Germany and the EU decided to let them in, and the UK has to take them too.

As for the future of Europe, if you have the time check out Canadian Ezra Levant's recent trip to Europe and his interviews with asylum seekers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA1xGJyuoAI
Very instructive is his interview with the Somali woman in Sweden who finds the diffference between the Mosque back home in Somalia and that in Sweden markedly different. The Swedish Mosque is much stricter compared to the one back home, and, unlike the one back home, the Swedish Mosque constantly preaches hatred towards the white people of Sweden.

And his interview in Germany with a nun and a dozen or so asylum seekers is especially instructive. They say that they are being persecuted by ISIS in Germany, just as much as they were being persecuted by ISIS back home in Syria.

I really think this does not augur well for Western Europe.

As for the economy, I visit Italy a lot. Most houses have a reliable power supply of 3.4KW - which is barely enough to run two Australian hair dryers (in Australia, our switch cuts out at 20KW I think). If they are willing to pay quite a bit more, they can get 4.5KW. And for a lot more they can get 6.5KW. I know several people over there who went to 6.5KW to run airconditioners, but who then had to abandon them as they couldn't afford the power bills. They look at me dumbfounded when I tell them that back home in Australia I have two phase power delivering 40KW to my house.

So, while I can't extrapolate to the rest of Europe because I don't know what things are like there, I do know that Italy is a G7 country, which is the equal third richest country on the planet on a median basis, but where energy cost and energy supply is such that it is almost starting to look third-world like for the inhabitants. And as the EU keeps pushing its anti-coal, anti-nuclear, pro-renewable agenda, the rest of the EU will inevitably become very Italy-like.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Say no more.

You infer that the Herald-Sun has no authority or credibility.
It's a better paper than The Age, which seems to have alienated a huge chunk of their readers - I used to buy it, then I used to buy it only on Thursdays and read it, then I used to buy it only on Thursdays, pull out The Green Guide, and throw the paper out. Then I stopped buying it altogether.

Anyhow, as has been pointed out, my memory was incorrect, it wasn't the EU but the ECHR.

Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

I think you may be confusing the EU with the ECHR.
In any event, it didn't prevail.

You are correct, thanks.
Regards,
Renato

 

[opusman]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

You infer that the Herald-Sun has no authority or credibility.

Like all the Murdoch press, its editors bend to the will of its owner, and Murdoch hates the EU with a passion. For some reason the bulk of its readership is unable to recognise this.

 

[OATEK]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Like all the Murdoch press, its editors bend to the will of its owner, and Murdoch hates the EU with a passion. For some reason the bulk of its readership is unable to recognise this.

If there was a newspaper out there that I considered was not biased, I might actually buy it - whether Murdoch related or not. These days I might knock off a paper from work, but only for the Sudoku challenge on the way home on the train.

 

[opusman]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

If there was a newspaper out there that I considered was not biased, I might actually buy it - whether Murdoch related or not. These days I might knock off a paper from work, but only for the Sudoku challenge on the way home on the train.

Agreed, most newspapers aren't worth the paper they're printed on. The Age has no journalists left so although the editorial isn't as blatantly biased as the Murdoch press the quality is terrible.

Time for the whole medium to die, to be honest.

 

[alieninperth]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Renato1 I think its fair to say that we are on the opposite side of this one. I've read your post and while I don't agree with everything you've written, you have certainly made some interesting points. When I get a spare half hour or so, I'll have a look at the you tube clip. Suffice to say that the successful integration of new migrants is an issue that the EU needs to address as a whole and is not limited to external migrants.

Safe travels.

 

[UP4014]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Agreed, most newspapers aren't worth the paper they're printed on. The Age has no journalists left so although the editorial isn't as blatantly biased as the Murdoch press the quality is terrible.

Time for the whole medium to die, to be honest.

Murdoch could save money by doing away with the opinion/editorial and simply get the right political parties to supply it for him.

 

[Mal]

Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

I spend a lot of time visiting various parts of London and England at the moment. (technically not working and waiting for my next role)

In conversations I overhear, or participate in, I don't see love for the EU.

It is going to be close, but I suspect again a brexit will win the vote.