Ukraine International Airlines PS752 crashes in Iran [confirmed shot down]

[DC3]

So, I have a little trouble with spelling, can’t be good at everything.

Just blame spellcheck.

 

[Tropic]

The view based on 5 eyes intel that this was an accidental shoot down by unidentified Iranian actors may be right, but this will need to be supported by independently verifiable evidence in due course. This aircraft was flying a well defined and internationally documented departure and was the 13th aircraft to use that runway in the hours post the ballistic attack. Iranian air command (which is highly sophisicated) would have known what was flying where in its airspace during its attack and especially while waiting for any possible incoming retaliation. Unsure how a civilian airliner could even be flying in that environment. Guess time will tell.

 

[Quickstatus]

QF and VA customers will still fly through Iranian Airspace

 

[Berlin]

Okay, all the rather ridiculous denials coming out of Iran now convince me more and more that someone in the Iranian Military shot off that plane, most likely accidentally in the heat of the moment.

Case closed in my mind. But they might well never admit it, similarly to the Russians who still deny shooting down that MH plane.

 

[Berlin]

Just saw this excellent summary of events in the Guardian. The most concise and convincing read on this so far in my mind:

Brinkmanship, nerves and 176 civilian deaths: the Iran air disaster

 

[stoney]

Sadly, as usual, the propagandists at the Guardian can't help themselves and have to attempt to blame Trump for the barbarian actions of the Iranian regime.

Presuming the plane was in fact shot down by Iran then is it fair to say that if Trump had not ordered the killing of the soldier then the horrible downing of the aircraft possibly would not have happened?

 

[jetset]

Iran just admitted it.

Iran admits 'unintentionally' shooting down Ukrainian plane

The statement blamed "human error" for the strike.

www.smh.com.au

 

[drron]

Of course if Solomeini had abided by the UN Security Council's travel ban none of this would have happened.

 

[RooFlyer]

Presuming the plane was in fact shot down by Iran then is it fair to say that if Trump had not ordered the killing of the soldier then the horrible downing of the aircraft possibly would not have happened?

If it was shot down as a 'tit-for-tat', then that would be a reasonable argument. But the fact (ie now admitted by Iran) that it was shot down accidentally, means that it was most likely that - an accident. Not the first time, unfortunately and not the first time Iran has fired missiles off in anger.

 

[flyer89]

I thought it was scientifically impossible though? Snide remarks aside, what a supreme tragedy. Didn’t think we would see something like this again after MH17. This is still mass murder regardless of the lack of intent.

 

[odysseus]

If it was shot down as a 'tit-for-tat', then that would be a reasonable argument. But the fact (ie now admitted by Iran) that it was shot down accidentally, means that it was most likely that - an accident. Not the first time, unfortunately and not the first time Iran has fired missiles off in anger.

Well, being accidental is only a "fact" as much as their previous denial that they had done anything at all and it was a technical fault. So cannot be relied on as complete truth. There are certainly many facts that make this a very unlikely "accident", even if technically possible.

And even if you accept their current version of events, the previous point is this "accident" only arose from the increase in hostilities, not that it would equally have happened without that increase in hostilities.

 

[get me outta here]

Trump pulling out of the nuclear non-proliferation nuclear program, the cascading events since and Iranian air-defence system on its highest alert, mistakenly blasted the aircraft out of the sky. 'It' does end here.

 

[Must...Fly!]

It's impossible to blame one person other than the one who decided to launch the missile. They are completely at fault.

 

[drron]

Except that Trump hasn't pulled out of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty.
He pulled out of the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty with Russia as Russia had continually broken the treaty.Pres. Obama also said they had been breaking the treaty and Europe agreed.

INF nuclear treaty: US pulls out of Cold War-era pact with Russia

The US withdrawal from a Cold War intermediate nuclear missile pact raises fears of a new arms race.

www.bbc.com

Nothing to do with Iran.

He did pull out from the Iran nuclear deal because there was evidence that it was not being truthful.

Iran Breaches the Nuclear Deal and UN Resolutions for Third Time

Iranian leaders have breached both the resolutions and the nuclear agreement for the third time since the nuclear deal went into effect in January 2016. Iran has repeatedly test-fired, long-range ballistic missiles and laser-guided surface-to-surface missiles.

www.huffpost.com

Iran nuclear deal: Why do the limits on uranium enrichment matter?

Iran has broken several restrictions agreed under a 2015 nuclear deal - but why does this matter?

www.bbc.com

 

[Quickstatus]

It goes back further...

If Hilary had not called the voters deplorable she would have won the election and this would not have happened?

If the Russians didn’t fiddle with the elections

Or was it Comey saying the investigation into Clinton reopened just before election?

So many to choose from.

 

[Quickstatus]

It's impossible to blame one person other than the one who decided to launch the missile. They are completely at fault.

the chain of command also liable.

 

[JessicaTam]

[mod hat]
A swathe of off topic posts have been deleted.

Stick to the topic or face the consequences.
[/mod hat]

 

[Quickstatus]

Reports that the orange boxes will be sent to France

 

[amaroo]

The thread title should be changed to .... Iran Shoots down PS752.... the current title is absolutely inaccurate.

 

[serfty]

The thread title should be changed to .... Iran Shoots down PS752.... the current title is absolutely inaccurate.

[moderator hat]

The title is accurate as the flight unfortunately did crash.

This thread is discussion of the crash, the reasons for it and related issues.​

[/moderator hat]