Upcoming Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes

[chorse]

The changes appear designed to drive more people to aim for Silver and Gold levels. The One Platinum level is to keep Plats flying with QF.

Before we can decide whether it is worthwhile to aim for 3600 SCs to achieve 1P, we need to know what the carrot is; as a mininum, I would say Anytime Access including to F lounges, 2 or 3 guests for international lounges, guaranteed upgrades (?how many per year) etc.

Personally, I would not be aiming for 1P, and as the Gold benefits are not too dissimialr to Plat (exception of F lounge and domestic business lounge access), it wouldn't be a huge drop to go from Plat to Gold.

My initial reaction...

Same question here. Normal plat is attainable (with pain) via economy but there is no real benefit apart from the multipliers even with the new plan.

The points bonuses are nice in terms of tradein for vouchers etc but there are no real benefits to a traveller that has to be punished in economy because of the corporate policy. I can completely choose a different airline once gold however and not lose anything

Actually now I think about it the more points might make it more realistic to to a J upgrade periodically.. if they are available

 

[nlagalle]

Airlines don't really make much money from people flying coach. So it doesn't make sense to 'reward' (spend money on) WPs who only fly coach.

without going OT, this discussion has been done to death in the past - in short a WP earning 1200 SC in Y does more flights overall than someone in J. That is just as important to the airline.

 

[MatF]

without going OT, this discussion has been done to death in the past - in short a WP earning 1200 SC in Y does more flights overall than someone in J. That is just as important to the airline.

Absolutely, and fully flexible Y is not cheap ... I can't see how an airline doesn't benefit from 1200 SCs in fully flexible Y.

I'm another one of these "solid" WPs, earning around 1800-2200 SCs a year (I just scraped into PG last qual year, when it was 2100 SCs), with 99% in fully flexible Y domestic.

My flight history for the last few years:
Flight Sector Report - MatF

I can't see much in these changes for me, apart from less relativity to SG.

- Extra cabin bonus won't affect me
- No status bonus love for WPs
- I won't get to Platinum One @ 3600 SCs, so no interest there. I already fly too much, so I doubt I'll ever be interested in flying more to get there.
- I hardly ever fly Jetstar, so no value there
- The loyalty bonus change seems minor to me

These changes are specifically designed to reward our Frequent Flyers

Not me, sadly, and I figure with around 100 QF flights a year, I'd fit into that category.

I'm disappointed, but then I'm used to being disappointed lately to be honest (without wanting to sound melodramatic)

 

[chorse]

As a WP that earns around 1800 SC's a year, these changes do very little to excite me.

There is no real benefit in me keeping my WP now that SG has 75% bonus points, as most my travel is done in discount-Y Domestic.

The only real benefit prior to today was the extra points and the J lounge, along with a few international trips here and there for the F Lounge.

Now, it's 25% more points.

I'm really hoping that Virgin Australia's FF revamp is stunning. I am trying my hardest to get excited about them providing some real competition in the market and actually rewarding frequent flyers as opposed to occasional ones (PS) and frequent spenders. Not long to wait for the revamp at least (by end of June wasn't it?). I have my DJ status match, but just haven't been flying as much since I got it to take advantage of it. From my experience though, I'm treated far better on DJ as a gold than I have ever been on QF

I feel your pain.. Well only a portion of it, you are another 1/3 on top of me for SCs in Y class

 

[nlagalle]

They're not reducing it to zero, they are simply wiping off the SC's not earned in that current membership year.

For example, mine ends at the end of August. Based on current bookings, by 30 Nov I will have earned 480 SCs during that year, plus will have 10 more from the previous year, total of 490. They will wipe off the 10 SC earned in the previous membership year, not the total 490 that is sitting there.

They would be much better off just rolling it over and capping you at 32,000 points, so it works as it does now, except once you clock your 4 bonuses you earn now more. that way bronze or Silver people won't miss out..

Of course they'd be better off not capping it as it hurts their top tier members....

 

[JohnPhelan]

Terms and Conditions have now been updated to reflect Red Roo's comments - new class and status bonuses now apply for flights taken on or from 17 May, not 'bookings'.

Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Terms & Conditions

 

[macrop]

Airlines don't really make much money from people flying coach. So it doesn't make sense to 'reward' (spend money on) WPs who only fly coach.

That may the case for most domestic flights but there are exceptions where Qantas are making a killing too for cattle class. Perth to Karratha would be the case plus a few others in outback WA. Qantas would be licking their lips here. A lot of the companies who fly their employees through this leg are on fully flexible tickets including myself, yet very rarely deviate from their set routine to warrant the need for the fully flexible ticket in the first place. Unique example perhaps though. The very least they could do is give us the very latest 738 planes with a watchable video display as apposed to a coughpy analog system in the older 738s. Qantas....are you listening?.


BOT - As to the limited info on the new Platinum level - I would imagine this is to gauge what Virgin is doing over the next few months. These initial QFF changes are a knee jerk reaction to the recent Virgin changes with QFF more to follow IMO. Competition works wonders.

First post for me on AFF too

 

[Grooba]

If the new magical mark to attain P1 is 3600, I wonder what the retain value might be, say 3000? Attaining might be tough but retaining around that mark may be more realistic to some.

 

[kpc]

As to the limited info on the new Platinum level - I would imagine this is to gauge what Virgin is doing over the next few months. These initial QFF changes are a knee jerk reaction to the recent Virgin changes with QFF more to follow IMO. Competition works wonders.

I think your analysis is close to the truth:idea:

First post for me on AFF too

Welcome to AFF!

 

[pshepvic]

I have a couple of ideas around the "loyalty bonus" for QF to consider - would also like to hear other's thoughts on this.

The new change will mean that infrequent flyers (who you may still consider loyal, assuming they don't fly with other airlines) miss out on a loyalty bonus. For status members, Silver will get either none, or one loyalty bonus. For SG, they will get one or two, and Platinum 2-4.

My Option 1

Instead of making the bonus linked to SCs, link it to status.
At the end of each membership year, whatever status you are on determines the bonus & keeps the PS members happy who otherwise would in many cases not get the bonus:
PS - 4,000 (Silvers now get 0-1 bonuses, so meet in the middle)
SG - 12,000 (Golds now get 1-2 bonuses, so again meet in the middle)
WP - 24,000 (Platinums now get 2-4 bonuses, so middle ground again)
WP+PG equivalent - 74,000 (or 24,000 + PG option etc)
WP1 - 100,000 (or 50,000 plus Partner Platinum? now there's another idea...)
For non-status members, maybe give them a 2,000 point bonus if they get to 150 SCs (kind of like a participation award!)

My Option 2
In addition to the Cabin Bonus and Status Bonus, introduce a "loyalty bonus" based on SC's on each flight. Every SC you earn also gets 15 bonus points, on top of what you earn for the flight.

Eg. If you did 1000 SC's in a year, the loyalty bonus would be 15,000 bonus points. 2000 would be 30,000 etc. That's pretty close to the current bonuses, although at 2400 SCs they'd still need to keep the WP+PG or 50k option, and maybe introduce another bonus at WP1.

That could make it farer - removing the need to achieve specific thresholds, but still rewarding the more you fly, and the further you fly. Of course this would always be an amount on top of the minimum points guarantee, as for most zone 1 trips this wipes out any status bonus.


Just a couple of ideas ... Discuss!

 

[pshepvic]

Not a good example; assuming you cross 450 SC's mid November, you would have earned 5K.

Now you have 30 since august and 10 from beforehand giving 40 counting with 410 until you next 5K.

If no further earn, then on 2nd December you will have 30 counting and 470 to go until an 8K earn.


It's obvious Qantas see this as a material degradation to the Program for members - that's why they are giving the six months notice as per their T&C's.

Yeah, sorry forgot that I would have got the Loyalty Bonus in November, so they'd be wiped off. But I've still got the bonus there so not complaining! If I'd gone with an example under 450, then it would have been right!

But I guess my point is that they are not going to wipe everyone to zero on 1 December. They are only wiping off the SC's sitting there in the Loyalty Bonus "pool" from the previous membership year, not the current one.

 

[pshepvic]

without going OT, this discussion has been done to death in the past - in short a WP earning 1200 SC in Y does more flights overall than someone in J. That is just as important to the airline.

Very true - in fact a pax traveling in Full Y class fare in some cases may be more profitable for the airline. In some cases the full Y fare could be $500 and a "cheap" J fare might only be $600. They can fit 3 full Y customers in a row, but only 2 in J. So 3 customers in Full Y might be $1500 in revenue minus costs, whereas 2 in J is $1200 minus costs. The costs in J are also more which widens the gap - 1 flight attendant for 12 pax (737) vs 1 FA for every 60 or so in Y. The meal costs more, the points earned cost marginally more, the J passenger gets J lounge access (this difference is negated once the Y passenger is WP obviously).

But all in all, there are many Full Y seats sold that make more profit than the J seats on the same aircraft.

 

[awilcockson]

They're not reducing it to zero, they are simply wiping off the SC's not earned in that current membership year.

For example, mine ends at the end of August. Based on current bookings, by 30 Nov I will have earned 480 SCs during that year, plus will have 10 more from the previous year, total of 490. They will wipe off the 10 SC earned in the previous membership year, not the total 490 that is sitting there.

That's nice for you, for me (and a lot of others) they will be wiping the balance completely.

 

[Red Roo]

If I've understood this correctly then, for example, QF303 PER-JNB on SA would earn the status bonus. If so, I think this is something worth promoting. But maybe I've misinterpreted.

Correct. Codeshares under QF code continue to attract cabin and status bonuses, as applicable. The only change as a result of today's announcements is that status and cabin bonuses have changed.

And finally, thank you again Red Roo for sticking around today (and hopefully beyond) to answer questions and respond to feedback.

No worries, I'll be back in the morning.

 

[pshepvic]

That's nice for you, for me (and a lot of others) they will be wiping the balance completely.

Only if none of those SCs were earned in the current membership year at the time. There were comments made before that suggested ALL SCs are wiped, which is not the case, unless of course 1. You've had no flights in that year or 2. Your membership year happens to coincide and end on Nov 30.

 

[russ]

Red Roo, given that you are already giving WPs domestic J and international F lounge access, how are you going to give better lounge access for recently announced P1 tier? Won't you have to push the WPs back into the standard QP in order to make P1 worthwhile?

 

[Alanslegal]

Red Roo, given that you are already giving WPs domestic J and international F lounge access, how are you going to give better lounge access for recently announced P1 tier? Won't you have to push the WPs back into the standard QP in order to make P1 worthwhile?

maybe p1 status will have benefits like multiple confirmed upgrades etc

 

[pshepvic]

Red Roo, given that you are already giving WPs domestic J and international F lounge access, how are you going to give better lounge access for recently announced P1 tier? Won't you have to push the WPs back into the standard QP in order to make P1 worthwhile?

Then SG's would have to get pushed back too ... maybe to the Departure Lounge?

Removing Any Time Access was bad enough for lots of the WPs (although didn't bother me as I only qualified a month after it was gone, and all my o/s trips to date have been with QF or OW, so wouldn't have used it anyway) so if you took away J lounge access I think they'd all hit the roof! (Would be a bit mean too considering J lounges weren't around that long ago).

Personally I wouldn't mind if they reduced the guest access to 1 person, or go back to a pass system (with a limited number for the year) - I've never taken anyone into the J lounge myself, although I'm sure a lot of people milk it for all it's worth.

I reckon if they took F lounge access away as well (which some have speculated) they'd have a riot on their hands. Plus the F lounges would be almost empty if it was only WP1's, CL's and F pax in there!

 

[straitman]

No worries, I'll be back in the morning.

.... no doubt some people will be here most of the night :!: :shock:

 

[samiam]

I am starting at Post 1 - what hope do I have...

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Talk about a feeding frenzy!