Upgrade confirmed in morning, but cancelled on check-in

[MEL_Traveller]

20,000 points LOL & LOL

It was a CONFIRMED UPGRADE

Planes change
Customers change
Stuff happens

You would be lucky to get 5000 points out of Qantas for this, bad business - That's your opinion. If QF sold the seat instead of a points upgrade that is good business

I truly doubt it was a case of QF selling the seat to another passenger, because it simply wasn't their seat to sell. someone already bought that seat by virtue of paying the asking price - the points for the upgrade.

by your reasoning, if i sell my house to you, you pay your deposit, but a month later someone else comes along and offers me a higher price, i can stiff you and give the house to another person because 'that is good business sense'?

nah!! there are laws against that.

 

[lovestotravel]

Either way, sale of the J seat and/or equipment change

Points were refunded - No real harm done! Far from idea, but I can imagine it happens!

I am sure that any Silver/Gold/Plat/P1/CL upgrades were protected first as well

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Either way, sale of the J seat and/or equipment change

Points were refunded - No real harm done! Far from idea, but I can imagine it happens!

I am sure that any Silver/Gold/Plat/P1/CL upgrades were protected first as well

Plenty of harm was done. A potentially loyal and good customer has been severely upset by this.

It is the equivalent of booking an award seat in J and being downgraded at the airport, it shouldn't just be 'too bad , so sad'. It's bad business

 

[Happy Trails]

Equipment change seems unlikely as the aircraft would have been either en route or already on the ground at NRT when the upgrade was confirmed.

 

[pugwombat]

Either way, sale of the J seat and/or equipment change

Points were refunded - No real harm done! Far from idea, but I can imagine it happens!

I am sure that any Silver/Gold/Plat/P1/CL upgrades were protected first as well

No real harm was done, eh?

Well, I for one would take issue with that.

I reckon they found someone who was prepared to pay for the seats, or who was a Platinum FF and they decided they could stiff me because I am just a Gold FF. My original point was: I am still mightily pissed off. I spend a heap on Qantas flights (mostly for my employees). Qantas thought that they could get away with giving the seats to someone who was worth more to them, because, hey he's just a Gold FF, he's not worth that much to us. Which is why I'm fully prepared to take my $80-90k and give it to another airline that does value loyalty.

It isn't just the lost upgrade, because if they'd told me beforehand that there hadn't been seats available then I would have accepted it (but would have been disappointed). It was their view that offering and then retracting the offer of Business Class seats was acceptable, because they thought they could do so without consequence. I'm telling them that there are consequences in really annoying loyal customers.

 

[HKGNZL]

I would be disgusted and none of the attempted 'excuses' of QF is convincing. If QF has texted to confirm an upgrade, it is not the customer's duty to go to Amadeus Checkmytrip and confirm that QF is not lying. Once they gave the message of upgrade, then the OP should be given the same rights as any J pax. If there was a plane change, then the OP should be compensated as any other J pax.

The OP should take his company's business travel elsewhere.

 

[mannej]

One thing this thread hasn't answered yet is why the upgrade was taken back. Up until that point the conjecture about what down is really just assumptions without much base to them.

There are times where the airline may not have much choice (faulty seat, equipment change etc), but it is how the airline recovers the situation. From what has been described here it seems that QF haven't handled it particularly well. Perhaps a PM to RedRoo may help expedite a resolution.

 

[opusman]

by your reasoning, if i sell my house to you, you pay your deposit, but a month later someone else comes along and offers me a higher price, i can stiff you and give the house to another person because 'that is good business sense'?

Off-topic, but actually in the UK - yes, yes you can!

 

[ReLoad]

Firstly, Pugwombat, thanks for posting about your issue, I for one would appreciate that you keep us in the loop as to the outcome there is a chance for precedence to be set as to what happens.

Now as to what went down, pretty poor by QF, even more so by the check in staff to not tell you why (chances are there would be a trail in the booking somewhere) i.e who pulled you back out of J.
Whats even poorer is that you lost your seats in Y+ and ended up with a much inferior seat selection, and as you suggest with the bassinets and babies (thats nobodies idea of flying well!)

If i can offer some advice, write a complaint out, remove all the emotion out of it and let QF deal with it, then deal with the outcome again if you don't get the answer you are looking for.

This is a both a great opportunity for you (to either re-affirm that QF are cool) - by making it up to you or by making a decision for you in that you move to another carrier.
I personally stay with QF even though they are not the best because their service recovery and ability when things go wrong to fix it, fix it well and get me where i need to be.

Again please keep us in the loop and sorry you had to go through that nonsense.

 

[medhead]

I truly doubt it was a case of QF selling the seat to another passenger, because it simply wasn't their seat to sell. someone already bought that seat by virtue of paying the asking price - the points for the upgrade.

by your reasoning, if i sell my house to you, you pay your deposit, but a month later someone else comes along and offers me a higher price, i can stiff you and give the house to another person because 'that is good business sense'?

nah!! there are laws against that.

Well hopefully there would be a signed contract in place to prevent you just changing your mind. Apparently, unlike with an upgrade.

 

[lovestotravel]

No real harm was done, eh?

Well, I for one would take issue with that.

I reckon they found someone who was prepared to pay for the seats, or who was a Platinum FF and they decided they could stiff me because I am just a Gold FF. My original point was: I am still mightily pissed off. I spend a heap on Qantas flights (mostly for my employees). Qantas thought that they could get away with giving the seats to someone who was worth more to them, because, hey he's just a Gold FF, he's not worth that much to us. Which is why I'm fully prepared to take my $80-90k and give it to another airline that does value loyalty.

It isn't just the lost upgrade, because if they'd told me beforehand that there hadn't been seats available then I would have accepted it (but would have been disappointed). It was their view that offering and then retracting the offer of Business Class seats was acceptable, because they thought they could do so without consequence. I'm telling them that there are consequences in really annoying loyal customers.

So they looked after someone who is more valuable, that being a Platinum member, or above, and/or took real money instead of points for the seat

I have no issue with QF doing that!

Equipment changes
Seats change

That's life

I booked the new SQ F for a flight shortly, and SQ cancelled my flight and moved me to another aircraft with an older product. In this case I was able to call and move to suites on the A380, but I was happy enough to understand that flights/equipment can and will change.

End of the day the points were refunded and you still got from A to B. A proper apology and a goodwill gesture from QF would be nice but apart from that it's bad luck!

 

[lovestotravel]

One thing this thread hasn't answered yet is why the upgrade was taken back. Up until that point the conjecture about what down is really just assumptions without much base to them.

There are times where the airline may not have much choice (faulty seat, equipment change etc), but it is how the airline recovers the situation. From what has been described here it seems that QF haven't handled it particularly well. Perhaps a PM to RedRoo may help expedite a resolution.

Right so what do you think happened then ?

As for getting the real reason from QF, it won't happen!

 

[mannej]

Right so what do you think happened then ?

As for getting the real reason from QF, it won't happen!

There's no proof as to what happened, that's my point, yet there are many experts as to what should occur even without the full facts. I am not going to say either was as that would just be adding to the conjecture.

If QF choose to tell the OP as part of their service recovery, that is their prerogative. Is compensation due? Perhaps, but it would be nice if QF were proactive in dealing with it.

As for the agents at NRT knowing why or who got moved, OBB is quite explicit in stating that they wouldn't have that info available to them unless they were in reservations.

 

[Mal]

I agree that this is not acceptable. Compensation should be sought and granted.

And I am curious why so many people shrug this off.... Why?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I agree that this is not acceptable. Compensation should be sought and granted.

And I am curious why so many people shrug this off.... Why?

I think there is only one person shrugging this off... and they may not understand the basics of contract or the legal basis for the terms and conditions put forward by the airline.

given the aircraft and configuration was known at the time the seat in the newer class was PAID for (a point which some seem to overlook) then there needs to be a jolly good explanation.

 

[Scott Brown]

A similar thing happened to me over Christmas MEL-CHC. The J upgrade appeared in my booking but I never got the upgrade text and the J entry disappeared from my booking day before I was due to fly. The original Y booking then came back in. I didn't count my chickens and as it turned out they didn't hatch. No aggro on my part with QF tho. I probably got pushed out by a WP1 at the last moment.

 

[lovestotravel]

I think there is only one person shrugging this off... and they may not understand the basics of contract or the legal basis for the terms and conditions put forward by the airline.

given the aircraft and configuration was known at the time the seat in the newer class was PAID for (a point which some seem to overlook) then there needs to be a jolly good explanation.

Incorrect assumption

You were trying to compare an upgrade to selling a house, and it appears in the UK and Wales you can accept a higher bidder after an offer has been accepted but that's being ignored now

In fact, the Qantas Condition of Carriage are quite clear in regards to this:

4.7 Seating Selection and Allocation
Although we will try to accommodate your seating need or choice, we do not guarantee you any particular seat. We may need to change your seat at any time, even after you have boarded the aircraft, for operational, safety or security reasons. If we need to ask you to downgrade for any reason, we will at your option:

• provide you with an appropriate refund of the difference in fares (or an appropriate credit of Qantas Points in the event that you are travelling on a Qantas Frequent Flyer Award), or
• accommodate you on a reasonable alternative available flight on our services."

You won't get an explanation, "operational reasons" is about all you will get, if anything

The bad part would have been the staff member at NRT not being that helpful!

 

[Aussie_flyer]

A similar thing happened to me over Christmas MEL-CHC. The J upgrade appeared in my booking but I never got the upgrade text and the J entry disappeared from my booking day before I was due to fly. The original Y booking then came back in. I didn't count my chickens and as it turned out they didn't hatch. No aggro on my part with QF tho. I probably got pushed out by a WP1 at the last moment.

The J entry would have been a waitlisted segment most likely. The QF system will add in this segment in the leadup to the flight and will remove it if it's unsuccessful

 

[moa999]

Interesting looking at Qantas Source - there appears to be a wide variety of equipment on the route.
- Mostly 56J/40W/275Y AND 58J/36W/270Y

The day in Question (Mon 20Jan I assume) was the lower seat number 56J.

Thus OP could have been processed on the basis of a 58J seat plane that had a last minute sub before QF21 went out.

Alternatively say the upgrade had been given and you had a fully booked J cabin,
and a few seats went on the flight over (locked in a mid-position - thus illegal to use for takeoff).
Staff have to downgrade someone - do they choose the cash fares, or the upgrades.
I suspect the upgrades.

---

That said I would have expected the OP to get a better explanation at check-in, an apology from the CSM on-board, and probably to be offered some of the J food/drinks during the trip.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I'm finding it hard to believe that OP would have been sent back to Y because QF sold the seats so late in the day. If this was operational procedure, then I reckon we'd have a lot more reports of this happening, and as FF we'd be taking this risk into account.

My guess is that QF needed to put staff or some other VIP on the plane, or maybe some seats/oxy masks/whatever went tech, and they didn't have enough J seats for all the pax. Either way, some kind of goodwill gesture should be extended to the OP IMHO, especially due to the last minute nature of the downgrade.