Upgrade confirmed in morning, but cancelled on check-in

[lovestotravel]

That said I would have expected the OP to get a better explanation at check-in, an apology from the CSM on-board, and probably to be offered some of the J food/drinks during the trip.

Yep that would have been perfectly acceptable, but QF failed big-time in this area!

 

[mannej]

That said I would have expected the OP to get a better explanation at check-in, an apology from the CSM on-board, and probably to be offered some of the J food/drinks during the trip.

As explained by OBB, check in staff may not have been aware of the situation at all.

The airport staff would only see the class you're in at that time you checkin at the airport ie in the Altea system unless they were trained in reservations & they could delve into the pnr history but as it's an overseas port I doubt it.

However I agree that there may have been reasons which may or may not have forced QF's hand. It is how they handle it which recovers the service and it looks like they haven't handled it well from the information provided.

 

[equus]

Thing is, once confirmed, according to the conditions, OP should have been given the option to choose either the downgrade, or to fly J on an alternative flight.

It will not always be the upgrades that get picked on either. Have been (with 2 pax, and only PS at the time) on SYD-HKG upgraded Y to J. Aircraft substitution (after check in, they needed the plane to replace another that went tech). Less J seats on new configuration and people were being told they were either being downgraded to Y, or would have to fly later. We were not affected, other than seat allocations were no longer together, and had to swap after take off. I know from hearing some of the conversations of staff with those being downgraded, that they were paid J tix.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Incorrect assumption

You were trying to compare an upgrade to selling a house, and it appears in the UK and Wales you can accept a higher bidder after an offer has been accepted but that's being ignored now

In fact, the Qantas Condition of Carriage are quite clear in regards to this:

4.7 Seating Selection and Allocation
Although we will try to accommodate your seating need or choice, we do not guarantee you any particular seat. We may need to change your seat at any time, even after you have boarded the aircraft, for operational, safety or security reasons. If we need to ask you to downgrade for any reason, we will at your option:

• provide you with an appropriate refund of the difference in fares (or an appropriate credit of Qantas Points in the event that you are travelling on a Qantas Frequent Flyer Award), or
• accommodate you on a reasonable alternative available flight on our services."

You won't get an explanation, "operational reasons" is about all you will get, if anything

The bad part would have been the staff member at NRT not being that helpful!

we are not talking about the UK. We are talking about an australian company with a purchased business class seat.

'for any reason' is potentially to vague for a term in a contract. i doubt whether it is enforceable.

a downgrade for operational reasons - which would most likely be safety or security related (not because they can resell the seat) - is a possibility. But you would want evidence that the breach of contract is due to safety or security reasons.

Again - another reason why we need an Eu261 here.

 

[HKGNZL]

I agree that this is not acceptable. Compensation should be sought and granted.

And I am curious why so many people shrug this off.... Why?

Agree! These are the people that keep QF alive.

 

[pugwombat]

Ok everyone. I just heard from Red Roo... Qantas is looking into this and will get back to me tomorrow. I hope they at least say sorry, I don't want to abandon Qantas over one incident, no matter how grumpy it made me (or my wife) at the time. I will keep you posted.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Ok everyone. I just heard from Red Roo... Qantas is looking into this and will get back to me tomorrow. I hope they at least say sorry, I don't want to abandon Qantas over one incident, no matter how grumpy it made me (or my wife) at the time. I will keep you posted.

question is, why not go with a carrier that guarantees your upgrade (ie in advance or at time of booking) or with another airline that has cheaper awards?

 

[basso]

It's pretty poor form on QF's behalf. My guess is they sold the seats or upgraded someone higher in the pecking order at the last minute, or had to reaccomodate other high value pax.

My guess is it was just a SNAFU - As has been said elsewhere 'Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.'

 

[AnonymousCoward]

question is, why not go with a carrier that guarantees your upgrade (ie in advance or at time of booking) or with another airline that has cheaper awards?

Hmm - if the reason is that there aren't enough seats (e.g. due to tech issues on the day), then even on another a carrier you still face the risk of a downgrade, wouldn't you?

The only other airline that operates NRT-SYD direct is JAL - are their awards cheaper (I have no idea)?

 

[MelUser]

I'd be interested to know at what time they checked in?

I wonder whether it would have happened to the last 2 or 4 or whatever J passengers to check in for the flight after the aircraft change.

The other thing with upgrades is that they are not always processed correctly. The automatic upgrade computer doesn't always work properly. Also, I have found that very few people at QF actually understand how points upgrades are processed.

I have checked in at MEL for a MEL-SYD-LAX before where the upgrade hadn't processed correctly. Check in staff were unable and unwilling to help. I phoned reservations from Melbourne lounge and by the time I got to First Lounge in Sydney, a new boarding pass was waiting for me.

In this case they would have been contract staff doing check in who would just follow computer prompts.

I'd still like to know also - was ticket correctly revalidated? I suspect not.

Were points taken from the account? Again, I suspect not.

My guess this was an upgrade which the passenger thought they had but really wasn't a correctly processed upgrade.

By the way with the SMSes from QF when one is overseas, (1) they don't always come and (2) sometimes they say something like - please come to Qantas desk and collect a new boarding pass - ie they don't mention an upgrade at all.

We would all here appreciate a report back from the pax in question (or what some here call an "OP", whatever that means!)

 

[ozbeachbabe]

We would all here appreciate a report back from the pax in question (or what some here call an "OP", whatever that means!)

OP = original poster ie the person who started the thread.

 

[JohnK]

So they looked after someone who is more valuable, that being a Platinum member, or above, and/or took real money instead of points for the seat

....

End of the day the points were refunded and you still got from A to B. A proper apology and a goodwill gesture from QF would be nice but apart from that it's bad luck!

So using your analogy it would be totally OK when you turn up to the airport expecting to be seated in an SQ F suite using el cheapo US Airways miles but find yourself seated in economy with a full refund of points? You still get from A->B. Right? After all someone offered to pay for that F suite and you were the only one that used points and the rest of the aircraft was full.

It should never be acceptable. This is not good enough. I would whinge and whinge until I got a satisfactory result and the only satisfactory result in this situation is 2 fully confirmed business class tickets to make up for what they missed out.

 

[JohnK]

Were points taken from the account? Again, I suspect not.

Mentioned early on in the thread. Points were deducted from account and then reinstated.

I would have booked Business Class, but it was holiday travel and I'm pretty sure my accountant would have knocked the claim on the head.

I was told that there were no J seats available and that Qantas in Australia had made a mistake. The points were deducted and then reinstated.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

So using your analogy it would be totally OK when you turn up to the airport expecting to be seated in an SQ F suite using el cheapo US Airways miles but find yourself seated in economy with a full refund of points? You still get from A->B. Right? After all someone offered to pay for that F suite and you were the only one that used points and the rest of the aircraft was full.

It should never be acceptable. This is not good enough. I would whinge and whinge until I got a satisfactory result and the only satisfactory result in this situation is 2 fully confirmed business class tickets to make up for what they missed out.

For once I agree with you

 

[boomy]

So using your analogy it would be totally OK when you turn up to the airport expecting to be seated in an SQ F suite using el cheapo US Airways miles but find yourself seated in economy with a full refund of points? You still get from A->B. Right? After all someone offered to pay for that F suite and you were the only one that used points and the rest of the aircraft was full.

It should never be acceptable. This is not good enough. I would whinge and whinge until I got a satisfactory result and the only satisfactory result in this situation is 2 fully confirmed business class tickets to make up for what they missed out.

Well said!
Downgrading from J should be followed by a proper compensation. No matter if the ticket was confirmed 6 months ago or on the day.
Someone even got compensated for an aircraft change when his F seat was "downgraded" from A380 F to 747 F on TG, and he booked the ticket using USDM miles!
http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=Hx0L.&m=3fYOXUJ3wbNhZAH&b=TI4ikhacVDahEnoDgcLzZQ

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well said!
Downgrading from J should be followed by a proper compensation. No matter if the ticket was confirmed 6 months ago or on the day.
Someone even got compensated for an aircraft change when his F seat was "downgraded" from A380 F to 747 F on TG, and he booked the ticket using USDM miles!
Compensation Clinic: Thai Airways A380 To 747 Downgrade (Equipment Swap) | LoyaltyLobby

the point is, without a forced compensation scheme similar to EU261, some airlines think they can just give you the miles back and that's all they have to do. their customer charter even says that.

as for being 'downgraded' from the a380 to the 747... something doesn't seem quite right about that... either the passenger (for wanting compensation) or Thai (for agreeing to offer compensation). I'm not sure which one is being an idiot.

im just wondering if there is more to the story? I wonder if the equipment change was not only from an a380 to a 747, but maybe the 747 was not offering first class? (perhaps first class cabin but with business class service like they do on some domestic flights?)

9000 baht for a short flight sounds more like a class downgrade compensation.

 

[boomy]

as for being 'downgraded' from the a380 to the 747... something doesn't seem quite right about that... either the passenger (for wanting compensation) or Thai (for agreeing to offer compensation). I'm not sure which one is being an idiot.

I brought this case as an extreme example to what people can get compensated for. I think both the passenger (for asking compensation) and Thai (for offering anything) were idiots in this case.

 

[MrJetset]

Well said!
Downgrading from J should be followed by a proper compensation. No matter if the ticket was confirmed 6 months ago or on the day.
Someone even got compensated for an aircraft change when his F seat was "downgraded" from A380 F to 747 F on TG, and he booked the ticket using USDM miles!
Compensation Clinic: Thai Airways A380 To 747 Downgrade (Equipment Swap) | LoyaltyLobby

BA is now compensating pax who don't receive NF.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I guess the question is was the OP actually ever upgraded or was it a SMS fail? If no points were deducted then it's hard to claim the booking was downgraded right?

OP: Sure it wasn't someone playing a trick on you?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I guess the question is was the OP actually ever upgraded or was it a SMS fail? If no points were deducted then it's hard to claim the booking was downgraded right?

OP: Sure it wasn't someone playing a trick on you?

the OP said the points were deducted.