US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

[anat0l]

The earning of the MR reward points, which eventually become DM miles is incidental to spend on something though, so you can't really compare it to the cost of buying a dividend mile directly.

The rate of 0.6ish miles per $1 isn't a million miles away from what some plat visa cards earn...2 miles per $3 etc.

Makes sense, but it's a slow bleed rate to get the same result quicker (and still not completely painful). There are better things to use your MR points beyond sweeping them to US. In fact, sweeping them to SPG and using that to pay for your hotels on your US DM trip is a good start....

 

[Foreigner]

@ MEL Traveller and bcworld

Friend rang and paid her seats confirmed ALL in business. Was meant to be one seat in first but didn't reserve that way. Friend was happy enough with business all the way.

So 110 000 and $140.

All good... have posted in the successful..!

Friend may register in OZ frequent flyer program and then use login and pw to check her booking and also select seat. I'll be doing these things and requesting my special meals for my booking for SYD-ICN.

 

[casanovawa]

Yeah your correct that the MR-SPG-DM sweep would come after you had already bought other stuff rather than just buying DM's straight so its an added bonus...

What i am thinking about is the best earn/burn rates for award flights and from what i have seen the offers at DM look pretty attractive. Not so much into hotel stays as i tend to stay in backpackers or hostels or couch surf with people unless work is paying for my travel.. And not even necessarily earn flights completely but top up towards flights or maybe be the different between a Y and J booking after mostly buying DM via regular 100% bouns offers... Only real prob is there are no star alliance carriers in Aust...

I am not really up with the earn and burn rates with Kris flyer which maybe better than DM but can't be combined with it i don't think so fragments up FF points/miles earna cross different ones...

So currently with Qantas at the mo i can earn 1 point per $1 with WWEDRCC and 1.5 points per $1 with ANZ Amex Plat... (strictly there are more points because shopping at WW you earn QF points on the $ spend over $30 (although i don't get much of this) and the card spend
With an Amex MR card i could get the equivalent of 0.6 DM miles per $1 cc spend...

Return flight Perth to LHR or LAX with QF is about 112,000 pts or double that in J with $800-1000 taxes and surcharges
Return flight Perth to LHR or LAX with DM *A carriers is 80,000 in Y or 120,000/110,000 in J with a possible stop over in another continental region plus $2-300 taxes and surcharges

It sort of looks like QF comes out ahead in raw terms of earn/burn for Y flights but for J would come down in favour of DM... Then again if you took the $800 cash difference in taxes and surcharges which would probably buy pretty close to what 60,000 DM up front the equation only becomes

(60,000) + 20,000 at 0.6 DM/$ = $34,000 of spend or (60,000) + 60,000 (for J) at 0.6 DM/$ = $100,000 of spend
vs
112,000 (at best earn rate of 1.5 points) = $75,000 spend???

The issue of no *A Australia
Perth to E/States = 36,000 QFF return (at best 1.5 earn rate) = $24,000 card spend
Perth - NZ - E/States = 25,000 DM return = $42,000 card spend

Not sure how DM's taxes and surcharges to NZ would compare to QF's probably fairly minimal within Australia...

So if most flights were going to be in Australia QF beats DM, if most was going to be international (which is what i do), especially if you wanted to fly J then DM even at a coughpy 0.6 conversion rate beats QF???

 

[travelislife]

Very interesting when you put it like that Casanova. The huge disparity in burn rates always makes a massive difference when Qantas is involved, and then when you get to the surcharges the calculation becomes very interesting, because as you say the US programs have much lower fees.

I am still amazed at the 'fuel surcharges' airlines charge. Is fuel not just a cost of doing business in that industry? Therefore yes the ticket prices will rise and fall due to fuel prices, but due to hedging they are able to keep prices stable for set 6 month periods approximately. I just find it incredulous that they are able to add it on as a separate charge. I have no idea what the regulatory framework is for things like 'rewards' within business. But the way I see it they should offer the tickets 'free' with only compulsory government charges to be paid. This is a whole other topic though which I am sure would get some interesting responses. It is one thing Emirates can be commended on, not having the fuel surcharge, it is a part of the ticket price as it should be. The only good thing is in Australia they don't allow breakdown pricing, this is a massive problem in Thailand where advertised prices these days have to be nearly doubled to get anywhere near the real price. An advertised price really means nothing as none of the general public will have any idea what the amount of added charges is as it varies between the airline.

 

[shane2603]

Excellent thread and very helpful just booked 2 in F syd-bkk TG bkk-fra TG FRA-Prague LH returning Ansterdam- FRA LH FRA- ICN LH ICN-BKK TG then BKK-SYD TG for 150,000 DM

 

[lmere12]

Friend may register in OZ frequent flyer program and then use login and pw to check her booking and also select seat. I'll be doing these things and requesting my special meals for my booking for SYD-ICN.

Thanks thats great, will let her know

 

[lmere12]

Excellent thread and very helpful just booked 2 in F syd-bkk TG bkk-fra TG FRA-Prague LH returning Ansterdam- FRA LH FRA- ICN LH ICN-BKK TG then BKK-SYD TG for 150,000 DM

Sounds great! how much were your taxes ? If you would like to post this in a new thread of successful bookings would be good.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....rams/us-dividend-miles-post-your-33057-2.html

thanks

 

[shane2603]

Taxes and fees were $320

 

[kpc]

Does anyone know how far in advance does US Airways allow you to book partner awards eg TG, LH, OZ?
The ANA tool allows you to see TG award inventory from about 330 days out, and Aeroplan from about 337 days out. I guess the important issue is how far in advance can US Airways see TG (and other partner) award availability, so one can book?

 

[Stephen65]

Casanova

I was intrigued by your post to try and do a comparison of my own.

I am flying MEL-FRA next year on TG in J using *A DM. Cost is 120,000 DM + $175 fees and taxes.

120,000 DM = $193,861 Amex spend when converting MR via SPG at 0.619 DM per $1 Amex

In comparison flying MEL-FRA on QF in J is 256,000 points on a classic J award + $825 in fees and charges

256,000 QFF = $170,666 Amex spend but the QF fare costs $650 extra

To try and equate the total cost assume we took that $650 and used it to buy DM, buying them at their full cost would give you about 22,000 DM (44,000 if you wait for the 2-1 deal window to open again).

Those 22,000 DM would reduce the DM needed from Amex spend to 98,000 or $158,319 so the comparable costs would be:

*A = ($175 fees and charges + $650 spent on buying DM) + $158,319 Amex spend

QF = $825 fees and charges + 170,666 Amex spend

So on that basis the *A fare is slightly cheaper. I've assumed parity between A$ and US$ for this exercise. It's also a factor that I am flying from MEL instead of PER because MEL-FRA and PER-FRA are the same cost in DM but cheaper in QFF points so DM is more advantageous for eastern staters wanting to fly to Europe than westralians. The reverse may be true for flights east to the USA.

If you wanted to fly F the *A fare is even better value because a QF F award costs 150% the QFF points of a J award while a *A F fare only costs 125% the DM of a J fare.

For me the moral of the story is to keep my Amex MR points as MR points instead of converting them to QFF points that way I can wait and see whether its better to use them as QFF points or DM. It would also be great to find some way to convert spend to DM at a better rate than 0.619.

 

[Duffa]

Casanova



To try and equate the total cost assume we took that $650 and used it to buy DM, buying them at their full cost would give you about 22,000 DM (44,000 if you wait for the 2-1 deal window to open again).

Those 22,000 DM would reduce the DM needed from Amex spend to 98,000 or $158,319 so the comparable costs would be:

*A = ($175 fees and charges + $650 spent on buying DM) + $158,319 Amex spend

QF = $825 fees and charges + 170,666 Amex spend

Love your work Stephen65! So clear and easy to understand, you must be an accountant. (said in a complimentary tone )
Don't tell me there is a way to convert MR into SPG and then AA-DM's? I'll hopefully discover that for myself before you reply.
Also is TG J class a fully flat bed out of MEL or SYD ? Last time I flew it was not

 

[bcworld]

Also is TG J class a fully flat bed out of MEL or SYD ? Last time I flew it was not

Angled lie-flats. I actually prefer the older model on the A346 (SYD) than the newer 777 (MEL) versions.

 

[Duffa]

- $1 = 1.5 Amex MR points (sometimes more if bonus partner spend)

- 1000 MR = 330 SPG

- 1 SPG = 1 US Airways Dividend Miles

Sorry, should have read your earlier posts!!

 

[Duffa]

Angled lie-flats. I actually prefer the older model on the A346 (SYD) than the newer 777 (MEL) versions.

Cheers. I'll try to go F then.

 

[bcworld]

Cheers. I'll try to go F then.

No F ex MEL so you'll have to go from SYD.

 

[Stephen65]

It seems the only way to get DM from CC spend in Australia is using Amex MR points and converting first to SPG points and then to DM. The difficulty is the poor MR:SPG conversion rate of 1000:330 which means that the overall conversion rate is $1 Amex spend = 0.619 DM. US and UK Amex cards convert at 1:1 from MR to SPG points so we are being badly done by here.

It occurs to me that there may well be a much more efficient way of converting Amex MR into *A award tickets - use SIA Krisflyer points instead.

Amex MR points convert at 1:1 to KF points and you can then use your KF points to book either SIA award flights or flights on *A partners like TG. SIA has a different table to US Air for redeeming *A awards:

http://www.singaporeair.com/pdf/ppsclub_krisflyer/charts/StarAlliance_RoundTrip.pdf

but its not that much different at least for J travel - on the US Airways table its 120K DM Australia/Europe in J, on the SIA table its 150K KF points. Otherwise I understand it works the same way as US Air *A awards - use ANA or Aeroplan to find availability and then ring SIA instead of US Airways to book your *A award ticket.

The great advantage of this is that because MR convert at 1:1 to KF points then $1 Amex spend = 1.5 KF points so 150K KF points is only $100,000 of Amex spend compared with the 194,000 I calculated upthread if you convert to DM.

I realise this is a little off-topic in this thread but what I am thinking is that while buying DM for cash during the specials is a very good deal, converting Amex MR to DM is not. If you have Amex MR points you are better converting to KF points if you want to redeem *A awards.

 

[Alanslegal]

With respect to AX MR -> SPG -> US DM

As stated correctly in Stephen65's post

1,000 MR -> 330 SPG

330 SPG -> 330 DM

However when you transfer SPG points to DM, make sure you transfer the points in blocks of 20,000 SPG points, because SPG will also add a 5K bonus on top of that!

See here .

 

[Stephen65]

According to the various websites this seems to be the relevant data:

- $1 = 1.5 Amex MR points (sometimes more if bonus partner spend)

- 1000 MR = 330 SPG

- 1 SPG = 1 US Airways Dividend Miles

- If you transfer 20,000 SPG it will be treated as if you were transferring 25,000

So the best rate is:

25,000 DM = 20,000 SPG = 60606 MR = $40404 spend

or

$1 spend on amex card = 0.619 dividend miles

Yes I assumed conversion in blocks of 20K SPG points so as to get the bonus 5K DM. That's how I figured $1 Amex spend = 0.619 DM.

 

[Alanslegal]

Yes I assumed conversion in blocks of 20K SPG points so as to get the bonus 5K DM. That's how I figured $1 Amex spend = 0.619 DM.

Legend.

I got lost within this thread over the last few weeks!

 

[Stephen65]

It's interesting to compare the US Air partner award and SIA partner award tables for the two most common destinations for Australians - Europe and North America

In the US Air table the cost for J/F in DM is:

Europe - 120/150
NA - 110/140

While on the SIA table the cost for J/F in KF points is:

Europe - 150/230
NA - 140/200

So SIA charges a higher premium for F over J. Notwithstanding that it still seems to be considerably cheaper if spending Amex MR points to go via KF points instead of DM e.g. F class to Europe:

SIA: 230K KF points = $153K Amex spend

US Air: 150K DM = $242K Amex spend