US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

[Duffa]

on the US Airways table its 120K DM Australia/Europe in J, on the SIA table its 150K KF points. Otherwise I understand it works the same way as US Air *A awards - use ANA or Aeroplan to find availability and then ring SIA instead of US Airways to book your *A award ticket.

The great advantage of this is that because MR convert at 1:1 to KF points then $1 Amex spend = 1.5 KF points so 150K KF points is only $100,000 of Amex spend compared with the 194,000 I calculated upthread if you convert to DM.

Any idea of taxes using SIA *A for LH or TG travelling Australia/Europe?
I just booked KF MEL - AMS return in J for 127,500 (including 15% on-line discount) but the taxes were close to $800.
By ringing I would have used 150,000 for TG or LH but don't know how much tax they would have charged.
Any ideas?
It's back to Stephen65's debate about points or taxes, isn't it?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Notwithstanding that it still seems to be considerably cheaper if spending Amex MR points to go via KF points instead of DM e.g. F class to Europe:

SIA: 230K KF points = $153K Amex spend

US Air: 150K DM = $242K Amex spend

Yes I always look at $ spent for flight redeemed, as just looking at points can misleading.

Redeeming with SQ is further enhanced if:

• You can book a Saver fare directly on SQ metal and gain the 15% discount
• Move points to SQ using one of the occasional transfer bonii (10%)
• Redeem an SQ flight with one of the regular but time and leg limited 50% specials (so far have been too tight for me).

 

[Flashback]

It's interesting to compare the US Air partner award and SIA partner award tables for the two most common destinations for Australians - Europe and North America

In the US Air table the cost for J/F in DM is:

Europe - 120/150
NA - 110/140

While on the SIA table the cost for J/F in KF points is:

Europe - 150/230
NA - 140/200

So SIA charges a higher premium for F over J. Notwithstanding that it still seems to be considerably cheaper if spending Amex MR points to go via KF points instead of DM e.g. F class to Europe:

SIA: 230K KF points = $153K Amex spend

US Air: 150K DM = $242K Amex spend

The main issue with SIA is their ridiculously high fuel surcharges.

 

[Stephen65]

Yes that is the unknown factor - taxes and charges seem pretty low when booking *A partner awards using US Air DM but I have no idea whether they would be the same or a different higher amount when booking the same flights using SIA KF points.

Flashware - do SIA apply fuel surcharges if you use KF points to book a *A award on a partner airline like TG?

 

[Flashback]

Yes that is the unknown factor - taxes and charges seem pretty low when booking *A partner awards using US Air DM but I have no idea whether they would be the same or a different higher amount when booking the same flights using SIA KF points.

Flashware - do SIA apply fuel surcharges if you use KF points to book a *A award on a partner airline like TG?

Charges are lower because the US based airlines tend not to charge fuel surcharges.

Not sure regarding your question as I've only ever flown SQ using SQ miles.

To put it into perspective though, I looked at FRA-JFK return in F (for 2, flying SQ) and the "charges" were much the same as just buying a fare in economy.....

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Yes that is the unknown factor - taxes and charges seem pretty low when booking *A partner awards using US Air DM but I have no idea whether they would be the same or a different higher amount when booking the same flights using SIA KF points.

Flashware - do SIA apply fuel surcharges if you use KF points to book a *A award on a partner airline like TG?

All up Europe return via SQ Awards is about $600 return. Which for me is still a better deal.

 

[Stephen65]

By SQ awards do you mean travelling on SIA or on a *A partner award?

 

[Flashback]

By SQ awards do you mean travelling on SIA or on a partner award?

I was referring to an SQ award flying on SQ.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

By SQ awards do you mean travelling on SIA or on a *A partner award?

Both.



It seems about the same...

Have so far redeemed with SQ, Thai , Egypt Air, and SAA.

Mind you the point cost for say Johannesburg to London in J on SAA is cheap.

 

[shane2603]

Hi Stephen,

Just saw your thoughts on Casanovas post and was wondering how you would go about converting Amex points to DMs. I am Cenurion Amex and have a generous bonus system but havent discovered how to move amex points to Dms?

 

[lmere12]

Any idea of taxes using SIA *A for LH or TG travelling Australia/Europe?
I just booked KF MEL - AMS return in J for 127,500 (including 15% on-line discount) but the taxes were close to $800.
By ringing I would have used 150,000 for TG or LH but don't know how much tax they would have charged.
Any ideas?
It's back to Stephen65's debate about points or taxes, isn't it?

I flew Bris to Milan this year, one way with with SIA and then a return on *A all up it cost me about $800 in taxes.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Ok..just looked up the exact amounts.

Looks like the $ dropping may have bumped it up for those booking now.


Final amounts below is what hits my amex card and so includes the Amex fee as well.

SQ Istanbul to MEL
[TABLE="class: sortable"]
[TR="class: tableStandardText"]
[TD="class: desc"]18 Aug SINGAPOREAIR TURKEY TURKEY 221,20 EUR
COMM.FEE 9.19
$Aust 315.64

[TABLE="class: sortable"]
[TR="class: tableStandardText"]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="class: desc"]*A redemption oin Thai. MEL-Paris

18 Aug SINGAPORE AIRLINES-ET (S$) SINGAPORE 449.80 SGD
COMM.FEE 10.72

$Aust 367.95
[/TD]
[TD="class: amountPadding"] [/TD]
[TD="class: amountPadding"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[/TD]
[TD="class: amountPadding"] [/TD]
[TD="class: amountPadding"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Stephen65]

Hi Stephen,

Just saw your thoughts on Casanovas post and was wondering how you would go about converting Amex points to DMs. I am Cenurion Amex and have a generous bonus system but havent discovered how to move amex points to Dms?

shane

What you do is join SPG (as a Centurion card holder I think you get SPG Plat status automatically if you apply but that doesn't affect the conversion rates). You can then convert your Amex points to SPG points and then your SPG points into a wide range of airline FF program points, including US Airways DM.

The problem is that the conversion rate isn't that great - each $1 spend only reaps you 0.619 DM and only then if you convert in batches of 20,000 SPG points.

 

[shane2603]

Excellent thanks Steven, hadnt even thought of that cheers

 

[shane2603]

In regards to Centurion we only get Gold SPG USCenturion gets Platinum)

 

[casanovawa]

Hmmm, well i started all this debate and i thought my comparisons were releatively clear but I guess Stephen65 did a good job of alternatively summarising it...

As i said i think DM *A comes out ahead of QF for long haul international travel, different for Oz domestic... Even with the total cough transfer rate from Amex to SPG to DM...

Krisflyer definitely sounds like it is a better option for transferring across points, but then if their taxes and charges equate to anything like QF's well then its back to same comparisons as with QF, and so it may need a more complicated destination/airline by destination/airline comparison to work out the best option between SQ and US Air...

Which means best to keep points in Amex until you are right ready to make the booking and then transfer to the best program... The falling aussie dollar () may also change some of these equations... But at least when the double bonus offers from US Air are available they still seem awfully tempting...

In all likelihood I will just stay with QFF coz of ease of use and availability of places to use and all, the inertia of staying with what you know is quite strong as opposed to going for something completely new, and its only one prgram that you need to keep track of as opposed to using Amex/SPG/DM that could all chop and change etc...

But if strictly working out what is the best program QFF seems as usual to lag behind...

 

[JohnK]

Yes I assumed conversion in blocks of 20K SPG points so as to get the bonus 5K DM. That's how I figured $1 Amex spend = 0.619 DM.

Only if you make the assumption that everyone has a Platinum card and earns 1.5 Amex MR points for every $1 spent.

Not such good conversion when only earning $1 Amex MR point per $1 spend....

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Only if you make the assumption that everyone has a Platinum card and earns 1.5 Amex MR points for every $1 spent.

Not such good conversion when only earning $1 Amex MR point per $1 spend....

Personally I would be disappointed in my average point earn on my Plat was anywhere near as low as 1.5.

Given the various bonii, promos and the like with a bit of strategy and discipline one can average an earn of several mutliples of that.

Last year would have averaged say about 6 points per $. Not sure I can keep up that pace in the next 12 months, but from what I can see will certainly be well above 3.

 

[Stephen65]

@JohnK

Yes I have assumed use of an Amex card that gives $1 = 1.5 MR with access to Ascent Premium.

Each of the four options for how to spend your MR points on J flights to Europe:

- use QFF points to fly QF classic awards and JASAs

- use DM to fly *A partner award

- use KF points to fly SQ awards

- use KF points to fly *A partner award

seems to have its pros and cons - different spend required, more or less easy to earn points on CC spend, seat availability and fees and charges - such that I think the only conclusion I can make is that its best to keep MR points as MR points until you know you want
to fly and then investigate each of the options.

Buying DM for $$ is still a great option particularly during the special offer periods its just a pity that unlike in the US there is no way to earn DM via CC spend at a good rate so as to supplement your DM balance.

@lovetravellingoz

Good point but alas for me at least 80% of my Amex spend is paying tax bills so I am always going to end up averaging very close to $1 = 1.5 MR no matter how many bonii I can reap on that last 20% spend.

 

[sr81]

We have tracked way OT and I would remind people that this is a discussion about Gifting and Buying US Airways Dividend Miles. Not how to get or procure miles via Amex MR. I would suggest to Mods that the last three pages or so would be better in a separate thread as the information is excellent and shouldn’t be lost in the last 100+ pages.

Also, when USAirways is selling miles why would you transfer at 0.619? Last time I bought miles I got them at 1.48 Aussie cents per mile! How does that stack up to $1:1 mile.:shock:

You talk about a spend of AUD200k+ for miles then you transfer them for such a poor rate? Look at moving AA as the don’t charge fuel fines and their redemption rates are pretty damn good (eg 45,000 miles + AUD70 for HKG-MEL in F).

Also, at KF 1:1 then the reduced spend required to gain the miles negates any benefit in fuel fines.

The benefit of US Airways is buying the burning miles in a hurry. You minimise your risk because you can place the itinerary on hold then buy the miles. The cash price is the benefit here – the DM program outside of the USA is pretty limited.