US Dividend Miles - Oneworld Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

[bcworld]

Yeah, I generally look at the lowest but with my routing I'm pretty sure I'm passing the limit on the MPM from EU-US-HK-AUS

EU to Aus via the US is not allowed.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

Edit: reread some of the other rules.

Thanks

Edit 2: Looks like JAL and BA haven't introduced BOS-HKG in their system as it keeps erroring out on me...

Just a couple questions
1. Has anyone ever seen 2 CX F released at the same time US-HKG?
2. if you're booking an award to US do they have more award availability compared to say QF/BA?
3. is If I'm going from MEL-BOS and I stopover in CDG, my onwards flight would be CDG-PHL-BOS, would this be considered backtracking?

 

[Alanslegal]

As we know we "build" sectors to create whole itineraries; I remember a while back someone posted that for eg. SYD-LHR QF1. When one searches SYD-LHR there is 0 award space but if we break up the flights to SYD-DXB and DXB-LHR there is now award space. So is it OK for me to build up the flights like that? If not, happy to stop in DXB for a few days (tick the box, been to another country etc) but meaning I'd have to flight out of LON and pay the premium APD.

 

[alieninperth]

I dont think you would be able to have a stopover in DXB, not a OW hub or a US destination. You may be able to transfer in DXB to BA or QR though, that might get you through to the final destination.

 

[ms1]

I dont think you would be able to have a stopover in DXB, not a OW hub or a US destination. You may be able to transfer in DXB to BA or QR though, that might get you through to the final destination.

Isn't DXB a QF hub?

 

[baggyred]

In about a month I plan on booking return flights to europe for myself and the wife. We each have enough points in our accounts for our flights.

When booking can the agent complete both bookings at once? (Given we will pay for each of our flights individually) Or do you have to build the first one - place it on hold and then build the second?

 

[bcworld]

In about a month I plan on booking return flights to europe for myself and the wife. We each have enough points in our accounts for our flights.

When booking can the agent complete both bookings at once? (Given we will pay for each of our flights individually) Or do you have to build the first one - place it on hold and then build the second?

They can reserve 2 seats and then spilt into 2 PNRs.

 

[baggyred]

They can reserve 2 seats and then spilt into 2 PNRs.

That sounds like the logical strategy - just wasn't sure given it sounds like it is rather manual

Thanks for responding so quickly

 

[Myrna]

As we know we "build" sectors to create whole itineraries; I remember a while back someone posted that for eg. SYD-LHR QF1. When one searches SYD-LHR there is 0 award space but if we break up the flights to SYD-DXB and DXB-LHR there is now award space. So is it OK for me to build up the flights like that? If not, happy to stop in DXB for a few days (tick the box, been to another country etc) but meaning I'd have to flight out of LON and pay the premium APD.

I found availability for LHR - SYD on BA and QF but US agent in London said not available for the whole sector, only from LHR to DXB. So after postings, I called US in the US and agent there said OK but kept saying coach available instead first, and gave me the wrong mileage cost. I put itin on hold, another agent got things correct. Yes, the taxes out of LHR are astronomical!

 

[anat0l]

As we know we "build" sectors to create whole itineraries; I remember a while back someone posted that for eg. SYD-LHR QF1. When one searches SYD-LHR there is 0 award space but if we break up the flights to SYD-DXB and DXB-LHR there is now award space. So is it OK for me to build up the flights like that? If not, happy to stop in DXB for a few days (tick the box, been to another country etc) but meaning I'd have to flight out of LON and pay the premium APD.

I dont think you would be able to have a stopover in DXB, not a OW hub or a US destination. You may be able to transfer in DXB to BA or QR though, that might get you through to the final destination.

I found availability for LHR - SYD on BA and QF but US agent in London said not available for the whole sector, only from LHR to DXB. So after postings, I called US in the US and agent there said OK but kept saying coach available instead first, and gave me the wrong mileage cost. I put itin on hold, another agent got things correct. Yes, the taxes out of LHR are astronomical!

I had a similar issue to Myrna when I was doing a recent search (in Business, but would likely apply as well if I searched for First). I tried to book QF10 LHR to MEL, but instead found the availability by splitting it at DXB. LHR-DXB in J was fine, but not DXB-MEL. I ended up holding the booking in Y for the DXB-MEL sector before ringing up again later and getting a different agent, who said the sector appeared to be booked in Business anyway! (Not sure if some agents are still a little "block headed" from the *A holdover, as Business award in *A was usually I, whereas in oneworld it is usually U - usually being the keyword here...) It was moot in the end as I had found, in the interim, a better routing to get home, so we checked and ticketed that combination.

One thing I was scared about was splitting the flight at DXB so there would be two QF10 flights on the itinerary. US's parent, AA, does not allow this on its award bookings, i.e. you cannot book the same flight number on consecutive flights, so in my case if it was an AAward, QF10 LHR-MEL must be sold as that, not LHR-DXB and DXB-MEL, and thus availability must exist on the marketed LHR-MEL. Similar for something like BA16 SYD-LHR (via SIN). (Note that AAgents may not pick this up immediately when putting the itinerary together, but later when they validate and attempt to ticket, it will fail). I'm not sure whether US has a similar restriction - the saving grace partially might be that the two sectors of QF10 start on different calendar days - but we never found out anyway. My backup plan (before I found a better one) was to try QF2 to DXB to connect to QF10 to MEL (a transit of about 18 hours).

The two big taxes travelling out of London are the UK Air Passenger Duty and the UK Passenger Service Charge. The former one is currently GBP 194 for Band D standard (e.g. London to Australia in Business or First Class), whilst the latter one is GBP 45 (or thereabouts). You can avoid the APD by transiting in London from an international port rather than starting a departure from it, however that said it would rely on finding a port which is close to where you want to be and that the costs of going from that port to London are cheaper than just starting in London and copping the APD. Keep in mind too that shorthaul BA and IB flights to LON to try and avoid the APD will need to account for the fuel surcharge payable; on a short sector, that could be about GBP 40. (You can try AB or AY instead).

Funny enough, next year starting from April 2015, the HMRC will abolish Bands C and D of the APD schedule, resulting in only two bands of APD and the same charge for the Band D flight as above will be GBP 142. I think this will be interesting because APD is collected as at time of booking but only paid when the passenger departs; my sample search of say QF10 on ITA next May doesn't show a reduction in APD mainly I think due to this reason.......

The UK Passenger Service Charge, however, can't be avoided as long as you pass through a UK airport, even in international transit. So the only way to completely avoid the GBP 45 PSC is to avoid the UK altogether.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

The UK Passenger Service Charge, however, can't be avoided as long as you pass through a UK airport, even in international transit. So the only way to completely avoid the GBP 45 PSC is to avoid the UK altogether.

Indeed. ADP and UK PSC sucks.

I found availability for LHR - SYD on BA and QF but US agent in London said not available for the whole sector, only from LHR to DXB. So after postings, I called US in the US and agent there said OK but kept saying coach available instead first, and gave me the wrong mileage cost. I put itin on hold, another agent got things correct. Yes, the taxes out of LHR are astronomical!

SYD-DXB-DOH-CDG ? Avoid LHR and get to try 2 different F suites!

 

[anat0l]

SYD-DXB-DOH-CDG ? Avoid LHR and get to try 2 different F suites!

Well that's one ingenious way to do it.

As long as most people are actually having their destination (i.e. their holiday, their conference etc.) in somewhere else besides London, it makes sense to try to get into that airport directly anyway and avoid London.

If the destination is supposed to be London, then there's not a lot good that can be done. As I said, you can transit to another nearby port instead, but you'd have to make it worth your while as avoiding the APD isn't altogether easy with the other offsets to consider.

Also worth noting that for those that may want to consider open jaws, flying into LHR but not departing from it avoids both the APD and PSC.

Finally, it's worth noting that not everywhere outside of the UK is necessarily cheap as chips (or pommes frites, if you will!) For example, I pulled this excerpt up on ITA for MEL-DXB-LHR,CDG-DOH-DXB-MEL:

French Aviation Civile Tax (FR) £6.20
French International Passenger Service Charge (QX) £22.60
French Airport Tax (FR) £10.10
French Air Passenger Solidarity Tax (IZ) £35.70

Then this one for Germany (FRA):

German Airport Security Tax (DE) £6.20
German Passenger Service Charge (RA) £25.80
German Air Transport Tax (OY) £33.50

At the end of the day, however, who still has the money and ability to front up the cash fare for a Business or First Class seat between Australia and Europe, even on sale? Thought so.

 

[Alanslegal]

One thing I was scared about was splitting the flight at DXB so there would be two QF10 flights on the itinerary. US's parent, AA, does not allow this on its award bookings, i.e. you cannot book the same flight number on consecutive flights, so in my case if it was an AAward, QF10 LHR-MEL must be sold as that, not LHR-DXB and DXB-MEL, and thus availability must exist on the marketed LHR-MEL. Similar for something like BA16 SYD-LHR (via SIN). (Note that AAgents may not pick this up immediately when putting the itinerary together, but later when they validate and attempt to ticket, it will fail). I'm not sure whether US has a similar restriction - the saving grace partially might be that the two sectors of QF10 start on different calendar days - but we never found out anyway. My backup plan (before I found a better one) was to try QF2 to DXB to connect to QF10 to MEL (a transit of about 18 hours).

Excellent point, that's the answer I was looking for. I see award availability on QF1 SYD-DXB + QF1 DXB-LHR but not on QF1 SYD-LHR, so I guess your post answer my comments. Thanks.

 

[romeobravo]

I've tried booking MUC-DOH-HKG-MNL-SYD (with no stopovers and all minimum connection times met) using DM. The agent says she can't book HKG-MNL-SYD because MNL isn't a partner hub. Is that right? A search on the BA Exec Club site for an award seat from HKG-SYD shows HKG-MNL-SYD as a valid option with availability, so I don't understand why US Airways is baulking at it.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[anat0l]

I've tried booking MUC-DOH-HKG-MNL-SYD (with no stopovers and all minimum connection times met) using DM. The agent says she can't book HKG-MNL-SYD because MNL isn't a partner hub. Is that right? A search on the BA Exec Club site for an award seat from HKG-SYD shows HKG-MNL-SYD as a valid option with availability, so I don't understand why US Airways is baulking at it.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

I'd try again. It's a bit of a wayward trot and I can't check for MPM right now. If you indeed say that all of the layovers are transits (so no stopovers, > 24 hrs), then technically I can't see anything wrong here. What is the timing like at MNL?

Note that just because BAEC spits out a routing doesn't mean it will ticket with US DM. BAEC is merely reporting on the award seat availability for that particular combination.

 

[Beta4Me]

Hello all. I'm usually pretty good on my own but this time I need some help. I'm trying to do a MEL-xx_-NYC-xx_-LHR/CDG-xx_-MEL trip next July for 2 pax in all F (or close to). I've got the LHR-DXB-MEL for the bit home found but I can't find a good routing with good availability for a mid-July 2015 depart from MEL to get to somewhere to head onto NYC. Could someone please lend a hand? Thanks

 

[_TheTraveller_]

How does one get from SYD-IPC on USDM? Via SCL? SCL-IPC is more elusive than bloody SYD-US in QF F!

 

[Limewood]

existing tickets won't be affected (how could they?)

gives you three months to select a JL flight and travel. The same restriction has been in place for domestic awards for a long time... looks like this is extending to international.

uh' that is so restrictive.

I found JAL award flights I wanted NRT to CDG but 10months out so no go it seems.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

Is there any issues for SYD-ICN/GMP-HND-HKG-MEL-SYD?

[KVS Availability Tool 7.4.2 - Reference: Maximum Permitted Mileage [MPM]: GMP-HND-HKG-MEL-SYD/US]

CTY   DC   TPM   cough   MPM  DC SUR  HGL   LWL   25M  XTRA       
SEL 3                                                           
TYO 3 EH   758   758   909  EH  0M   151     0  1136     0      
HKG 3 EH  1823  2581  [B]1554[/B]  EH [B]EXC[/B]     0   639  [B]1942[/B]     0      
MEL 3 EH  4614  7195  6628  EH 10M    95   236  8285     0      
SYD 3 EH   456  7651  6220  EH 25M   124   187  7775     0

Since HKG isn't a stopover, this shouldn't be a problem right? Another question, ICN/GMP and NRT/HND are co-terminals correct?

Also.. is there anywhere to validate JL availability to prevent phantom seats?

 

[anat0l]

uh' that is so restrictive.

I found JAL award flights I wanted NRT to CDG but 10months out so no go it seems.

Try it. I've done two bookings with JL flights on it that are greater than three months out, and both have ticketed. If US DM have to change the flight because it cancels then I'll raise hell or they'll have to change for free, because IMO they authorised the ticket. Maybe that's a poor excuse for my ignoring the condition, but hmmm.......

It seems like an odd restriction for JL, unless it is a US DM thing, because you can see JL on BAEC, for example (even domestic), and could book it if you wanted to.

Is there any issues for SYD-ICN/GMP-HND-HKG-MEL-SYD?

[KVS Availability Tool 7.4.2 - Reference: Maximum Permitted Mileage [MPM]: GMP-HND-HKG-MEL-SYD/US]

CTY   DC   TPM   cough   MPM  DC SUR  HGL   LWL   25M  XTRA       
SEL 3                                                           
TYO 3 EH   758   758   909  EH  0M   151     0  1136     0      
HKG 3 EH  1823  2581  [B]1554[/B]  EH [B]EXC[/B]     0   639  [B]1942[/B]     0      
MEL 3 EH  4614  7195  6628  EH 10M    95   236  8285     0      
SYD 3 EH   456  7651  6220  EH 25M   124   187  7775     0

Since HKG isn't a stopover, this shouldn't be a problem right? Another question, ICN/GMP and NRT/HND are co-terminals correct?

You've correctly identified the co-terminals.

I guess there shouldn't be any issue...I had a similar issue but in my case the MPM was exceeded at the stopover, so if there is no stopover then I suppose it should be OK. If you can line up a backup plan that would be a good idea.