US Dividend Miles - Oneworld Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

[Alanslegal]

Another newbie post; is KA (Dragonair) flights bookable? I see some KA BKI-HKG direct flights .... so it would make my trip easier rather than making my way to MNL then HKG then onto the USA.

 

[boomy]

Maybe HUACA? are looking for QF flights? I think it might be related with USDM not being updated or something...

Was looking for 2 seats on BA16 in F.

USDM can't even see JL aircraft changes.

Oh great I didn't even get to the JL bookings on my itinerary yet, I have a bad feeling about it now.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

Another newbie post; is KA (Dragonair) flights bookable? I see some KA BKI-HKG direct flights .... so it would make my trip easier rather than making my way to MNL then HKG then onto the USA.

KA is part of OW* so yes

*Affiliate

oneworld airline affiliates - oneworld

 

[anna2103]

I'm trying to book one sector SYD-SIN, can see availability on both BA and AA but the USDM agent can't see anything on their system.
Any chance the agent didn't check properly? Should I try HUACA or no point?

As I said last week, USDM avaibility in no way reflects BA/QF/AA/JL tools. The exception is when 3 or more reward seats are available (no shown is on BA website)

 

[boomy]

As I said last week, USDM avaibility in no way reflects BA/QF/AA/JL tools. The exception is when 3 or more reward seats are available (no shown is on BA website)

Any other tool out there which shows accurate availability for USDM bookings or just need to call every time and hope for the best?

 

[anat0l]

As I said last week, USDM avaibility in no way reflects BA/QF/AA/JL tools. The exception is when 3 or more reward seats are available (no shown is on BA website)

Now let's not get completely carried away here.

If there is an argument put forward that simply guessing (or taking a stab at) availability is just as good as using tools (or, in other words, tools completely misrepresent the US DM availability), I will profusely put forth that is false.

I have found the tools to be fairly reliable for most availability in oneworld except for noted exceptions. The only recent enigma is CX where JL tends to underreport and the others tend to overreport. I haven't come across a case where JL shows CX availability which you cannot get with US DM, though it is possible to get a CX seat which BA shows yet JL does not. And we well know that it is possible to not get a CX seat which BA shows (even plenty of), though JL will also show no availability.

AA and BA usually show the same availability for most long haul flights. I tend to find that AA very much underreports BA intra-Europe flight availability, but USDM can book what BA sees just fine. I have had no trouble getting sectors shown on BA whether there were 8 seats remaining or even just 1.

I haven't yet had an instance where AA has shown an option (e.g. on QF) but US DM cannot book it. So I can't confirm boomy's experience. I'd almost think that's worthy of HUACA - hell, HUACA is always worth a try, especially if you don't have another plan!

Whether there are small quirks in the availability, bottom line is that I haven't experienced so many inconsistencies as to believe that there is no point using the tools any more in planning US DM itineraries.

In addition, I missed your point last week about your experience with the tools; the only thing I commented on was that you were using the wrong tools to find availability which also gave you the wrong price for the award.

Any other tool out there which shows accurate availability for USDM bookings or just need to call every time and hope for the best?

The answer to your first question, I guess, is simply no.

Let's factor in a few more things here - there is also the agent dimension. From what I can surmise, agents are using a system where their search for availability is not unified. Essentially, they are pretty much using something similar to US's online system except they need to use cue cards to put the right codes to generate the correct availability for each airline. This somewhat explains some of the "instructions" on FT which people have been told to tell agents who are having some issues finding certain airlines' availability (e.g. open a new window, etc.). As someone else also had the same experience as me, with one agent, I had a sector which I found in Business which the agent could not see, so it was held in Economy. Get another agent not too long afterwards, and the seat which as just held in the class of service registered by the first agent was actually in Business!

Assuming that most AAgents will keep their jobs after the merger, when that time comes you can be more confident that AAgents know what they are doing in this regard and have a better idea of classes and destinations, plus award itineraries are priced by the computer, not the agent. Of course, that means you are less likely to be able to fool them or break the rules, an ironic point raised as one of the disadvantages when US DM ceases after the merger.

It is then quite possible that searching for availability on given airlines FF programmes will yield availability which only that programme's members can book. This is especially true if the availability is being displayed of the host airline. It is not common as such, but it can happen. This is one reason purported that searching for CX availability using CX tools (although free as well) was not the best idea.

If it is any consolation (not really), in the old *A arena, there were inconsistencies also noted amongst the popular *A tools used to find availability to feed to US DM agents: Awardtravlr, ANA and UA......

 

[boomy]

Well HUACA did the trick and availability on BA SYD-SIN was magically found
Now the new problem is they can't see any availability on JL NRT-SYD neither in J or F although JL website shows plenty of seats available on the day

 

[_TheTraveller_]

Well HUACA did the trick and availability on BA SYD-SIN was magically found
Now the new problem is they can't see any availability on JL NRT-SYD neither in J or F although JL website shows plenty of seats available on the day

JL NRT-SYD-NRT is a no show. I've called multiple times since Sunday and there's nothing! They're still showing it as a 772 aircraft instead of 77W. People have suggested that it could be JL block updates to US with the current USDM sale but who knows... I guess when we see the tools switch from 777/772 to 77W thats when we'll know we can book it.

 

[boomy]

JL NRT-SYD-NRT is a no show. I've called multiple times since Sunday and there's nothing! They're still showing it as a 772 aircraft instead of 77W. People have suggested that it could be JL block updates to US with the current USDM sale but who knows... I guess when we see the tools switch from 777/772 to 77W thats when we'll know we can book it.

Yea, I guessed that when the agent insisted JL don't even offer F to SYD.
Looks like my only option ATM is to book QF22 in J and pay the change fee if availability on JL771 in F opens later.

 

[anat0l]

Well HUACA did the trick and availability on BA SYD-SIN was magically found
Now the new problem is they can't see any availability on JL NRT-SYD neither in J or F although JL website shows plenty of seats available on the day

I think JL may show more availability for its flights on its own website compared to if you search using the BA tool, which is what I use to search for JL availability, and hasn't really failed yet.

AFAICT JL doesn't operate F-equipped aircraft to SYD, otherwise that would be a real boon! Of course, if they're intending to swap out some of their newer 77Ws into the SYD operation, fair enough.

 

[boomy]

AFAICT JL doesn't operate F-equipped aircraft to SYD, otherwise that would be a real boon! Of course, if they're intending to swap out some of their newer 77Ws into the SYD operation, fair enough.

JL will upgrade to 777-300ER and offer F to SYD between 28 December and 28 March.
It's a shame it can't be booked (yet) with USDM.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

JL will upgrade to 777-300ER and offer F to SYD between 28 December and 28 March.
It's a shame it can't be booked (yet) with USDM.

1/12-28/3*

but yeah it does suck. I called this morning to see if there was any chance. Still nuffin boomy!

 

[boomy]

but yeah it does suck. I called this morning to see if there was any chance. Still nuffin boomy!

As long as they will open it at some point... Still worth $150 for an upgrade to F

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As long as they will open it at some point... Still worth $150 for an upgrade to F

bearing in mind USDM now pretty much insists on cancelling an itinerary to rebook a sector in a higher class. This applies even if the original ticket is in F and you have elected to fly in a lower class at the time of ticketing. In many cases cancelling a whole ticket is going to be problematic - especially if your itinerary includes JL or CX sectors. Both of whom allow their own members to waitlist for awards.

 

[casanovawa]

Sounds like a pretty good former program has been screwed up with the swap...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Sounds like a pretty good former program has been screwed up with the swap...

on the flip side, agents are now pretty happy for you to feed them your itinerary (I guess with the assurance the computer or rates desk will not allow it if it breaks too many rules).

when it was a member of star there were plenty of agents who didn't want to 'play ball' with routings you'd found yourself... preferring to spend forever searching through whatever weird system they had.

 

[boomy]

bearing in mind USDM now pretty much insists on cancelling an itinerary to rebook a sector in a higher class. This applies even if the original ticket is in F and you have elected to fly in a lower class at the time of ticketing. In many cases cancelling a whole ticket is going to be problematic - especially if your itinerary includes JL or CX sectors. Both of whom allow their own members to waitlist for awards.

Bugger! I have some CX sectors

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Bugger! I have some CX sectors

you can try for the upgrade, even HUACA. But it has become increasingly difficult (impossible?) to find an agent to do it without cancelling everything.

 

[boomy]

on the flip side, agents are now pretty happy for you to feed them your itinerary (I guess with the assurance the computer or rates desk will not allow it if it breaks too many rules).

when it was a member of star there were plenty of agents who didn't want to 'play ball' with routings you'd found yourself... preferring to spend forever searching through whatever weird system they had.

Depends how you look at it, in the *A days the agent will often ticket the itinerary without checking with the rates desk, now it seems they become more strict about it.
It's still hard to argue with them about the rules, even when they are clearly in the wrong, instead of simply checking the rule book they just become defensive.
After talking to some US agents I also called AS and the service there is completely different. Agents are so nice and attentive, they actually listen to the customer!

 

[romeobravo]

Okay, so I originally booked a one way flight from SYD-LHR, with SYD-NRT in QF J and HND-LHR in JL F. I was assured by the agent that, when I was ready, I could add the return sector without them having to cancel the original booking and redeposit the miles into my account (and just pay the $150 change fee).

Several phone calls later, some lasting 90 minutes, and each agent saying something different and finding something else wrong with the booking, they did end up cancelling my original bookings and rebooking, and I've ended up with:

SYD-NRT QF J
NRT-LHR BA J
MUC-DOH-NRT QR J
NRT-SYD JL J

Which is fine, I guess, except that because of BA's involvement taxes are now $500 (but they waived the change fee). But I really wanted to try JL F. The first few agents never raised the mixed J/F outbound sector as a problem, but the last one did. She said it should never have been ticketed. She said JL would've denied me boarding (which I doubt).

So, my question is, is it possible to mix J and F within an outbound or inbound sector? (She said it would've been okay to have J outbound and F inbound, or vice versa, but not mixing classes within the outbound or inbound trip - I just don't believe her, especially since another agent offered to mix J and Y on my inbound sector a few days earlier, when I was trying to route the return trip via HKG).

I'm not planning to call back and change anything now, since I've got the ultimate destination and dates I want, and J all the way is pretty good. But it'd be useful to know for the future.