US Dividend Miles - Oneworld Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

[MEL_Traveller]

Okay, so I originally booked a one way flight from SYD-LHR, with SYD-NRT in QF J and HND-LHR in JL F. I was assured by the agent that, when I was ready, I could add the return sector without them having to cancel the original booking and redeposit the miles into my account (and just pay the $150 change fee).

Several phone calls later, some lasting 90 minutes, and each agent saying something different and finding something else wrong with the booking, they did end up cancelling my original bookings and rebooking, and I've ended up with:

SYD-NRT QF J
NRT-LHR BA J
MUC-DOH-NRT QR J
NRT-SYD JL J

Which is fine, I guess, except that because of BA's involvement taxes are now $500 (but they waived the change fee). But I really wanted to try JL F. The first few agents never raised the mixed J/F outbound sector as a problem, but the last one did. She said it should never have been ticketed. She said JL would've denied me boarding (which I doubt).

So, my question is, is it possible to mix J and F within an outbound or inbound sector? (She said it would've been okay to have J outbound and F inbound, or vice versa, but not mixing classes within the outbound or inbound trip - I just don't believe her, especially since another agent offered to mix J and Y on my inbound sector a few days earlier, when I was trying to route the return trip via HKG).

I'm not planning to call back and change anything now, since I've got the ultimate destination and dates I want, and J all the way is pretty good. But it'd be useful to know for the future.

It is entirely possible to mix classes on an itinerary - you will be charged the highest applicable class.

As you unfortunately found out, it is better to book a return itinerary (dummy date for the return) and then invoke the change procedure, rather than try and add a return at a later date.

 

[romeobravo]

It is entirely possible to mix classes on an itinerary - you will be charged the highest applicable class.

As you unfortunately found out, it is better to book a return itinerary (dummy date for the return) and then invoke the change procedure, rather than try and add a return at a later date.

Yep, lesson learned. But the other problem with my original booking was that I had been undercharged in terms of miles. It really was a complete dog's breakfast. All the agents were nice enough, but they collectively don't have a clue (or at least, a consistent clue).

 

[_TheTraveller_]

There's this rule where you can keep your seats on hold for longer than 3 days. Eg: If the seats you wanted for your outbound were released on the 330 and you wanted to fly back 2-3 weeks later, you may be able to ask the agent to hold it for that long for you. There are data points on FT but YMMV.

Also, on the front of JL there's some movement. KVS timetabling has now changed the date to EQV (Variable Aircraft) while expertflyer has started to show no F availability at all (which wasn't the case this morning). So something is definitely changing in the background... at this point I don't really have much hope on getting JL F with USDM.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There's this rule where you can keep your seats on hold for longer than 3 days. Eg: If the seats you wanted for your outbound were released on the 330 and you wanted to fly back 2-3 weeks later, you may be able to ask the agent to hold it for that long for you. There are data points on FT but YMMV.

i haven't seen any data points yet for holds longer than three days... do you have a link by chance?

the problem is not so much a USDM hold, but rather the operating airline. they can (and often do) cancel a reservation after 72 hours. I'm not sure of the workaround USDM has to manage that? is that in the information you have read? I wouldn't even leave bookings on hold for three days... too risky.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

i haven't seen any data points yet for holds longer than three days... do you have a link by chance?

the problem is not so much a USDM hold, but rather the operating airline. they can (and often do) cancel a reservation after 72 hours. I'm not sure of the workaround USDM has to manage that? is that in the information you have read? I wouldn't even leave bookings on hold for three days... too risky.

Ah yeah operating airlines, totally forgot about that. I've linked the part I've read. Its in the wiki of the OW award thread within the USDM forum.

• All : If you are booking outbound flights at the US Air 335 day window US Air will often allow you to put your reservation on a longer than 3 day hold to capture the return seats once they open up at T+335. There is a report of this for 30 days here, and FT user beofotch was successful in getting a 13 day hold here. Workaround: Huaca until you get an agent who is competent enough to do this. It may help to act naive and ask for your return flight on your preferred date even if it is after T+335 days. Once they get an error from the computer may be a good time to bring it up.

 

[anat0l]

i haven't seen any data points yet for holds longer than three days... do you have a link by chance?

the problem is not so much a USDM hold, but rather the operating airline. they can (and often do) cancel a reservation after 72 hours. I'm not sure of the workaround USDM has to manage that? is that in the information you have read? I wouldn't even leave bookings on hold for three days... too risky.

Agreed. In *A previously, on some itineraries holds were not permitted due to certain carriers' flights being included, so immediate ticketing was necessary or the seats were let go.

Unsure about in ow but so far it seems all allow holds, though certainly not longer than 72 hours. A hold could be extended beyond 72 hours but it would require agent intervention AFAICT because the holds broadly are system handled, i.e. after 72 hours they autocancel.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Ah yeah operating airlines, totally forgot about that. I've linked the part I've read. Its in the wiki of the OW award thread within the USDM forum.

Thanks for the links.

The first link (Frugal Travel Guy) is in relation to US Air metal - suggested by the talk of 'low' award price. This doesn't apply to partner airlines.

The second link gives some merit for consideration - but as he says - there is potential the reservation may get cancelled, so he is going to monitor them closely.

If you have a dream itinerary, I'd likely book the return and pay the change fee.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

Oneworld Award Bookings Using US Dividend Miles [Master FAQ and Help Thread] - Page 115 - FlyerTalk Forums

Looks like it worked out for him.

If I'm booking T-335, how do I end up booking the dummy return ?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Oneworld Award Bookings Using US Dividend Miles [Master FAQ and Help Thread] - Page 115 - FlyerTalk Forums

Looks like it worked out for him.

If I'm booking T-335, how do I end up booking the dummy return ?

It does seem it worked, but it also seems an isolated instance. Certainly worth trying, but multiple calls I'm not so sure (plus the potential for it to cancel anyway). $150 is fairly cheap insurance for your flights. (And your sanity in multiple calls to USDM if necessary)

Dummy return - just book it for the first date you can within the permitted period. Then change once your preferred flights open up at the 335 day window.

 

[anat0l]

If they regularly start allowing holds of greater than 72 hours that will be a real riot.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If they regularly start allowing holds of greater than 72 hours that will be a real riot.

Somewhat unfair to others who want to book as well.

 

[Wozz]

Hello all the USDM gurus

First time USDM user here and I am thinking of taking advantage of the 100% promo. I am hoping to get some thoughts from all the experts before I take the plunge.

I need to get to TPE from SYD and want to do a stopover in HKG on the way back to SYD. I understand that for USDM you can either have 1 stopover or 1 open jaw, therefore I thought I will make TPE my destination and HKG as the stopover on the return leg to SYD:

SYD - NRT (overnight but less than 24hr connection), HND - HKG - TPE / TPE - HKG (stopover for 10 days) - NRT(or HND) - SYD

Is this possible? I am hoping to fly F/J with JL/CX on all the legs

The other question I have is could I ring the USDM agents to check for availability before I buy the miles I need? I have done my homework (on KVS) for the dates I need and they are showing some availability, but I want to be 100% before I buy the miles! How long does it usually take for the miles to appear in your account?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hello all the USDM gurus

First time USDM user here and I am thinking of taking advantage of the 100% promo. I am hoping to get some thoughts from all the experts before I take the plunge.

I need to get to TPE from SYD and want to do a stopover in HKG on the way back to SYD. I understand that for USDM you can either have 1 stopover or 1 open jaw, therefore I thought I will make TPE my destination and HKG as the stopover on the return leg to SYD:

SYD - NRT (overnight but less than 24hr connection), HND - HKG - TPE / TPE - HKG (stopover for 10 days) - NRT(or HND) - SYD

Is this possible? I am hoping to fly F/J with JL/CX on all the legs

The other question I have is could I ring the USDM agents to check for availability before I buy the miles I need? I have done my homework (on KVS) for the dates I need and they are showing some availability, but I want to be 100% before I buy the miles! How long does it usually take for the miles to appear in your account?

you can call USDM and even make a booking without miles. While the booking is on hhold, purchase the miles and then ticket.

I doubt your itinerary will be valid as it transits through HKG and Tokyo multiple times on the way to TPE and back. This may be considered a separate round-trip within an existing itinerary.

CX flies Tokyo-TPE non-stop as well as HKG-TPE. An itinerary SYD-NRT-TPE-HKG-SYD should be ok if you need tokyo in the itinerary. Otherwise a simple SYD-HKG-TPE-HKG-SYD would be allowed no problems.

 

[Wozz]

you can call USDM and even make a booking without miles. While the booking is on hhold, purchase the miles and then ticket.

I doubt your itinerary will be valid as it transits through HKG and Tokyo multiple times on the way to TPE and back. This may be considered a separate round-trip within an existing itinerary.

CX flies Tokyo-TPE non-stop as well as HKG-TPE. An itinerary SYD-NRT-TPE-HKG-SYD should be ok if you need tokyo in the itinerary. Otherwise a simple SYD-HKG-TPE-HKG-SYD would be allowed no problems.

I find it very hard to get any premium award seats for the SYD-HKG-SYD on CX/QF hence why I thought of flying through NRT. Also that gives me a chance to try both JL/CX F product!

Didn't know that you are not allow to transit through the same cities on your way back - looks like back to drawing board again..

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I find it very hard to get any premium award seats for the SYD-HKG-SYD on CX/QF hence why I thought of flying through NRT. Also that gives me a chance to try both JL/CX F product!

Didn't know that you are not allow to transit through the same cities on your way back - looks like back to drawing board again..

good luck trying to get JL. There have been lots of reported problems (mostly I think with USDM agents trying to work out the 60 and 90 day rules, plus having to open another screen to make the booking).

Routing to TPE via NRT/HKG is going to be either very close or exceeding MPM in any event.

SYD-NRT-TPE-HKG-SYD though is fine and pretty close to your original itinerary.

 

[anat0l]

I find it very hard to get any premium award seats for the SYD-HKG-SYD on CX/QF hence why I thought of flying through NRT. Also that gives me a chance to try both JL/CX F product!

Didn't know that you are not allow to transit through the same cities on your way back - looks like back to drawing board again..

I don't think there's any strict rule about not being able to transit the same cities on your way back as you did on the way there - that would make some routings very restrictive if so. For example, an itinerary I booked recently transits through HKG twice - once on the way to my destination, and once on the way back to origin point.

What can look a bit suspicious is transiting through with a stopover that doesn't look en route, e.g. SYD-HKG-NRT (stopover)-HKG-LHR- etc....but that's mainly my guess because stopovers are meant to be en route.

Your itinerary might come across as odd mainly due to the flying to Tokyo when it is not a stopover or destination (yet it is much further away compared to either of HKG or TPE), which may not be such a big deal except that there are so many other airline options which give a more direct route (maybe not at the F level and certainly not as good necessarily, but so be it...). If it doesn't arouse suspicions in the shape of the routing, it just might blow the MPM. When I put SYD-NRT-HKG-TPE into ExpertFlyer, it says that the coughulative mileage to TPE exceeds the MPM to TPE, even the 25M level.

Still, I always say, give it a go, as at least you'll find out for yourself.

 

[Wozz]

Thanks for the explanation - that all make sense.

Now I just need to find award seats for HKG-SYD. Might just have to fly with MH via KUL if nothin pops up for QF/CX

 

[anat0l]

Thanks for the explanation - that all make sense.

Now I just need to find award seats for HKG-SYD. Might just have to fly with MH via KUL if nothin pops up for QF/CX

Depending on your timing and season, don't forget to check routings like HKG-MEL-SYD, HKG-BNE-SYD, HKG-CNS-SYD, HKG-ADL-SYD or HKG-PER-SYD. They will lengthen your itinerary, and all no necessarily ideal, but hopefully not enough to exceed the MPM and gives you some alternatives.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't think there's any strict rule about not being able to transit the same cities on your way back as you did on the way there - that would make some routings very restrictive if so. For example, an itinerary I booked recently transits through HKG twice - once on the way to my destination, and once on the way back to origin point.

there is a distinction between transiting a city twice (which is fine) compared to the original itinerary was proposing what is in essence a side-trip HKG-TPE-HKG.

 

[Beta4Me]

Could anyone please give me a hand with finding availability mid-July 2015 for MEL to LHR/CDG in F (or, if necessary, J)? I can find early August and late June for F, but July seems empty. Thanks!