Velocity Points Expired - no warning! [In contravention of T&C's]

[Lemon_Party]

I have to ask. A Transaction is still a transaction, even if the benefits are pooled away to another account ... right?

ie. A flight is taken but the points and SCs are pooled off to another account. The person who took the flight has account activity, whereas the person who benefited from the pool does not. That's correct, isn't it?

This is what I'm unclear on. Partner pools everything to me. Do our accounts need to be unlinked and a BP purchase or similar made, then delink accounts every so often? We are both active, but her account is permanently at zero... Sure this is a common situation...

 

[Bolthead]

This is what I'm unclear on. Partner pools everything to me. Do our accounts need to be unlinked and a BP purchase or similar made, then delink accounts every so often? We are both active, but her account is permanently at zero... Sure this is a common situation...

Not sure if it is common however it won't matter. If your partner is always at zero then you don't have to worry about anything. (They won't loose any expired points as they won't have any.) Assuming you are still actively adding your own Velocity points to your account this will keep your points active. If you are not adding Velocity points to your account then you are better off adding BP points to keep your account active.

 

[Velocity Frequent Flyer]

Hi drron,

On 1 March 2016 Velocity announced changes to points expiry that came into effect on 1 June 2016. These were the first changes that have been made to points expiry since they were introduced to the program more than 5 years ago.

The change being that Velocity Points would expire in two years (24 months) rather than three years (36 months) if there was no activity within a member account. This means Velocity offers the longest time of any other frequent flyer program in Australia to use your points.

Transferring Points between family members or receiving Points from a family pooling relationship would no longer be considered eligible activity to prevent points expiry. Points would not expire provided the member earns or redeems Points once every 24 months. ‘Anat0l’ has correctly confirmed, a purchase of a bottle of water at a BP store would stop your points from expiring.

Any Points earned from eligible activity prior to 1 June 2016 are not affected by this change and will not expire for 36 months. Velocity proactively informed members of this change via the email address within their account, and also posted this update on the AFF forum as well as the Program Updates section on the Velocity website (https://www.velocityfrequentflyer.com/content/ProgramBenefits/LatestNews/program-updates-022016/). The change was also published in The Age, Sydney Morning Herald, The Canberra Times and AusBT. Members were given at least 30 days notification allowing ample time to earn or use Points to keep accounts active.

Despite these changes:

• It is now easier than ever to remain active by earning Points across a broad range of partners including airlines, credit cards, fuel and shopping. In the past year alone we have welcomed some major partners including BP, HSBC, Le Club AccorHotelsand FlyBuys.
• We continue to provide you with more time than any other Australian frequent flyer program to keep your Points active.

Regards
The Velocity Team

 

[mannej]

Spin aside, why weren't the changes advertised in a newspaper from each state? What if Drron isn't from either NSW, ACT or VIC?

 

[drron]

Sorry Velocity frequent Flyer but you have not come close to answering my problem.As far as I am aware you are the only FF program to retrospectively change the definition of eligible activity so in my mind that takes you from the top to the bottom.
When you published the changes in the Australian papers we were in Japan-so surprisingly we didn't see those ads.
second no email was received by my wife telling her of the 30 days to have activity-unlike me she doesn't clear her emails for some months.
Having taken the accumulated points with activity up until Feb this year we have absolutely no incentive to ever use virgin again.At nearly 70 it just doesn't make sense to start over again.

My feelings are summed up in a post I made in the loyalty thread this morning-

Of course another way the airlines make a profit is by points expiring.But there are ways of doing it so not to upset your loyal customers.
As most are aware I have a problem with velocity.i am sure they are going to be stubborn.what they don't count on is me being stubborn.
next year is almost certainly going to be mrsdrron's last year as QF WP.She will make LTG in 2017/18.
We will be reducing the amount of travel after the next 2-3 years and using points for a lot.So our airline travel is starting to be more spread.Next year as well as the OW airlines we will be flying SQ,TG,SAA and HA and possibly more in the mix at the end of the year depending on award availability.VA were going to be part of the mix but as our points have disappeared there is no longer any point(pun intended) to show them any loyalty.I am even switching my Amex "free" flights to hotel stays.

Your post has actually had the reverse effect to that which I hope you were trying to convey.

 

[CJEMNMAC]

Hi drron,

On 1 March 2016 Velocity announced changes to points expiry that came into effect on 1 June 2016. These were the first changes that have been made to points expiry since they were introduced to the program more than 5 years ago.

The change being that Velocity Points would expire in two years (24 months) rather than three years (36 months) if there was no activity within a member account. This means Velocity offers the longest time of any other frequent flyer program in Australia to use your points.

Transferring Points between family members or receiving Points from a family pooling relationship would no longer be considered eligible activity to prevent points expiry. Points would not expire provided the member earns or redeems Points once every 24 months. ‘Anat0l’ has correctly confirmed, a purchase of a bottle of water at a BP store would stop your points from expiring.

Any Points earned from eligible activity prior to 1 June 2016 are not affected by this change and will not expire for 36 months. Velocity proactively informed members of this change via the email address within their account, and also posted this update on the AFF forum as well as the Program Updates section on the Velocity website (https://www.velocityfrequentflyer.com/content/ProgramBenefits/LatestNews/program-updates-022016/). The change was also published in The Age, Sydney Morning Herald, The Canberra Times and AusBT. Members were given at least 30 days notification allowing ample time to earn or use Points to keep accounts active.

Despite these changes:

• It is now easier than ever to remain active by earning Points across a broad range of partners including airlines, credit cards, fuel and shopping. In the past year alone we have welcomed some major partners including BP, HSBC, Le Club AccorHotelsand FlyBuys.
• We continue to provide you with more time than any other Australian frequent flyer program to keep your Points active.

Regards
The Velocity Team

The constant scripted responses from corporates in reply to customer queries / complaints annoy the S$%$#@# out of me.

I understand it is the standard dribble but in this case, the issue is expiring points NOT whether VA have "more time than any other Australian frequent flyer program to keep your Points active." ( mentioned twice in the reply )

I mean really. Show some focus, listen to the customer, understand the customer, try and assist the customer, work with the customer and who knows, you may even "save" a customer..

 

[Deleted member 29185]

The constant scripted responses from corporates in reply to customer queries / complaints annoy the S$%$#@# out of me.

Yes, from what looked like at the outset to be a fairly in depth post in response to drron's predicament is actually a shallow meaningless post which could have been replaced with "too bad, how sad". VFF used to at least look at the circumstances of the complaint.

VFF has from time to time been able to step in in particular cases with VA/VFF failings/obstinacy and I think this post adequately conveys that he/she has had their hands tied as well (or simply couldn't care less).

 

[opusman]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

Jack at Velocity said it wouldn't be fair on all other Velocity members to reinstate points.

It could be completely and utterly fair, all they'd have to do is do that for everyone.

Give all members one chance to reclaim expired points. A simple policy that would go along way to maintaining a relationship with their customers.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Announced retrospective changes to the definition of 'qualifying activity' in April 2016, to go live in July 2016.

What the OP is saying is that he believes there was activity within July 2013 - July 2016, which satisfies the previous 36-month criteria. The OP had a paid VA flight in Jan 2016 - which by any reasonable account - would be qualifying activity.

In April 2016 - Velocity changed their definition of what constituted as 'qualifying activity' for a July 2016 implementation. By Velocitys own admission, this means anyone who had qualifying activity between July 2013 - June 2014 (and no further activity since) would lose their *entire* Velocity points balance come July 2016.

What Velocity is trying to claim is that ~3 months somehow counts as reasonable notice that the entire Velocity account balance would expire. This is a far cry from 24 months (let alone the 36 months under which the activity qualified), and using Velocitys own logic - this would make Velocity the worst loyalty program in the country by points expiration. Essentially the OP had their points expire 6 months after earning them.

Now, even if three months notice was fair (which it's not), Velocity did not at any point tell the OP the points would expire. There is no explicit wording which could imply or directly inform the member. The only communication was to the effect of 'The definition of qualifying activity is changing.'

What should have taken place is Velocity immediately quarantined points earned before July 2016 which have been attached to an account with what was considered qualifying activity on or before June 30, 2016. This would have provided ~12 months for inactive accounts to catch up to the new 24-month policy.

Furthermore, the OP did take reasonable measures to ensure account activity - by booking a flight! They didn't go to BP and buy a bottle of water - but instead, booked a Velocity flight which is worth more in revenue. This holds, even more, significance because the OP has elite status with Oneworld, so a flight on VA is going out of their way and would have provided VA a crucial opportunity to change the OPs loyalty behavior.

To me, it looks like an IT issue which didn't account for previously okay qualifying activity when the changeover was taking place.

Velocity rep - you need to have someone go through this in detail, call the OP and have an open two-way conversation.
Because as it stands right now, my interpretation is that Velocity has effectively stolen the points.

 

[RooFlyer]

I've just caught up with this thread and have become more and more amazed, and alarmed at Virgin's behaviour. But amazement and alarm turned to incredulity when I read the Virgin rep's post.

I AM a frequent flyer and often fly Virgin, in spite of having b-all status with them and being Plat in Qantas.

However, I also believe in being pro-active with my spend to make a point and will make it my mission to deprive Virgin of at least as much cash revenue as they have clawed back by pinching mrs.drron's points.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

have become more and more amazed, and alarmed at Virgin's behaviour. But amazement and alarm turned to incredulity when I read the Virgin rep's post.

I'm thinking they have no choice. Direction from above ... Pillage as much low hanging fruit as we can lay our unconscionable mitts on. Have to pay for poor executive decisions somehow!

 

[Jacques Vert]

I have to say that I am not surprised by Virgin's actions and their pathetic post above.

They may argue that they are now a full service airline but they still think like a LCC.

No wonder they continue to loose money.

 

[Major]

I have been a loyal VA customer for a long time. It is several years since I have been on a Qantas flight. However VA and Velocity's decisions of late will be a game changer for me. my flights for the remainder of the year are locked in and I will retain Gold for next year.

There is no way I will now re qualify after that. QF will see me return to the fold for some flights.

Attention Velocity : You can fix this situation now with a bit of common sense and good old customer service.

"This is not over...I am watching you"

 

[blackcat20]

Announced retrospective changes to the definition of 'qualifying activity' in April 2016, to go live in July 2016.

What the OP is saying is that he believes there was activity within July 2013 - July 2016, which satisfies the previous 36-month criteria. The OP had a paid VA flight in Jan 2016 - which by any reasonable account - would be qualifying activity.

In April 2016 - Velocity changed their definition of what constituted as 'qualifying activity' for a July 2016 implementation. By Velocitys own admission, this means anyone who had qualifying activity between July 2013 - June 2014 (and no further activity since) would lose their *entire* Velocity points balance come July 2016.

What Velocity is trying to claim is that ~3 months somehow counts as reasonable notice that the entire Velocity account balance would expire. This is a far cry from 24 months (let alone the 36 months under which the activity qualified), and using Velocitys own logic - this would make Velocity the worst loyalty program in the country by points expiration. Essentially the OP had their points expire 6 months after earning them.

Now, even if three months notice was fair (which it's not), Velocity did not at any point tell the OP the points would expire. There is no explicit wording which could imply or directly inform the member. The only communication was to the effect of 'The definition of qualifying activity is changing.'

What should have taken place is Velocity immediately quarantined points earned before July 2016 which have been attached to an account with what was considered qualifying activity on or before June 30, 2016. This would have provided ~12 months for inactive accounts to catch up to the new 24-month policy.

Furthermore, the OP did take reasonable measures to ensure account activity - by booking a flight! They didn't go to BP and buy a bottle of water - but instead, booked a Velocity flight which is worth more in revenue. This holds, even more, significance because the OP has elite status with Oneworld, so a flight on VA is going out of their way and would have provided VA a crucial opportunity to change the OPs loyalty behavior.

To me, it looks like an IT issue which didn't account for previously okay qualifying activity when the changeover was taking place.

Velocity rep - you need to have someone go through this in detail, call the OP and have an open two-way conversation.
Because as it stands right now, my interpretation is that Velocity has effectively stolen the points.

You've hit the nail on the head. Theyre starting to sound like an airline desperate to save some $$, even if that means expiring people's points against their Ts and Cs....

 

[Abdul_A350]

Any Points earned from eligible activity prior to 1 June 2016 are not affected by this change and will not expire for 36 months.

As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the definition of "eligible activity prior to 1 June 2016" was also changed. At the very least you should have said that any point in existence as of 1 March 2016 would not expire for two years (while apologizing for having shortened their lifespan). Making retrospective changes like this is quite frankly ridiculous. Someone who did a family transfer on 28 February 2016 was quite entitled to expect that their points would not expire for three years.

But fortunately you still have an opportunity to do the right thing here.

 

[Quickstatus]

Am I missing something

The Velocity rep said that activity before 1 June 2016 still had 36 month lifespan. So no points would be lost from activity dated prior to 1 July 2013 so long as there was qualifying activity within the 36 month period 1 July 2013 to 30 June 2016?

But they also changed the definition of qualifying activity to retrospectively include periods before 1 July 2016. Which means that although the 36 month lifespan exists for periods prior to 1 July 2016, the change in definition of qualifying activity captures those affected accounts.

Now thats very sneaky!. Very Sneaky Velocity Rep!. interesting how the Velocity Rep did not address specifically that the change in qualifying activity definition affected activity prior to 1 July 2016

Hi drron,

On 1 March 2016 Velocity announced changes to points expiry that came into effect on 1 June 2016. These were the first changes that have been made to points expiry since they were introduced to the program more than 5 years ago.

The change being that Velocity Points would expire in two years (24 months) rather than three years (36 months) if there was no activity within a member account. This means Velocity offers the longest time of any other frequent flyer program in Australia to use your points.

Transferring Points between family members or receiving Points from a family pooling relationship would no longer be considered eligible activity to prevent points expiry. Points would not expire provided the member earns or redeems Points once every 24 months. ‘Anat0l’ has correctly confirmed, a purchase of a bottle of water at a BP store would stop your points from expiring.

Any Points earned from eligible activity prior to 1 June 2016 are not affected by this change and will not expire for 36 months.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Now thats very sneaky!. Very Sneaky Velocity Rep!. interesting how the Velocity Rep did not address specifically that the change in qualifying activity definition affected activity prior to 1 July 2016

That's why I used the term unconscionable in my post above. Many, many people would fail to pick that up with the spin put on the announcements and the pathetic attempts to justify VA/VFFs position and I'm guessing mrsdrron is likely one of many. In fact I'm thinking many would be oblivious at this moment, that their points are even gone or in imminent threat!

 

[Quickstatus]

Velocity,
You should have said:
"There is a change in the definition of "qualifying activity".

From 1 xx_ 201X, qualifying activity does not include points transfers or activity from family pooling. Buying a bottle of water from BP is a qualifying activity.
Thos change will affect all points currently accumulated in Velocity accounts which will be lost if if there has been no (new definition) qualifying activity within the last 36 months if points are prior to 1 June 2016.

Points accumulated after 1 July 2016 will have a lifespan of 2 years if there has not been qualifying activity within that 2 year period."

Hey Velocity : sending an email does not mean the communication has been received!!!.

 

[nlagalle]

At least when QF changed their expiry from 36 months to 18, the points earned prior to the change date stayed at 3 years (including a not on the webpage of your account to say so).

VA on the other hand have either incompetent IT (ok thats a given) or they wanted people's points to expire. Either way its P1ss poor form from them, but given whats happened their lately I am hardly surprised. I am glad my flying is now solely with QF.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

My families VFF point totals:
Daughter - 0
Daughter - 0
Son - 0
Wife - 0
Me - 0

I'm not sure if it's a good move or not (VFF will probably now bring out a point burn promo just to spite me), but being honest, I worry about the direction VA/VFF is heading. On the brighter side, my KF points tally is now looking quite healthy, to the tune of a couple of return EU suites!

EDIT: And so to is my QFF tally. Strengthening by the day!