Velocity points now worthless in 2023 (extreme stealth devaluation)

[CorporateFlyerMEL]

Given VA is now pretty much exclusive 737 airline, yes the availability of J class awards has dropped given that the number of J physical seats across the network (without the wide bodies) has dropped. I was able to book 2 J class rewards seats Mel/Queenstown/Mel on preferred dates in July and Aug. The outbound flight still shows rewards seat/s still available (meaning it has at least 1 more available) and the inbound has not.

 

[Bagpuss]

Given VA is now pretty much exclusive 737 airline, yes the availability of J class awards has dropped given that the number of J physical seats across the network (without the wide bodies) has dropped. I was able to book 2 J class rewards seats Mel/Queenstown/Mel on preferred dates in July and Aug. The outbound flight still shows rewards seat/s still available (meaning it has at least 1 more available) and the inbound has not.

I don't think it's much to do with the 737's. The rule of thumb really was 2 seats for many years.
It's really a supply and demand issue. Demand is high and supply is still low so why offer so many reward seats when people are willing to pay.
The reality I have come to with J class rewards, obviously from my point being in Perth.
Going to Brisbane / Sydney / Melbourne:
You can essentially fly economy with almost half the amount of points compared to business class. (Aka being a plat you get economy x plus twice as many trips)
Upgrademe points to business doesn't really cut it. You're paying around $300 for a flight plus 30,000 points as opposed to 42,000 for an outright business rewards (lower if you pay taxes). Granted you get status credits and points. It's kinda a poor deal, wait for DSC's.
Upgrade-me bids are probably around $200 - $300. As a plat I'd sooner just spend $100 on the board menu and save money (not that I've ever spent that much on board).
To bring this back in line ... I looked at Melbourne <> Queenstown. I noticed they seem to offer up to 3 business class rewards. This maybe in line with the short haul international network. I suspect this is probably a bit more bums on seats and get word of mouth.

 

[love_the_life]

Ok, I didn't realise I've been lucky for over 10 years until just two weeks ago. I must be a 50 time lottery ticket winner!

And no, that is not my expectation whatsoever. My expectation is there would be AT least one flight with more than 2 J seats for ANY flight on ANY domestic J route at the standard reward rate at ANY time in the next 2 years. This is with flights that have 8 out of 8 seats fully free. Actually, that's not even my expectation; it's my observation that things have changed

Heck, even check Syd to Mel or any other domestic routes. I'll give you even ability to look one year in advance. That is wildly different from the claim you say I'm making that I expect more than 2 seats at ANY time for that single route. I think that is a huge strawman you are making on my side. An expectation is also very different from an observation in changes. I don't expect loyalty programs to do anything, I just like to point it out when they do.

Considering there are only (sorry) 8 J seats on domestic VA 737 flights I think expecting even more than one is pretty hopeful.

Edited to fix my counting error - 2 rows of 2 makes 8 not 4

 

[kyle]

Considering there are only 4 J seats on domestic VA 737 flights I think expecting even more than one is pretty hopeful.

8?

 

[Vic]

Drip Feeding???????? Isn't this called Revenue Management. Virgin Australia didn't just invent this stuff in 2023. It's been around for years and years. IATA even offer training courses in Revenue Management.

Revenue Management Training

Through a serious of 3 consecutive courses, IATA offers the ultimate revenue management training. Try and test, win and lose in a risk free environment with the help of a revenue management simulator.

www.iata.org

 

[Bagpuss]

Drip Feeding???????? Isn't this called Revenue Management. Virgin Australia didn't just invent this stuff in 2023. It's been around for years and years. IATA even offer training courses in Revenue Management.

Revenue Management Training

Through a serious of 3 consecutive courses, IATA offers the ultimate revenue management training. Try and test, win and lose in a risk free environment with the help of a revenue management simulator.

www.iata.org

VA's revenue management is quite poor.

When you're in business class and there's a flight cancellation, the passengers on the disrupted flight really are fighting for flights with available business class seats. Really they should be looking at options to bump reward redemption's, upgrademe etc. Obviously, there's two sides to this if you're the person who's had a flight change or a person being downgraded. But when you pay for business class and get downgraded on another flight, knowing there's people in business class on a reward booking it is a bit sobering.

 

[Happy Dude]

The rule of thumb really was 2 seats for many years.

Except for some lucky punters, it always was. And it still is, isn't it? Also, the thumb was severed recently, which had absolutely nothing to do with supply and demand and everything to do with stealth, and was then only re-attached by yield management in response to this forum.

 

[straitman]

VA's revenue management is quite poor.

When you're in business class and there's a flight cancellation, the passengers on the disrupted flight really are fighting for flights with available business class seats. Really they should be looking at options to bump reward redemption's, upgrademe etc. Obviously, there's two sides to this if you're the person who's had a flight change or a person being downgraded. But when you pay for business class and get downgraded on another flight, knowing there's people in business class on a reward booking it is a bit sobering.

That is your opinion. The methodology used is very systematic and logical.
It’s in line with what I learnt in Airline Management and Aviation Management as part of my Masters degree 20 plus years ago.
What else would you do instead?

Except for some lucky punters, it always was. And it still is, isn't it? Also, the thumb was severed recently, which had absolutely nothing to do with supply and demand and everything to do with stealth, and was then only re-attached by yield management in response to this forum.

Do you really think that VA have changed their procedures as a response to this thread.

 

[Bagpuss]

That is your opinion. The methodology used is very systematic and logical.
It’s in line with what I learnt in Airline Management and Aviation Management as part of my Masters degree 20 years ago.
What else would you do instead?

I don't have a solution and I did say there's two sides to it. In truth is when there's a higher than usual level of cancellations and higher loads the knock on affects and awareness is greater than usual.
The current way of working is exactly as you said "systematic and logical" cause it's simply moving the affected flight without affecting passengers on other flights.

In reality "bring on wonderful" as an ongoing marketing campaign and at such a time isn't the smartest campaign to be running.

 

[Happy Dude]

Do you really think that VA have changed their procedures as a response to this thread.

No. But I'm not saying they didn't. Not aloud. Not around here, again....

 

[Bagpuss]

No. But I'm not saying they didn't. Not aloud. Not around here, again....

I also doubt VA (Virgin Australia) are cared about this forum and nor are Velocity. Some staff probably have a read and most likely giggle at us

However, we all care and that's why we are here

 

[love_the_life]

8?

Oops - can't count
Still if the OP wants to book 4 seats that would cut down the number of revenue seats available.

 

[cove]

I just used some velocity points to have SIL fly business class SYD TO PER in January. Quick and easy too.

 

[Vic]

Again, you do not know the meaning of value or devalue or devaluation. You haven't really contributed anything but false info about Krisflyer redemption rate / fee and misunderstanding what devaluation means. Worth or value does not necessarily have to do with cost; this is basic English. You can have no worth as a human if you are a serial murderer. You can also place more value on a partner who supports you. In both cases, it doesn't mean you cost more or less ; the concept of value or worth is multifaceted and not just as simple as that. The lack of understanding of basic English is insane. Hilton points could be devalued if they suddenly make standard rooms not bookable. Currently, the policy is that if there is a standard room then you can use points to pay for it. If they change that policy to only allow 1 per date per hotel in the pool, that can be considered a devaluation, even if that room stays at 10,000 points. It's a really easy to follow and basic example..

Seriously, I'm not sure you've read any of my posts. The limited information I've provided in thread was stated with clear conditions. the only way to claim that info is false is to ignore those conditions.
The value of points is entirely about cost. What value do I get for my points? It is an objective determination, it can be directly measured.
The value of a point has nothing to do with someone being a serial killer.
The value of people is subjective based on multiple factors. That's a poor analogy for a value that can be directly measured using one factor, IMO.

In any case, you've claimed the points are worthless - that means 100% reduction. Yet you can only point to a 50% reduction. That's not worthless.

As for contribution and understanding basic english - I can only think something about pots and kettles.

 

[mingzie]

The value of people is subjective based on multiple factors. That's a poor analogy for a value that can be directly measured using one factor, IMO.

You still are not understanding what value means in English. Value for loyalty points are based on multiple factors, not just one. It definitely can NOT be measured using one factor. To claim that reward availability is not a factor in determining value of FF points (and there is only a single factor which is the theoretical lowest redemption rate you can get something for even if there is only one single seat in the global pool) is extremely disingenuous. It's even sillier when you realise availability literally affects the redemption rate you can get it at (you can't! it's like having the redemption rate at infinity!).

Krisflyer can fetch a premium not because the redemption rate is amazing, but because the availability is amazing. This is literally a multifactor determination. How can you not see this?!

 

[straitman]

[mod hat] This is getting personal again. Last warning [/mod hat]

 

[RooFlyer]

Value for loyalty points are based on multiple factors, not just one

Perhaps, but I'd venture that the main one is the relative 'value' judgment of the points currency holder. All this going on about understanding value is moot. You have your internal metrics, we all have our own.

To me, even with all the scenarios and conspiracy theories you’ve outlined, I do not consider virgin velocity points to be devalued in any way recently. That's because those factors don’t affect the way I use them or the amenity I extract from them. Now, if they increased the points cost of an awards seat I chose, that would be devaluation to me.

As we say in the trade, YMMV.

 

[GrahamBRI]

That's because those factors don’t affect the way I use them or the amenity I extract from them.

100% agree, the value I can extract out of VA points is the same as it always has been for me. If I could trade in points I certainly would be happy trading at the same value I acquired my points 12 months ago, because I continue to extract more value out of them, than what they what they were acquired for.

 

[MooTime]

QR via VFF points..... ADL to Warsaw. a 2min search 10 months out.
2 J all the way n return baby. (no i didn't book, just sayin')

 

[mingzie]

Perhaps, but I'd venture that the main one is the relative 'value' judgment of the points currency holder. All this going on about understanding value is moot. You have your internal metrics, we all have our own.

To me, even with all the scenarios and conspiracy theories you’ve outlined, I do not consider virgin velocity points to be devalued in any way recently. That's because those factors don’t affect the way I use them or the amenity I extract from them. Now, if they increased the points cost of an awards seat I chose, that would be devaluation to me.

As we say in the trade, YMMV.

I mean we don't disagree at all. But that's completely separate to the point that availability is definitely not a factor of value that Vic is arguing.

That's the only point I am arguing against.. which is silly for the exact reason that it is both subjective AND not unreasonable that availability is a factor (or that there are other factors) in value.

But yeah these arguments are pointless. Whenever I say one thing people just jump in with so many unrelated things shutting me down lol, forgetting that I am a fan of velocity too.