Very disappointed about Qantas FF program

[SydneySwan]

In fairness to Qantas, they don't guarantee business class reward seats on any particular flight/route.

But they should. Finnair, BA, etc. do.

 

[BenP]

This thread highlights the fundamental problem. AFFers know how limited award seats are and how the system really works. The problem is Joe Public who isn't all clued up on it and hasn't read all the fine print lands up believing that they should be able to redeem their points in the class of travel they want for the advertised classic award rates.

Prior to reading this forum I would have been in this category as well
I also think another part of the problem (all though more indirect and I'm not trying to shift the blame from the airlines this the majority of their fault) is that numerous people help feed the perception that there is availability when you want in the cabin you want.
The numerous flight reviewers who say they flew business class on points giving the impression that such flights are pretty easy to obtain. Also throw in the fact that nearly every 2nd person answer to the best use of points is to fly premium cabins to Europe - again reinforcing the perception that such flights are easy to get

 

[Layslow]

Take a $9 subscription to Gyoza and search busines and first and keep the destination vague like Australia to Africa, then search the month you would like to travel. I got a trip back from the US (Seattle) to Australia in October (Melb), but it came through on Emirates using Qantas points - one way in First was 227,000 points + $2600 in additional fees and taxes (travelling on 777's all the way through). The price for an A380 service out of DFW was around 344,000 points plus the same fees and taxes - one way back to Oz. Unfortunately we will be paying a lot more for those tickets as more points flood the market.

 

[BD1959]

I understand the OP's frustration and their feeling they've been misled by QFF. I think anyone who has joined the QFF scheme in the last 10years has done so on the back of glossy ads showing B787s flying towards a sunset or breathless CC ads for 120,000 points sign-on fees ("fly Business Class to Hong Kong") which promote a rewards scheme most of us "oldies" know is unattainable to those targeted.

Most of us are old enough in the scheme to understand what is - and what isn't - possible. Qantas sells out pretty much as soon as their Business Award inventory appears and usually - this late in the piece - one has to get "creative" to find partner Business Reward seats.

To the OP, this late in the piece - unless something last minute opens up on EK or QR - you need to be flexible. You *can* book premium awards this late and it doesn't have to be at Classic Plus rates. You do need to be flexible though.

Here's a quick itinerary, it is intended to show what *is* possible, doubtless by playing with different routes/days you'll find something closer to the all J fare you're looking for, hopefully with less transit time along the way. However if I was looking at such an "unusual routing" this late, I would book something like this now and then continue to review late release on more direct routes right up to the time of travel.

 

[SeatBackForward]

I understand the OP's frustration and their feeling they've been misled by QFF. I think anyone who has joined the QFF scheme in the last 10years has done so on the back of glossy ads showing B787s flying towards a sunset or breathless CC ads for 120,000 points sign-on fees ("fly Business Class to Hong Kong") which promote a rewards scheme most of us "oldies" know is unattainable to those targeted.

Most of us are old enough in the scheme to understand what is - and what isn't - possible. Qantas sells out pretty much as soon as their Business Award inventory appears and usually - this late in the piece - one has to get "creative" to find partner Business Reward seats.

To the OP, this late in the piece - unless something last minute opens up on EK or QR - you need to be flexible. You *can* book premium awards this late and it doesn't have to be at Classic Plus rates. You do need to be flexible though.

Here's a quick itinerary, it is intended to show what *is* possible, doubtless by playing with different routes/days you'll find something closer to the all J fare you're looking for, hopefully with less transit time along the way. However if I was looking at such an "unusual routing" this late, I would book something like this now and then continue to review late release on more direct routes right up to the time of travel.

My goodness that requires a LOT of flexibility - two overnight transits. I 100% agree with your comment about Qantas misleading customers. they've essentially made it public perception that number of points = High Status from flying.

 

[BD1959]

My goodness that requires a LOT of flexibility - two overnight transits. I 100% agree with your comment about Qantas misleading customers. they've essentially made it public perception that number of points = High Status from flying.

Agreed - but this was put together in the space of 10mins - I doubt that there aren't better timed options.

Regards,

BD

 

[SeatBackForward]

Agreed - but this was put together in the space of 10mins - I doubt that there aren't better timed options.

And this coming from a position of understanding routes, partners, airports etc. To the average punter they could easily spend hours or days searching, but still coming up with something that ends up being a pain in the bum.

I suspect the vast majority of QFF members end up using Points + Pay thinking they are falsely thinking they are "saving" money...

 

[sevenfourtyseven]

There's plenty of social media out there promoting how easy it is to earn and redeem points (not just QF specific) which is contributing to this general and unrealistic perception that there will be award seats available all the time for the flights you want.

These 'influencers' and their posts and videos, make it seem so easy - where in reality it is not.

 

[BD1959]

And this coming from a position of understanding routes, partners, airports etc. To the average punter they could easily spend hours or days searching, but still coming up with something that ends up being a pain in the bum.

I suspect the vast majority of QFF members end up using Points + Pay thinking they are falsely thinking they are "saving" money...

There's always the option of calling QFF and paying an assisted booking fee.

Regards,

BD

 

[SeatBackForward]

There's always the option of calling QFF and paying an assisted booking fee

And run the Gauntlet of the QFF Call centre?? Again, the average punter would be clueless of how incompetent they are and just accept whatever they've been told. Only today I had one operator insist something was not possible, only for me to hang up and call again and have another operator do that action without issue. If my business was run with that type of inconsistency heads would roll.

 

[WilsonM]

There's always the option of calling QFF and paying an assisted booking fee.

Regards,

BD

Operators aren't gonna find the routings you need to piece together a multi-city journey to Europe, for example. If you say you want to fly SYD-LHR, they'll have a look at that route. They're not going to look for or offer SYD-CGK-DXB-LGW for example, because if you put SYD-LHR as a search, this won't appear. This is why concierge services and numerous facebook pages exist for award travel.

And as @SeatBackForward put it, some agents don't quite get the complexities of award travel.

But, should people have to put in a lot of effort to get outsized value in rewards? Maybe, maybe not - I don't think I can make a judgement as I'm inherently biased by the fact that my context is vastly different to most people.

I guess it raises another question - if we (the customer) can only trade money and/or time for flights, would it not be reasonable to expect that reward flights (which cost less money) take more time to find? Or should it be that the time traded is actually the time spent being loyal to the program, and not the time looking for flights? Or is there no correlation between time spent and money spent?

 

[BD1959]

And run the Gauntlet of the QFF Call centre?? Again, the average punter would be clueless of how incompetent they are and just accept whatever they've been told. Only today I had one operator insist something was not possible, only for me to hang up and call again and have another operator do that action without issue. If my business was run with that type of inconsistency heads would roll.

So they are ignorant of the options but should be discouraged from reaching out to those who can help. What do you suggest - that anyone not versed in the minute of the QFF redemptions just give up?

Operators aren't gonna find the routings you need to piece together a multi-city journey to Europe, for example.

I've had precisely this - when an itinerary wouldn't book because of a segment being incorrectly loaded into QF's system.

YMMV.

Regards,

BD

 

[GrahamBRI]

I want to pressure Qantas to provide seats within a reasonable time, at the rates they publish in their Points calculator, ie 108,400 each way from Melb to Johannesburg return for Business Class seats as I have a back condition & cant fly economy on such a long flight.

How many seats do you feel would be reasonable for Qantas to release? Qantas has in the past had "points planes". There was an A380 points plane open with every seat available for points booking. This is what was posted on the thread for that flight:

It went live at approx 4:56am Perth time and I snagged a first class seat (which were sold out by 5:01am, with business class selling out by approx 5:08am. There's still economy and PE available as of 5:18am

I think Matt's comment in his article (How I Make Qantas Reward Availability Work for Me) is the thing not well appreciated by all: "demand for these reward seats far exceeds the supply.".

I would not be surprised that if Qantas (and its partners) released 10x the premium seats it currently releases, I think you will see that they will all be taken within the first week of release and definitely all gone within the first month.

Equate the challenge of getting premium reward seats on Qantas (and partners) to getting tickets to Taylor Swift at the MCG....... it doesn't matter how many tickets they release, they will all be sold out in 50mins. Having enough Qantas points is just the first step in participating in this challenge.

I think you will get more joy, spending your time trying to understand how to make your points work for you (because you can win), than you will get complaining to those that can't or won't help.

Good luck with the path you choose to take; and either way, keep us updated on your successes.

 

[bPeteb]

We're flying to Nairobi in May. I booked our flights in October last year. We're flying Brisbane-Sydney-Johanessburg return with Qantas. We're flying Kenyan to Nairobi that we have booked separately. As a platinum I was able to book premium economy return on points for my partner. Back in October business was also available on the dates that we were looking. I know this doesn't help you, but it isn't a rort. Status gets you access to seats, not 1,000,000 points.

 

[SeatBackForward]

So they are ignorant of the options but should be discouraged from reaching out to those who can help. What do you suggest - that anyone not versed in the minute of the QFF redemptions just give up?

I'm not inferring that QFF members are ignorant, quite the opposite, that they've been mostly misled by QF, and will genuinely believe (without the knowledge that your average AFF'er has on hand) that points can easily be redeemed for luxurious flights when and wherever they want.

They will reach out to the QFF call centre, who - by many experiences noted here and otherwise - seem to be more keen to get rid of customers than actually try to address or solve the queries raised, or end up whether intentional or not, to cancel and alter bookings incorrectly.

I don't know what to suggest, but like any other endeavour, a little research and perseverance helps, but you can't expect everyone to come up to speed with the years of knowledge and experience forums like AFF have. A cynic might even say QF intentionally make it hard, to push it's members onto the far more profitable options for redeeming flights, and toasters that those who give up will end up using.

 

[elanshin]

I'm not inferring that QFF members are ignorant, quite the opposite, that they've been mostly misled by QF, and will genuinely believe (without the knowledge that your average AFF'er has on hand) that points can easily be redeemed for luxurious flights when and wherever they want.

They will reach out to the QFF call centre, who - by many experiences noted here and otherwise - seem to be more keen to get rid of customers than actually try to address or solve the queries raised, or end up whether intentional or not, to cancel and alter bookings incorrectly.

I don't know what to suggest, but like any other endeavour, a little research and perseverance helps, but you can't expect everyone to come up to speed with the years of knowledge and experience forums like AFF have. A cynic might even say QF intentionally make it hard to push it's members onto the far more profitable options for redeeming flights, and toasters that those who give up will end up using.

To some degree, i agree here although as the saying goes, if it's too good to be true, it probably isnt.

It also doesn't help right now there's an increase in bombardment of points ads that honestly have nothing to do with Qantas. For example pay.com.au spams me with ads everywhere and nowhere do they mention the fees they charge nor the difficulty in getting flights. Just X points which meant id you paid Y dollars through us you too can do get it.

Travel vloggers also are constantly using miles and points making it seem like its easy but they're usually highly seasoned, professional travellers who are also capable of last minute swapping aircrafts / airlines/ routes if different availabilities appear.

 

[GrahamBRI]

I'm not inferring that QFF members are ignorant, quite the opposite, that they've been mostly misled by QF

Maybe a post for the grammar forum, but is it that they are "misled" - this would be illegal conduct, or are they "misguided" - using snippets of information (from Qantas partners, bloggers and others) to form an incorrect assumption?

 

[SeatBackForward]

Travel vloggers also are constantly using miles and points making it seem like its easy but they're usually highly seasoned, professional travellers who are also capable of last minute swapping aircrafts / airlines/ routes if different availabilities appear.

I'd say they also have far more flexibility (than regular employed, people with children etc) in when/where they travel so can snap up those tickets more readily.

 

[Daver6]

How many seats do you feel would be reasonable for Qantas to release? Qantas has in the past had "points planes". There was an A380 points plane open with every seat available for points booking. This is what was posted on the thread for that flight:

It went live at approx 4:56am Perth time and I snagged a first class seat (which were sold out by 5:01am, with business class selling out by approx 5:08am. There's still economy and PE available as of 5:18am

I think Matt's comment in his article (How I Make Qantas Reward Availability Work for Me) is the thing not well appreciated by all: "demand for these reward seats far exceeds the supply.".

I would not be surprised that if Qantas (and its partners) released 10x the premium seats it currently releases, I think you will see that they will all be taken within the first week of release and definitely all gone within the first month.

Equate the challenge of getting premium reward seats on Qantas (and partners) to getting tickets to Taylor Swift at the MCG....... it doesn't matter how many tickets they release, they will all be sold out in 50mins. Having enough Qantas points is just the first step in participating in this challenge.

I think you will get more joy, spending your time trying to understand how to make your points work for you (because you can win), than you will get complaining to those that can't or won't help.

Good luck with the path you choose to take; and either way, keep us updated on your successes.

Maybe QF should be forced to have a minimum number of award seats available on each flight (QF operated). At least that way there is some transparency.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Maybe QF should be forced to have a minimum number of award seats available on each flight (QF operated). At least that way there is some transparency.

QF can already say this is true - Classic Plus Redemptions, or even Points+Pay if stretching the truth as far as it goes.