VH-EBV layout?

[mannej]

Even news.com has run a story on it.

Fantastic or fail? Qantas criticised over business class 'inflight workspace' | News.com.au

It is funny they are about 12 months behind on this one...

 

[SteveJohnson]

News.com are hardly a QF supporter, last weeks story regarding the Belgium prince complete with profanity headline was a case in point, although dragging the press out of bed on a Sunday morning to promote more of the same is a somewhat questionable tactic.

Not sure how the time of the event has anything to do with this? Are you suggesting the media gave Qantas a rap over the knuckles because they didn't get to sleep in on a Sunday?

Anyway News.com.au (not News.com, that's a US technology site) being perceived as pro-QF or anti-QF is beside the point I think. This config is quite correctly being criticised by everyone except Qantas PR! And the significance of the News story is that it shows this issue has gone mainstream. I only wish that article had drawn a comparison between the Qantas and Virgin A330 business class products and had a photo of the Virgin seat, that would really have shown how p*ss poor this effort of Qantas is.

 

[oz_mark]

This config is quite correctly being criticised by everyone except Qantas PR!

It is, however, consistent with the previous two A330s. And as this site keeps pointing out, consistency is key

 

[ChrisCunard]

Sadly it's inconsistent with the 73's 76's and over 1/2 of the other A332's they use. The fleet is a mess.

By my count, on any given PER-SYD / PER - MEL booking you could (and I have) had the following:

= QF Domestic Options =

747 Skybed Mk I (understand being phased out).
A333 Skybed Mk I
A332 Skybed Mk I
A332 2-2-2
A332 2-3-2
767 New Config
767 Old Domestic Config - QF Bird
767 Old Domestic Config - BA Bird (so no air)
767 Old International Config
738 New J with IFE
738 Old J with no IFE
734 Euro-J (though v. rare on this route)

== DJ Domestic ==

A332 - New Bird
A332 - EK Bird
738 - All with J

--

Another thing that really irks me is that Qantas know the 2-3-2 layout is a total joke. Why else would they have these images as their "your seat" section of their on-board experience...



I mean, if you thought you were booking that, and got below... you'd be annoyed, right?

 

[moa999]

And from next year it will be all 332s in 2x2x2 configuration (with our without the workspace) and exactly the same seat pitch, and similar seat width

 

[ChrisCunard]

Yeah... except on a weekend, or until they change their minds again.

I mean announcement wise it's been 747, no 747, oh yes 747 again, no wait... how about refreshed 767's, "more A330's with sky beds, now all A332's... I don't think the average passenger cares what designation the aircraft has painted on the side, they just want to know what they're buying. That the seat on the website is the same seat they will get on board.

And from next year it will be all 332s in 2x2x2 configuration (with our without the workspace) and exactly the same seat pitch, and similar seat width

I beg to differ. Even if it's all A332's, for the passenger it's a lucky dip between Skybed, 2-3-2 (that's what it is) and 2-2-2. There are only 5 'domestic' A332's so the Skybed planes will be in the mix.

Isn't it a bit strange to ask for the same amount of money for a Skybed as a 2-3-2 chair? Doesn't that undervalue Skybed? Overvalue the 2-3-2 layout... it's basic brand consistency management... Ahhh well, thank goodness for competition is all I can say

 

[Wezza]

The refurbed 767 cabin looks far more inviting I have to say.

 

[mannej]

It's funny the two pictures you have out up of the 767 millennium seat and the recaro seat have very similar seat pitches.

I don't like the 330 recaro config, but is the virgin product viable in the long term? Numbers wise is only having 24 seats good for business?

Certainly makes for an interesting time for transcon travel doesn't it?

 

[anat0l]

It's funny the two pictures you have out up of the 767 millennium seat and the recaro seat have very similar seat pitches.

I don't like the 330 recaro config, but is the virgin product viable in the long term? Numbers wise is only having 24 seats good for business?

Certainly makes for an interesting time for transcon travel doesn't it?

Why would Virgin not be viable in the long term?

The only problem they may have is getting physically more J pax into the planes (as they will need more J seats). There are ways around that, e.g. putting on more flights, which has an additional advantage of giving more schedule flexibility. Hey, we could even see an upgauge in equipment, e.g. to 777 or 787.

I think the Virgin plan right now is not necessarily divide and conquer, but rather to make a stolid entry. I believe JB said some time ago that profit is good, but it is not a be all and end all proposition - there's an equal to greater emphasis on the customer experience. Not quite his words, but something like that.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I don't like the 330 recaro config, but is the virgin product viable in the long term? Numbers wise is only having 24 seats good for business?

Jury is out for me of it being viable. Certainly not with the cabin full of flexi fare half price points upgrades.

Regardless of that, what they did do is realise they can't take the whole market, only a portion of it, and designed the cabin with that in mind. If you have 12 people in a 36 seat cabin, what's the use of the extra 24 seats if they're the same as the competition? Create a clear differentiation of product and fit the aircraft according to the realistic market you can pull.

It will be interesting to see if they can pull solid profits with such a layout.

 

[smit0847]

If QF finds J pax choosing the VA A330s over the QF ones because, oh, I don't know, the seats are much better and much cheaper it will no doubt be the fault of the unions, the economy, the cost of labour, market forces, oil prices, government regulation etc. The QF board has never admitted it has ever made a single mistake so I don't know why they would start now.

 

[codash1099]

Virgin's 2-2-2 lie flat cabin is completely enclosed between doors 1 and 2.

Qantas' 2-2-2 Skybed Mk I takes up space aft of door 2.

To illustrate:
View attachment 11224

Virgin's layout is superb and John Borghetti is smart enough not to lower standards to meet Qantas' poor effort.

How do you think we would all react if QF reduced their J numbers to 24? Imagine the cries of "reduced upgrade possibility" for a start.

 

[ChrisCunard]

Except DJ have never refused me an upgrade. I think most if not all J seats are upgradable - not just 2 or 3/36...42...

 

[lovestotravel]

How do you think we would all react if QF reduced their J numbers to 24? Imagine the cries of "reduced upgrade possibility" for a start.

Why would they need to ? Qantas J is usually very full

 

[esquire]

Jury is out for me of it being viable. Certainly not with the cabin full of flexi fare half price points upgrades.

Regardless of that, what they did do is realise they can't take the whole market, only a portion of it, and designed the cabin with that in mind. If you have 12 people in a 36 seat cabin, what's the use of the extra 24 seats if they're the same as the competition? Create a clear differentiation of product and fit the aircraft according to the realistic market you can pull.

It will be interesting to see if they can pull solid profits with such a layout.

I have been doing about half my regular QF Y flights SYD-PER or MEL-PER with DJ with flexi upgrades over the past 2 months (inbetween the new QF year). On four occassions there have been less then 4 passengers in J - and on one flight I overheard that "they are all upgrades".

I even had a DJ PER-MEL flight in Y (thought I'd try out economy) -I sat down during boarding - was approached by CSM prior to take off and asked to move to Row 2 "as a valued platinum". He moved up 2 Platinum members to J (and the only 2 in J) in order to give the FAs something to do!

It is a great product (and without doubt a bargain on flexi points upgrade until 31 Dec) but I fear it is not a viable product and one day these planes will be announced for an international route and less fancy DJ birds will return to the PER routes.
Even though I am not a fan of the A332s J seats it sounds like QF are being more realistic and they can fill them.

More importantly - for those of use who fly Y more often than not to/from Perth - the QF A332s are my bird of choice.

 

[oz_mark]

If QF finds J pax choosing the VA A330s over the QF ones because, oh, I don't know, the seats are much better and much cheaper it will no doubt be the fault of the unions, the economy, the cost of labour, market forces, oil prices, government regulation etc.

Given they have been using this configuration for a year or so now, I don't really see why having another aircraft in the same configuration is going to make people go to the competition.

 

[lovestotravel]

I have been doing about half my regular QF Y flights SYD-PER or MEL-PER with DJ with flexi upgrades over the past 2 months (inbetween the new QF year). On four occassions there have been less then 4 passengers in J - and on one flight I overheard that "they are all upgrades".

I even had a DJ PER-MEL flight in Y (thought I'd try out economy) -I sat down during boarding - was approached by CSM prior to take off and asked to move to Row 2 "as a valued platinum". He moved up 2 Platinum members to J (and the only 2 in J) in order to give the FAs something to do!

It is a great product (and without doubt a bargain on flexi points upgrade until 31 Dec) but I fear it is not a viable product and one day these planes will be announced for an international route and less fancy DJ birds will return to the PER routes.

Even though I am not a fan of the A332s J seats it sounds like QF are being more realistic and they can fill them.

Sounds 100% correct

The Virgin A330's are set for something else, no-one seems sure yet, but they are an overkill for the Australian flights

 

[codash1099]

Why would they need to ? Qantas J is usually very full

They don't need to. I was talking about the comparisons between DJ with 24 J seats and QF with 36. If QF matched the DJ layout (which so many laud), we'd be up in arms about the loss of J seats. Or would you suggest that QF keep 36J and reduced the number of Y seats?

Don't get me wrong - I don't like the current layout at all.

 

[markis10]

Given they have been using this configuration for a year or so now, I don't really see why having another aircraft in the same configuration is going to make people go to the competition.

Depends on how many people think its "new" like the press article infers!

Fantastic or fail? Qantas criticised over business class 'inflight workspace' | News.com.au

Even travel agents think its new going by the quote:

Travel agency Donna Barlow said: "Reconfigured Qantas A330's – fantastic or fail?"

​

 

[lovestotravel]

Travel agents... LOL