Virgin 787s?

[Lucass]

Will virgin australia dry-lease some 787s from qatar eventually? They could get some of their ageing 787-8s and use them for los angeles/asia flights. They could also use them on mel/syd/bne to perth flights to better compete with Qantas.

 

[Lucass]

1) The MAX might be capable of flying from those destinations, but is there actually a market there? If they can't make Cairns-Tokyo work, I'd argue the routes you propose would similarly be unviable.

2) Perth-Malaysia is very well covered by the Malaysian carriers already. Jetstar have swooped into the Perth-Thailand market. Perth-Vietnam non-stop is a developing market but already covered by both Vietnam Airlines and VietJet. It would be a bloodbath if VA entered any of these markets.

3) There is no spare capacity under the bilateral agreement with Indonesia to fly to Jakarta. They'd have to cut flights to Bali which just isn't going to happen when they need more capacity to Bali, not less.

He asked me where in Asia they can fly to. I gave a list, I didn’t say anything about demand. I was saying that a 737 max has the ability to fly those routes if they wanted

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 10:06 PM

There was a recent post about some aircraft leaving:

H

Post in thread 'Virgin Australia to Reconfigure 737 Fleet - Spend $110M'

Friday at 10:47 PM

VUI and VUJ reported on another forum as leaving the VA fleet this year (as both never got the Y-heavy cabin reconfigurations), followed by VUO. The 2 ex-Singapore/SilkAir (IJR and IXK) at this stage is reported to arrive at the end of February and early March respectively.

All subject to change of course.

• HS-TQE

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They were flying routes a few hours ago, I don’t think they’ve left the fleet

 

[Harrison_133]

They were flying routes a few hours ago, I don’t think they’ve left the fleet

Not yet, but they are expected to leave in coming months.

 

[AIRwin]

Will virgin australia dry-lease some 787s from qatar eventually?

T

Post in thread 'Virgin Australia to lease more 737s'

Aug 31, 2021

• twinaisle

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[TheInsider]

Not good, but it doesn’t mean there aren’t other possibilities that could work in the future

Because it wasn't clear enough before, where do you think in Asia would work for VA specifically, with the specific B737?

 

[twinaisle]

T

Post in thread 'Virgin Australia to lease more 737s'

Aug 31, 2021

• twinaisle

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Probably the only 787 anyone will see in VA livery. A toy.

 

[Himeno]

A 737 max 8 can fly between Cairns, Darwin, Townsville & Perth to Hong Kong & Singapore as well as Thailand/Malaysia/vietnam from Perth. Melbourne/Sydney to Jakarta. It can reach many Asian cities buddy

VA couldn't make HKG work with A330s. They have no chance of doing so with 737s, their attempt at CNS-HND shows that few people want to fly 8+ hours on a narrow body.
737 flights from PER/DRW to SIN/KUL may work, but is isn't going to happen from Queensland ports.

 

[elanshin]

A 737 max 8 can fly between Cairns, Darwin, Townsville & Perth to Hong Kong & Singapore as well as Thailand/Malaysia/vietnam from Perth. Melbourne/Sydney to Jakarta. It can reach many Asian cities buddy

Can reach doesn't mean people will want to hop on.

Lets take SYD <> KUL. Route is not serviced by QF group. But why would you want to be on a 737M8 for 7.5H when you can fly MH in their a350 with actual business class (and access to QF lounges if you have status)? Or fly Air Asia or Batik if you're going cheap.

If you go say regional to a hub, let me put it in reverse. Why has Singapore air not started flying that route? (They're flying practically to every major and secondary city) Or Cathay for Hong Kong? Chances are its to do with economics.

Its not that having ideas isn't good, it's just that there's no reason for VA to be the one doing the insane risk taking. Like why would you want VA to be doing any of this in the first place? Just so that it's cool?

Edit: I should make one thing clear, its not like most of us DON'T want to see VA take up the challenge to QF and succeed. The problem is we don't want them to end up like Rex and going bankrupt again when history has shown it happening multiple times.

 

[elanshin]

737 flights from PER/DRW to SIN/KUL may work, but is isn't going to happen from Queensland ports.

I can't see VA trying for PER to SIN /KUL without SIA group responding as they're now stepping on their toes. Could cause other political problems for VA if SIA isn't happy.

KUL could also see Air Asia / Batik launch price war and VA likely would lose those.

 

[HS-TQE]

Considering Batik Group (both Indonesia and Malaysia) has cut back on their amenities in Y to the same BoB/Low Cost Carrier service as VA Y, VA 'entering' PER-KUL or PER-DPS (unlikely due to full bilaterals) would very much be a bloodbath.

Sure VA may have the better FF for J passengers (although lounge access for both Batik and Virgin in J is a mess), adding PER to SE Asia routes for leisure travellers would probably add very little to VA's Short Haul International Leisure bottom line.

HKT would be a borderline case at best (now that VA have the MAX-8s) considering VA 1.0's previous attempt at PER-HKT during the Borghetti era with the older 738s.

 

[ols]

Pigs would grow wings faster than this would happen tbh

Do these pigs have business class?

 

[ols]

They use the a330s on most flights between MEL and PER as well as several per day on SYD to PER. The CEO and various execs at virgin have stated they are eying a return to having international flying

The CEO is DOA

 

[Lucass]

Once again I think you are playing the armchair CEO role again. Just because you say they would be successful, doesn't mean that they will be and it's been proven many times that these 'opportunities' are failures.

Japan routes are extremely thin in profits.

Just by putting a codeshare on a flight, doesn't mean it will fill up either.

Honolulu is a premium leisure destination and not good for business travel, which is what is needed for a VA international operation to be successful. Otherwise, they just need to compete with JQ and be a LCC, which according to VA, they aren't.


Where would VA get the crew from? How would they train them up? What EBA would they have to go on?
Qantas currently has many trained crew (pilots and cabin) which are on a different EBA to the domestic crew. You have a scale thing here. VA have nothing. You can't even get flight sim training on short notice, many places are booked out for years and Qantas is even sending crew to overseas ports to do their training.

There are so many other factors than just putting on a flight, because you think it may make sense to you.

They don't necessarily need to directly compete with JQ internationally. Honolulu could definitely be successful. Qantas are taking over from JQ on MEL-HNL, and prices for a ticket will go about about twice as much. In the future, VA could fit in as a hybrid carrier and offer lower prices, but still a good product, like what they are doing now. On the BNE-LAX route, I know a codehsare doesn't automatically fill up a plane. But it can definitely help. Qantas flies, daily, year-round and Delta only x3 a week seasonally, so they can capture a market share. I know these things take time, and I understand all the training etc, but eventually I think these routes would be served by VA

 

[justinbrett]

They don't necessarily need to directly compete with JQ internationally. Honolulu could definitely be successful. Qantas are taking over from JQ on MEL-HNL, and prices for a ticket will go about about twice as much. In the future, VA could fit in as a hybrid carrier and offer lower prices, but still a good product, like what they are doing now. On the BNE-LAX route, I know a codehsare doesn't automatically fill up a plane. But it can definitely help. Qantas flies, daily, year-round and Delta only x3 a week seasonally, so they can capture a market share. I know these things take time, and I understand all the training etc, but eventually I think these routes would be served by VA

UA just pulled out of BNE-LAX even with a VA codeshare. You think VA is going to do better than UA?

I don’t think JQ is a good fit for HNL, and that seems to be confirmed with QFg swapping over the MEL route. If VA are serious about long haul, you can’t have QR style service on the DOH routes and some budget no frills service on Pacific routes. If VA were to get wide bodies they’d be much better off flying to the mainland (although as above I don’t think that’s actually a good idea either), rather than trying to squeeze itself into a crowded market where even longstanding incumbent HA has pulled routes.

 

[Lucass]

UA just pulled out of BNE-LAX even with a VA codeshare. You think VA is going to do better than UA?

I don’t think JQ is a good fit for HNL, and that seems to be confirmed with QFg swapping over the MEL route. If VA are serious about long haul, you can’t have QR style service on the DOH routes and some budget no frills service on Pacific routes. If VA were to get wide bodies they’d be much better off flying to the mainland (although as above I don’t think that’s actually a good idea either), rather than trying to squeeze itself into a crowded market where even longstanding incumbent HA has pulled routes.

What type of destinations in the mainland do you think?

 

[HS-TQE]

Keep in mind a lot of inbound based international routes into BNE is subsidised by the Queensland Government and the BAC through the Attracting Aviation Investment Fund (AAIF). Delta's seasonal LAX-BNE and AA's DFW-BNE are amongst the list of subsidised international routes.

It could be argued if it wasn't for said subsidies they would've easily sent the aircraft elsewhere, plus the AAIF doesn't mean guaranteed success, as Queensland found out when Scoot and AirAsia X immediately withdrew from their routes when the subsidies expired.

 

[justinbrett]

What type of destinations in the mainland do you think?

Well I don't think any, but if they had to do a trans Pacific route I'd suggest either SYD/MEL-SFO. Copy the QR model and fly into their biggest west coast hub.

But I don't think UA would be happy about it as it would likely come at a cost of their own capacity, the UA/VA partnership was formed on the basis that VA was a domestic / regional airline and acted as a feeder for UA. DL was a better fit for VA1 as DL has a much smaller presence in Australia and the two were complimentary.

Keep in mind a lot of inbound based international routes into BNE is subsidised by the Queensland Government and the BAC through the Attracting Aviation Investment Fund (AAIF). Delta's seasonal LAX-BNE and AA's DFW-BNE are amongst the list of subsidised international routes.

It could be argued if it wasn't for said subsidies they would've easily sent the aircraft elsewhere, plus the AAIF doesn't mean guaranteed success, as Queensland found out when Scoot and AirAsia X immediately withdrew from their routes when the subsidies expired.

It ends this year, and I don't think it will be extended with the new government.

 

[Lucass]

Well I don't think any, but if they had to do a trans Pacific route I'd suggest either SYD/MEL-SFO. Copy the QR model and fly into their biggest west coast hub.

But I don't think UA would be happy about it as it would likely come at a cost of their own capacity, the UA/VA partnership was formed on the basis that VA was a domestic / regional airline and acted as a feeder for UA. DL was a better fit for VA1 as DL has a much smaller presence in Australia and the two were complimentary.



It ends this year, and I don't think it will be extended with the new government.

What about SYD-seattle/houston/las vegas, do you think they could have success in these markets, if they try to monopolise them.

 

[justinbrett]

What about SYD-seattle/houston/las vegas, do you think they could have success in these markets, if they try to monopolise them.

SEA is a oneworld hub - could work for QF but even then they haven't been rushing in to launching it. VA would have no chance.
LAS has been floated by QF but as we've discussed on this forum I don't think it would ever be viable, it's too thin and easily served through LAX or SFO. VA would have no chance.

IAH? don't see the benefit, already a UA route so you're fighting over smaller capacity (it would push UA out of the route), and how does that benefit VA pax? Still the same connections available now and far more risk than CA routes.

I think you're trying to make VA equal to QF and it's just not going to happen. For starters VA isn't a *A airline. Ansett never flew to the US. VA1 was financially a terrible airline.

 

[Lucass]

SEA is a oneworld hub - could work for QF but even then they haven't been rushing in to launching it. VA would have no chance.
LAS has been floated by QF but as we've discussed on this forum I don't think it would ever be viable, it's too thin and easily served through LAX or SFO. VA would have no chance.

IAH? don't see the benefit, already a UA route so you're fighting over smaller capacity (it would push UA out of the route), and how does that benefit VA pax? Still the same connections available now and far more risk than CA routes.

I think you're trying to make VA equal to QF and it's just not going to happen. For starters VA isn't a *A airline. Ansett never flew to the US. VA1 was financially a terrible airline.

Yeah, the more I learn in this forum I think VA has no chnaces hhahha

 

[TheInsider]

Yeah, the more I learn in this forum I think VA has no chnaces hhahha

I think you've been scammed by the marketers who have made you think that VA is a fresh/cool new airline who provides a full service on wonderful aircraft. When in reality they are basically a domestic LCC.