Virgin 787s?

[Lucass]

Will virgin australia dry-lease some 787s from qatar eventually? They could get some of their ageing 787-8s and use them for los angeles/asia flights. They could also use them on mel/syd/bne to perth flights to better compete with Qantas.

 

[TheInsider]

Yes there is. Cathy operated Adelaide to Hong Kong pre-Covid, Singapore airlines also operated Singapore-canberra, so yes there is a market for many of these routes. Adelaide airport is also eying flights to Tokyo and canberra wants flights to Hong Kong and maybe Vietnam within next 5 years. Qatar has identified a market to doha from Canberra, so yes VA has options and customers to secure

There isn't, otherwise, it would be flown now by those same airlines.
So SIN-CBR, ADL-NRT/HND, ADL-SGN and CBR-HKG on a B737 max. Cool.
QR has used CBR to bypass the regulations that it can't get into another major port. These flights operated by QR from ADL, have about 20 passengers on them daily. Massive market.

 

[p--and--t]

As reported on another site re: CBR

"And it’s perhaps no accident that this announcement comes as the national government’s Foreign Investment Review Board continues to review the proposal for the Gulf carrier to take a 25% stake in Virgin Australia."

Politics muchly...

 

[Lucass]

There isn't, otherwise, it would be flown now by those same airlines.
So SIN-CBR, ADL-NRD/HND, ADL-SGN and CBR-HKG on a B737 max. Cool.
QR has used CBR to bypass the regulations that it can't get into another major port. These flights operated by QR from ADL, have about 20 passengers on them daily. Massive market.

We know Singapore and Cathay are in discussion with adleiade/canberra airport. That is a fact and has been confirmed. Also many airlines have limited aircraft and resources so, yes they are prioritising many other markets, but look how emirates just returned to Adelaide and China southern to adelaide. Just because they haven’t resumed flying yet, it doesn’t mean there isn’t a market.

 

[Lucass]

As reported on another site re: CBR

"And it’s perhaps no accident that this announcement comes as the national government’s Foreign Investment Review Board continues to review the proposal for the Gulf carrier to take a 25% stake in Virgin Australia."

Politics muchly...

Ok, cool that’s one example, they operated the flights pre-Covid anyway. Emirates also returns to adelaide so there are still unserved markets

 

[TheInsider]

Just because they haven’t resumed flying yet, it doesn’t mean there isn’t a market.

Once again you speak about VA, then the replies you get are related to VA. There is no market, nor aircraft, nor profit for VA to fly to and from any of those destinations on a B737 max. Nor on any 10 year old B787 aircraft ex QR.

 

[Harrison_133]

Yes there is. Cathy operated Adelaide to Hong Kong pre-Covid, Singapore airlines also operated Singapore-canberra, so yes there is a market for many of these routes.

The key word being operated for a reason (past tense). If those markets were viable, they would have directed capacity there already. Cathay have been "in talks" about a return to Adelaide for years now, yet nothing ever transpires.

Adelaide airport is also eying flights to Tokyo and canberra wants flights to Hong Kong and maybe Vietnam within next 5 years.

It's easy for airports to name points on a map they want services because they don't have to deal with the realities of actually operating those flights. It's not their bottom line being hurt by testing out these thin/marginal routes, the airline is taking on the brunt of that risk.

Ok, cool that’s one example, they operated the flights pre-Covid anyway. Emirates also returns to adelaide so there are still unserved markets

Emirates resuming ADL-Dubai is a very different beast to Virgin hypothetically starting a flight to Tokyo, or any of the other examples you listed. Emirates feeds over 100 destinations through their Dubai hub. Virgin would be relying heavily on O&D traffic as they have limited connection opportunities in Adelaide and their partnership with ANA isn't exactly close on the other end.

Any return to long haul flying would have to be centred around tried and tested markets served out of their core hubs of Brisbane, Melbourne or Sydney. Experimenting with marginal and unserved routes purely to avoid competition would be even more suicidal given the capital involved with starting and supporting widebody operations.

 

[Lucass]

Once again you speak about VA, then the replies you get are related to VA. There is no market, nor aircraft, nor profit for VA to fly to and from any of those destinations on a B737 max. Nor on any 10 year old B787 aircraft ex QR.

Why?

 

[elanshin]

We know Singapore and Cathay are in discussion with adleiade/canberra airport. That is a fact and has been confirmed. Also many airlines have limited aircraft and resources so, yes they are prioritising many other markets, but look how emirates just returned to Adelaide and China southern to adelaide. Just because they haven’t resumed flying yet, it doesn’t mean there isn’t a market.

So firstly consider Singapore.

It is currently without a doubt the biggest partner asset Velocity has. If VA is to look to fly from any city to Singapore, they would most certainly need SIA groups blessings before they do it. How that goes - who knows.
Also there's very few city that SQ isn't flying into right now.
You start a fight with SQ, you're literally biting the hand that feeds you.

Hong Kong is not a city with demand now like it was precovid. Various political factors have massively transformed the demand to Hong Kong. Also it's not one for VA to consider as they have minimal partners to work with once you get there as a transfer option. This is vastly different to Qantas or Cathay flying into HK as they can connect onwards. So it has to be point to point demand and sadly theres very little demand now. (Also just for reference I think even QF struggles against Cathay's influence and branding to HK. Lot's of loyalty to Cathay for people regularly going to HK).

So really it has to be places like Hanoi, coughet, Bangkok with the 737. And then begs the question, if VA looks to do that, why can't QF group look at that and go cool, lets also fly on JQ on that route with the 787 and absolutely crush it. Or Scoot for that matter.

It's very difficult for VA to break out into any sector right now even if we were to assume their financial situation is sound and they're in a position to expand (which they're not).

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Not forgetting the CNS - HND VAi flights.
Didnt last long.
Maybe best to leave the (ultra) long haul to partners, and VA does what it does now, ie just VAd.
Seeing Rex intercapital city(cities) experiment were a flop, that leaves only VAd as an option to QFd and JQd.
At the least, VA only has the MNL call center, and not any more to deal with.
Have called once or twice, to make a comfort seat booking, good service overall.

 

[justinbrett]

At this point all of the answers have been given but the same questions keep being asked.

Just going around in circles.

 

[twinaisle]

At this point all of the answers have been given but the same questions keep being asked.

Just going around in circles.

I'm surprised y'all are entertaining he/she/her/him/they/them.

 

[Lucass]

At this point all of the answers have been given but the same questions keep being asked.

Just going around in circles.

Ok I appreciate all the answers and I won’t discuss anymore

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 10:25 PM

I'm surprised y'all are entertaining he/she/her/him/they/them.

I won’t discuss anymore, I apologise

 

[Himeno]

Ok, cool that’s one example, they operated the flights pre-Covid anyway. Emirates also returns to adelaide so there are still unserved markets

QR operated a DOH-SYD-CBR flight pre covid in order to get around the limits in the air service agreement and access an extra 7 flights to the major ports allowed by the agreement where the flight continued to an unlimited "regional" port.
Post covid, the flight was to run DOH-MEL-CBR (again to get around the flight limit, this time with MEL flights instead of SYD) and was about to restart when they had some sort of issue with ground handling in CBR and shifted the flight to ADL.
SQ operated a SIN-SYD-CBR-SIN flight in order to get a late night departure, pre curfew, out of SYD and not arrive in SIN at 3am (a poor arrival time for onward connections). Prior to that, they attempted a SIN-CBR-WLG route, which didn't work for them.

Canberra Airport has tried to get new long haul routes started for years. They are always talking to airlines to get new routes going. The airport wants new airlines and new routes to make money on the resulting fees. Most airlines don't want to, they've seen many other flights already fail and be withdrawn a short time later.
Outside of airlines playing games (like QR) and trying to get around limits in air service agreements, the most CBR might end up getting are 737/A320 flights to New Zealand or other Pacific Island nations or A220 flights to SIN. (Unless of course there is a massive population boom in the region and Canberra and the nearby parts of NSW)