Virgin Australia Delays/Cancellations

[henrus]

This morning arriving VA8 (VH-VPH) from LAX (27/06/2018) to BNE (29/06/2018) diverted to OOL due to the fog.

It landed on the Gold Coast at 5:25am (around the normal time it should have arrived in Brisbane). Passengers were kept on the plane for 4 hours with the anticipation of flying up to Brisbane. The crew then timed out so pax cleared immigration on the Gold Coast and were bussed to Brisbane.

A new crew were sent from Brisbane to the Gold Coast to operate a flight from OOL to BNE as VA9931 which left the Gold Coast at 1:01pm arriving Brisbane at 1:25pm. The flight back to LAX then left Brisbane at 3:45pm (usual time 11:05am) and is expected to land into LAX at 11:15am (around 4 hours and 5 minutes late).

 

[Melburnian1]

Also on Friday 29 June 2018, VA742, the 1400 hours that took off at a very late 1818 (B738 VH-YFH) should arrive at 2026 hours tonight, 241 late.

VA866, the 1700 hours late afternoon from SYD to MEL with B738 VH-VBY did not become airborne until 2058, so arrival is at 2212 hours, 217 minutes behind the schedule.

 

[Melburnian1]

B738 VH-VUY on VA1382 (2100 hours mid evening MEL - LST) took off at 2305, almost two hours late on 29 June.

 

[Melburnian1]

The last day of 2017-18 financial year has VA116 (timetabled early morning 0610 hours skiers' special from BNE across to ZQN) still taxiing at 0909. Aircraft B738 VH-YIY is expected to arrive at 1417 this arvo, 157 late.

VA1576, the 0700 DRW down to ASP (F100 VH-FNU) was airborne at 0855 so likely arrival is 1053 hours, 113 minutes behind schedule.

 

[Melburnian1]

VA327 (Saturday 20 June 2018, the timetabled 1200 'high noon' MEL - BNE that was in the air at 1320) should arrive at 1509, 59 minutes tardy with B738 VH-YIB.

 

[Melburnian1]

The PER - BNE VA469 (VH-YFW) should arrive on Saturday 30 June 2018 at 1951, 41 minutes late.

The Mt Agung volcano eruption situation has caused many changed (and some cancelled) DOS flights. VA41, the 0605 hours BNE - DPS took off at 1719, about 11 hours late. It ought arrive at 2153 hours instead of 1040, so based on Australian east coast local time it will have spanned two financial years.

 

[Melburnian1]

VA87, the 1000 hours Sunday 1 July 2018 MEL - HKG (VH-XZD) took off at 1141 so arrival is expected as 1904 tonight, 84 minutes tardy. VA86, the 1950 hours returning overnight flight may be able to depart from around the 2020 mark.

 

[Melburnian1]

Later on Sunday 1 July 2018, VA1460 from DRW down to MEL, the 1255 hours that was in the sky at 1556 with B738 VH-VUA should arrive at 2025 hours, 165 minutes late.

VA242, the 1905 hours ADL to MEL has B738 VH-YFY and should arrive at 2125 tonight, half an hour past the allotted.

A332 VH-XFE is the 1725 from PER across to MEL that was in the sky at 1803. Arrival has been predicted as 2333 tonight, 38 late.

 

[Tremere]

Bit of carnage for VA at SYD tonight, multiple flights to Canberra and Melbourne cancelled.

From VA847 I ended up on 1536 to Hobart and am waiting for VA1337 back to MEL.
Rather annoyingly the first I heard was when the gate board said "Cancelled" at 4:30pm or so, nothing on the Virgin website or notifications until after I had the new BP's in hand.

It took quite a while for the service staff to reissue boarding passes (5-10 min per pax), the agent was wondering why "my ticket was so strange" (he had to "reissue" the whole thing), asking "did a TA issue it"? (Nope, VA website, but used a voucher from my Virgin CC + EconomyX for sectors, which I now have to hassle them for a refund)

 

[Melburnian1]

Bit of carnage for VA at SYD tonight, multiple flights to Canberra and Melbourne cancelled.

,,,From VA847 I ended up on 1537 to Hobart and am waiting for VA1337 back to MEL....

Tremere, great report.. I believe VA1537 is a northbound HBA up to SYD so I suspect you were initially on VA1536 that arrived at the HBA gate at around 2002 hours on Sunday 1 July.

Poor that it took '5-10 mins' to reissue boarding pass(es.) Not very productive. We could all manually write these more quickly!

VA1337 is the 2145 hours from HBA to MEL with arrival timetabled at 2300 tonight. Our contributor will be a little late as B738 VH-YFR is on VA1332, the 1950 hours ex MEL that took off at 2021 with arrival suggested as 2129 hours, 24 minutes late. This plane should then form VA1337.

A long trip for Tremere.

 

[Tremere]

Tremere, great report.. I believe VA1537 is a northbound HBA up to SYD so I suspect you were initially on VA1536 that arrived at the HBA gate at around 2002 hours on Sunday 1 July.

Indeed you are right, it was 1536. 1537 just pushed back at HBA.

 

[jpp42]

I was on VA 806 on 28 June which was delayed significantly by fog (6:45/8:20 scheduled, about 7:30/10:15 actual). We spent about an hour in a holding pattern near Albury waiting on the fog to lift. I checked flightaware afterwards and noticed that all Virgin flights were cancelled or delayed around this time (some mentioned earlier in this thread), but nearly all Qantas flights landed on time. I am assuming this has to to wit the Cat-III ILS that exists at MEL and Qantas' ability to use it. Why does Virgin continue to resist getting its planes and pilots certified for CAT-III, RNP, etc.? I know there are costs but surely the cost of all the holding, diversions, fallout from cancelled flights, etc., add up as well. I was 2 hours late to a business function - which I wouldn't have been on Qantas. I know I will reconsider using VA for time critical flights in the future.

 

[Melburnian1]

jpp42, excellent technical discussion but unfortunately QF were also late on 28 June 2018 from SYD to MEL (altrhough I did not record earlier flights that day, these can be seen on FR42 and other such sites.)

The real comparison you should make is with international high speed rail, as on such a day if we had a route from SYD - CBR - MEL in line with international practice 99 per cent of trains would be highly likely to be on time.

Here is an extract from some QF delays I discussed on that day:

Fog in MEL is hindering timekeeping on the morning of Thursday 28 June 2018.

B738 VH-XZM on QF461, the 0845 hours SYD - MEL was held over the Snowy Mountains and then Mt Buller so arrival is suggested as 1121 hours, 61 late.

QF811 (B738 VH-VYG, the 0945 hours mid morning CBR down to MEL that took off about 15 late at 1015 was held en route above the same two locations as QF461, so 811 should arrive at 1147, 52 minutes late. To add an extra 50 per cent to the timetable with these holds shows how poorly MEL copes with adverse weather.

VH-XZD on QF419, the 0900 hours SYD - MEL is similarly afflicted with arrival suggested as about 1152 hours, 77 late.

QF471 (VH-BVXM, the 0915 hours SYD down to MEL that took off at 1009 emerged from its Mt Buller hold at about 1138 so arrival is probable at 1201, 71 late.

Colleague B738 VH-VZZ on QF421, the 0930 hours southbound remained in a Mt Buller holding pattern at 1137 hours so its scheduled arrival at gate of 1105 is likely to be post-1205.

 

[Melburnian1]

BH738 VH-VUC on VA820 (scheduled 0830 hours from SYD down to MEL, Tuesday 3 July) was airborne at 0902. Witrh a hold above Mt Buller slowing it, arrival should be at 1041 hours, 36 late.

 

[AviatorInsight]

I was on VA 806 on 28 June which was delayed significantly by fog (6:45/8:20 scheduled, about 7:30/10:15 actual). We spent about an hour in a holding pattern near Albury waiting on the fog to lift. I checked flightaware afterwards and noticed that all Virgin flights were cancelled or delayed around this time (some mentioned earlier in this thread), but nearly all Qantas flights landed on time. I am assuming this has to to wit the Cat-III ILS that exists at MEL and Qantas' ability to use it. Why does Virgin continue to resist getting its planes and pilots certified for CAT-III, RNP, etc.? I know there are costs but surely the cost of all the holding, diversions, fallout from cancelled flights, etc., add up as well. I was 2 hours late to a business function - which I wouldn't have been on Qantas. I know I will reconsider using VA for time critical flights in the future.

Actually, Virgin are getting all its crews low vis ops certified. So they're not resisting at all. Everyone who has a B737 endorsement is RNP qualified when they transition into the Virgin Check and Training system.

I'm currently low vis take off certified but not low vis landing. With about 1500 pilots and only 3 simulators available, it will take some time to get qualified. It also depends on the capability of the aircraft. Some aircraft have higher degradation systems (i.e. all the new ones) and so are capable of CAT III. The older ones are only good for CAT II. So depending on the aircraft as well it may be that it simply can't do CAT III even though the crew might be able to.

The good thing about this is that you do have a choice. It's just the way it happens unfortunately. We have actually been able to get in to a couple of ports without holding while some QF aircraft have been required to divert so you just never know!

*Out of 365 days in the year fog is mainly in the months between May and August. Out of those days Canberra has the highest amount of fog at 47 per year, with 29 being between the winter months. Brisbane has on average 20 days of fog per year. (Melbourne didn't even get a mention!)

* Statistics from the 2012 ABS Climate Year Book.

 

[Melburnian1]

...*Out of 365 days in the year fog is mainly in the months between May and August. Out of those days Canberra has the highest amount of fog at 47 per year, with 29 being between the winter months. Brisbane has on average 20 days of fog per year. (Melbourne didn't even get a mention!)...

So far this year from memory MEL has had about six days when fog has badly interrupted aviation operations. There was even one day in summer if my memory is correct.

PER can also suffer from fog, although I don't monitor it enough always to notice (apologies.) ADL also if I recall had a recent morning of delays due to fog. As we've seen recently, SYD is not immune.

From reading highly technical BOM articles, it seems that the correct forecasting of some fog types remains extremely difficult if one reads between the lines (although those of us whose skills are in areas other than science find the terminology challenging - not a subject I've ever warmed to.)

The yet to be built Badgery's Creek airport may be worse affected than SYD - time will tell - and AVV can also be fog-prone.

 

[Melburnian1]

North winds gusting to 50kmh have been the case on Tuesday 3 July 2018 in MEL. VA219, the morning 10-05 hours MEL - ADL took off at 1115 with B738 VH-VUI. Arrival at the expected 1151 will be 51 late.

Not far behind is VA679, the scheduled 0915 hours MEL - PER (the very welcome A332 VH-XFJ) that was worse affected, taking off at 119 for a suggested arrival 95 late at 1310 this afternoon.

VA321 (1000 hours MEL up to BNE, VH-YFW) was in the sky at 1101 so arrival looks to be 1246 hours, 36 minutes tardy.

 

[jpp42]

Actually, Virgin are getting all its crews low vis ops certified. So they're not resisting at all. Everyone who has a B737 endorsement is RNP qualified when they transition into the Virgin Check and Training system.

Thanks, good to know. The flight I was on didn't have wifi so it definitely wasn't one of the newest B737's.

PER can also suffer from fog, although I don't monitor it enough always to notice (apologies.) ADL also if I recall had a recent morning of delays due to fog. As we've seen recently, SYD is not immune.

Perth and Sydney have more days of fog than Melbourne, yet neither has a Cat-III ILS to my understanding. I don't understand this at all, especially given Perth's isolation and lack of alternatives with different weather nearby (airlines have to carry either Learmonth or Adelaide as alternates).

 

[Melburnian1]

VA1261, the 3 July scheduled 1045 hours BNE up to EMD (F70 VH-QQY) was in the sky at 1236 hours. Projected 1347 hours arrival will be 92 minutes late.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Perth and Sydney have more days of fog than Melbourne, yet neither has a Cat-III ILS to my understanding. I don't understand this at all, especially given Perth's isolation and lack of alternatives with different weather nearby (airlines have to carry either Learmonth or Adelaide as alternates).

PER has CAT IIIB onto runway 21. It all comes down to cost. So there’s a new approach in effect in Australia which only special aircrew and operators are allowed to conduct (Virgin are one of these), and allows us to conduct an autoland off CAT I or CAT II

Also, bigger aircraft may be able to carry those alternates, but our trusty 737 may not make it with a full load of pax so we carry Geraldton or Kalgoorlie as a standard.