Virgin Australia Delays/Cancellations

[AviatorInsight]

VA 1323 sitting on the ground in HBA, Fully loaded, now 20 min post scheduled departure. One of the pilots standing in the gallery talking to FA, door open. Has said strong winds in MEL to blame, late inbound to HBA. But we boarded almost on time and now just sitting.

25 min post scheduled departure, same condition.

Strong northerly breeze into MEL (up to 30kts) means they’re only using one runway. This will mean that aircraft will have a new calculated off blocks time from ATC to avoid airborne delays.

Hopefully you got going soon after.

 

[RooFlyer]

Yeah that's what I figured, but that's not what we were told. I know, trivial thing, but I'm always puzzled why they can't say the actual reason : " we are being limited by ATC for our arrival in Melbourne so we'll have to wait a while until we can push back"

Same plane for my onward leg as the one into MEL, so no drama

 

[Melburnian1]

...that's not what we were told. I know, trivial thing, but I'm always puzzled why they can't say the actual reason : " we are being limited by ATC for our arrival in Melbourne so we'll have to wait a while until we can push back"....

VA needs to learn from countries like Philippines where it is common for ATC to hold planes on the ground for a 'controlled departure.' Every time, pilots or second officers inform passengers and say when the revised 'off blocks' time is.

Like you, I don't see what the problem is in informing travellers. Since it's not VA's "fault", it should be even easier to state over the PA.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Yeah that's what I figured, but that's not what we were told. I know, trivial thing, but I'm always puzzled why they can't say the actual reason : " we are being limited by ATC for our arrival in Melbourne so we'll have to wait a while until we can push back"

Same plane for my onward leg as the one into MEL, so no drama

Really? What was the reason given?

Some captains still insist on boarding early in the hope that the off blocks time will come in and we’ll be able to go earlier, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. But in any case I agree that the pax should be told the truth.

 

[Melburnian1]

On Friday 8 June 2018, the ADL - MEL VA206 (B738 VH-VUJ did not take off until 0716, 41 minutes past its pushback time, so arrival in MEL (not helped by having to hold over Warracknabeal) should be at 0919, 54 late.

The AKL - MEL VA164 (VH-YIQ) is just ahead of it with arrival at 0916, 36 late.

VA806 from SYD down to MEL is in a similar boat with B738 VH-VUZ likely to arrive at 0921 hours, 61 late.

Another SYD - MEL, the 0715 hours VA810 took off at 0753 (about 25 late, B738 VH-YWA) and with congestion in MEL and wintry weather took the 'scenic route' via a dogleg past Jindabyne with arrival predicted at 0939, 49 late.

VA812, the 0730 hours took off at 0808. VH-YFQ should be at its southern capital allocated gate at roughly 0950 hours, 45 late.

Compare this loss of time on our busiest by far domestic airlines route (consistently in the top four worldwide) with the unrivalled punctuality and excellent CBD to CBD times that other countries now enjoy with high speed rail. We're just so far behind in Australia.

VH-YFE on VA814, the 0745 hours SYD - MEL that was in the sky at 0841 should arrive at 1010, 50 late.

The 0630 hours OOL - MEL (VA726, taking off at 0708 with VH-YID) is arriving at 0950 hours, 55 late. VA408 from BNE is not far behind with B738 VH-YFX likely to be at its destination gate at 0955, 35 late.

VA917 (0800 hours SYD - BNE, B738 VH-VUE) took off at a very late 0927 hours so likely arrival is 73 late at 1043 this morning.

 

[Melburnian1]

Continuing with Friday 8 June 2018, VA367, the 0850 hours BNE up to TSV took off at 0943. B738 VH-VUK should arrive at 1146 hours, 51 minutes tardy.

 

[Melburnian1]

In more on Friday 8 June 2018, VA337, the 1600 hours MEL to BNE that took off at 1700 (B738 VH-YID) should arrive at 1847 in the early evening, 37 minutes behind time.

Far worse is VA1594, the 1425 hours mid arvo NTL - MEL with B738 VH-VOK. It took off at 1703 so its projected 1833 hours arrival will be 153 minutes late. After arriving from BNE in MEL lastnight at 2135, VA1593 (to NTL) was the first flight operated today by this aircraft, taking off at 1505 against a timetabled 1215 pushback. Perhaps this aircraft was pushed into service quickly when another failed, as from the looks of FR24 it had been rostered to run VA9909 from MEL to CBR at 1300 hours, but that was cancelled.

One oddity is that VA tends to release the flight rosters for its fleet a few days in advance to FR24 (unlike for instance QF) but this, while interesting and very welcome doesn't always become reality as aircraft often get swapped.

 

[Must...Fly!]

One oddity is that VA tends to release the flight rosters for its fleet a few days in advance to FR24 (unlike for instance QF) but this, while interesting and very welcome doesn't always become reality as aircraft often get swapped.

I've wondered about that but I can only assume it's another Sabre quirk. It's quite fun to see, though.

 

[AviatorInsight]

I've wondered about that but I can only assume it's another Sabre quirk. It's quite fun to see, though.

Annoying for us doing multiple sector days though!

 

[RooFlyer]

Really? What was the reason given?

Some captains still insist on boarding early in the hope that the off blocks time will come in and we’ll be able to go earlier, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. But in any case I agree that the pax should be told the truth.

Reason given for delayed departure was ' late inbound flight'. But that was obviously not the case as one of the pilots was chatting in the galley immediately afterwards. We weren't going anywhere at least for a while.

Anyway I should have quit while I was ahead. My flight tonight ADL-MEL was cancelled and I am rebooked to a flight tomorrow.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Annoying for us doing multiple sector days though!

May I ask why? (or are you referring to a rego-swap being annoying, in which case most certainly!)

 

[Must...Fly!]

To the above, the rego's being in in advance do serve the curious among us, confirming the jigsaw puzzles I construct in my mind!

-XFE was late leaving MEL this morning as VA87 to HKG. It arrived on time ex-HKG as VA86 on Friday morning, so presumably something went tech. It departed at 12:08, arriving 19:49 in lieu of a scheduled 17:40.

VA86 on Friday evening, a scheduled 19:50 departure, turned to depart at 22:20, and is due in to Melbourne at 09:30ish, in lieu of a 07:20 arrival.

Virgin Australia has a relatively small fleet of A330s, but Hong Kong is an ideal destination for them as they can turn one aircraft around each day in each port, thereby providing a daily service using only one frame. However, where this comes unstuck is if a significant delay comes in. As there is an allotted turnaround of 2hrs 40mins in MEL and 2hrs 10mins in HKG, it's very difficult to catch up more than an hours lost time within 24 hours. Especially so in two rather constrained airports.

Indeed, trying to catch up over 2 hours lost time would require some extremely fancy footwork. You'd probably never get it done, truth be told. Normally this would require a substitution on the domestic network for at least two sectors, as an A330 is pulled from transcon and picks up the slack to HKG. This frame could then continue the HKG rotation per normal, or they could choose to return the original A330 the following day, after sitting on the ground (or a return PER, if the tech issue fixed in time).

All that said, if ever there was a day when you would want something like this to happen, it's Friday. This is because Saturday is normally a day off for the A330s (excluding peak times when NAN is A330), as they are surplus to demand. Given a return HKG trip is timetabled at 21hrs 20mins from off blocks to on ground, it can be departing for PER (or wherever else) by around 10:30 following arriving from HKG.

I can't say for sure if a transcon flight tomorrow or early Sunday was or wasn't downgraded, but by the time -XFE lands in MEL on Saturday, -XFH should be close enough to fully boarded and ready to go to HKG. -XFE will then reappear on Sunday morning's VA87, while -XFH does a SYD return on Sunday afternoon following it's arrival from HKG, and then jets off across to PER.

 

[Melburnian1]

...-XFE was late leaving MEL this morning as VA87 to HKG. It arrived on time ex-HKG as VA86 on Friday morning, so presumably something went tech. It departed at 12:08, arriving 19:49 in lieu of a scheduled 17:40.

VA86 on Friday evening, a scheduled 19:50 departure, turned to depart at 22:20, and is due in to Melbourne at 09:30ish, in lieu of a 07:20 arrival.

However, where this comes unstuck is if a significant delay comes in. As there is an allotted turnaround of 2hrs 40mins in MEL and 2hrs 10mins in HKG, it's very difficult to catch up more than an hours lost time within 24 hours. Especially so in two rather constrained airports.

Indeed, trying to catch up over 2 hours lost time would require some extremely fancy footwork.Given a return HKG trip is timetabled at 21hrs 20mins from off blocks to on ground

Must...Fly!, thank you.

Can't disagree with much as HKG is slot constrained so that may account for the less than optimum two and a half hour turnaround there for VA87 to VA86.

Flying time (not block time) for VA86 HKG - MEL in the past few days has varied from 8 hrs 41 min to 9 hrs 22 min while VA87 MEL - HKG has varied from 8 hrs 36 min to 9 hrs 34, the latter probably because HKG becomes even busier from 1730 hours most days if I recall.

So on this morning's VA86, it's only going to gain a maximum of 15 minutes on the timetable, gate to gate (block time.)

That said, there should be scope to reduce a turnaround in MEL to ideally 80 minutes, which in itself is an immediate gain for a 24 hour operation of an hour and 20 minutes.. I'm not factoring in potential problems such as a gate in MEL being unavailable (only had this happen once, not on VA, but others report it occurs more, especially in winter), and then, negating any 80 minute turnaround, a longer than expected wait for ATC to give taxi/takeoff clearance, but 80 minutes 'reversing' ought be achievable with this size aircraft.

In the last ten days, one very late QF23 A333 turned around in BKK in 73 minutes, the best I've observed, but perhaps an outlier result as statisticians would say.

 

[AviatorInsight]

May I ask why? (or are you referring to a rego-swap being annoying, in which case most certainly!)

Basically when they can’t keep us in the same aircraft it’s a pain to pack up the office, run to another gate, set up the new office (new security checks, adjust new seating position, check the maintenance book etc), all in 45mins.

 

[Melburnian1]

....run to another gate...all in 45mins.

Aviator, please don't have a coronary. We benefit from your good humour, operating knowledge and tidbits. I have this image of you as a charming individual and an enjoyable bloke with whom to have a sherbet.

If you were at a Melbourne CBD railway station, automated announcements would lecture you about not running (operator scared of rapacious lawyers...) At Melbourne Airport, no time for that as too much Mandarin over the PA (at least in 'i' not 'd.')

 

[Must...Fly!]

Basically when they can’t keep us in the same aircraft it’s a pain to pack up the office, run to another gate, set up the new office (new security checks, adjust new seating position, check the maintenance book etc), all in 45mins.

Ah right, as suspected . It's always the preference to keep you in the same aircraft, all else being equal (in an airline? ha!)

 

[AviatorInsight]

Aviator, please don't have a coronary. We benefit from your good humour, operating knowledge and tidbits. I have this image of you as a charming individual and an enjoyable bloke with whom to have a sherbet.

If you were at a Melbourne CBD railway station, automated announcements would lecture you about not running (operator scared of rapacious lawyers...) At Melbourne Airport, no time for that as too much Mandarin over the PA (at least in 'i' not 'd.')

I can assure you my health is in perfect working order and appreciate the comments. Perhaps once I get a layover long enough, would definitely try and take you up on that sherbet. However it's some of the captains that I have to worry about .

Also I can tell I must be getting good at switching aircraft because of all the flights that you post on here hardly any of them are mine!

 

[AviatorInsight]

Ah right, as suspected . It's always the preference to keep you in the same aircraft, all else being equal (in an airline? ha!)

And I definitely do appreciate the work that AMCO have to comply with everyday. Luckily for me I've perfected the art of playing musical chairs.

 

[Must...Fly!]

And I definitely do appreciate the work that AMCO have to comply with everyday. Luckily for me I've perfected the art of playing musical chairs.

For those who don't know, an AMCO is a position at Virgin Australia fulfilled by ground crew (Airport Movement Coordinator). They essentially are a communication and airport ops hub. They play many roles, but probably most importantly (as I see it) are the liaison between the main operations centre and the airport and aircraft, ensuring everything that each person needs to know about, knows. If there are specific questions, I may be able to assist with an answer. However I have been out of that job for several years so likely...rusty.

 

[Melburnian1]

For those who don't know, an AMCO is a position at Virgin Australia fulfilled by ground crew (Airport Movement Coordinator)....

One question is when say there's bad weather in MEL and lots of flights are delayed (say for simplicity ex SYD) and the airline knows for instance that in the next hour two aircraft are meant to depart MEL back to SYD but there's only a total of 150 passengers booked (and a similar number on other flights at the other end), who makes the decision "which flight" to cancel?

If it's really sudden event - a storm whose intensity wasn't well predicted by BOM, say - does the software then spit out the best possible rejigging of aircraft, and recommend flight cancellations, or is this done manually?

And how does the AMCO ensure that staff such as cabin crew know (when there's sudden changes) which aircraft they're next on? What if they can't continue with their agreed roster, and this affects an overnight stay in an 'outstation?' Does he let them know or does that occur later in the day?