Virgin Australia Financially Secure? [Now in Voluntary Administration]

[jakeseven7]

REX can barely turn a profit on monopoly government supported markets.

If Alliance had announced something like this, I'd have probably paid attention.

Weren't REX screaming about being bankrupt within days about 6 weeks ago?

QF own 20% of Alliance, so we would have 3 QF 'group' airlines running against Rex and *maybe* VA2

Jokes!

 

[TheInsider]

If you haven't applied for a refund on future flights, my humble suggestion is to contact VA - as credit card issuers and banks require you to do - and then, after a short time if no joy with VA, get in touch with your bank and request a chargeback.

Then you have people in other online forums scaring people off from doing a chargeback by saying the airline 'would ban you'.

 

[Melburnian1]

...I’m dreading many job keeper supported jobs turning into redundancies across multiple industries post Covid. I think it’ll be a while for many Australians who have been economically affected to regain confidence in their spending.

That's the problem! It isn't just those who have lost jobs, retirees with lower dividend income due to sharemarket and/or property market (including rentals) decline, or who run businesses where earnings have slumped and so 'drawings' to proprietors or dividends are lower.

It's also the otherwise unaffected who perceive it's not the right time to spend, or in some cases are scared of travelling due to fears of catching the virus in the absence of a vaccine.

So unlikely to be back to normality for QFd or, if it survives (I don't think so), VAd.

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2020

Then you have people in other online forums scaring people off from doing a chargeback by saying the airline 'would ban you'.

Isn't that immaterial given that any 'new VA' would have different owners?

 

[jakeseven7]

India's counterpart which also trades under the name 'IndiGo' is understood to have been mulling to throw in a last minute for VAH.

Like their American namesakes, India's IndiGo also wants to revert VA 2.0 to its LCC roots, initially concentrating as a domestic-only LCC.

Indian airline wants to take Virgin Australia back to low-cost roots

Low-cost Indian juggernaut IndiGo is running the numbers on a Virgin Australia take-over.

www.executivetraveller.com

And we thought a possible Frontier takeover of VA1 was going to be bad.

Shudders.

 

[TheInsider]

Isn't that immaterial given that any 'new VA' would have different owners?

Of course it is, but you still have people scaring other people off by saying this nonsense.

Personally if they were holding my money, i'd be doing that charge-back ASAP.

 

[jakeseven7]

Of course it is, but you still have people scaring other people off by saying this nonsense.

Personally if they were holding my money, i'd be doing that charge-back ASAP.

I completely agree and that is what I've been telling anyone, my boss was successful getting a big chunk of change back from VA using this method. The company is in voluntary administration for gods sake, VA2 will be a different beast if it even emerges.

 

[Melburnian1]

I completely agree and that is what I've been telling anyone, my boss was successful getting a big chunk of change back from VA using this method. The company is in voluntary administration for gods sake, VA2 will be a different beast if it even emerges.

Well done. Irrespective of the sector, companies must learn that if they don't provide a good or service and it's not just the consumer or passenger having a 'change of mind', a refund is due in accordance with consumer law. Mind you, ACCC muddied the waters somewhat re its airline fares pronouncements, and then there was the special case of the supermarkets denying refunds to those who'd bought large quantities of toilet paper and the like but failed to sell it on EBay,

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2020

..Personally if they were holding my money, i'd be doing that charge-back ASAP.

But we have an obligation to firstly chat to the company and see what it'll do. If we go directly to the financial institution, that would be against the card issuers' terms and conditions as I understand it.

 

[jakeseven7]

Interesting if true but ‘ anonymous sources’ suggest VA1 management/Deloitte are proposing VA2 keeps flying to New Zealand, Bali, Fiji, Japan and LAX but dumps the rest.

Of course the new VA2 owners who’ll be the ones that decide what happens but interesting they still think a limited international network still has legs, especially Japan - which they have never flown to...

This also indicates that VA1/Deloitte are proposing to hang onto some of the 777 and A330 fleet as well I suppose.

I guess it’s up to the VA2 owners, I’m sure they have been doing their own homework with the data room access and a lot have indicated VA2 will be domestic only and possibly a no frills airline as well.

Unconditional offers due shortly let’s see how many punters actually REALLY kick the tires!

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[muppet]

Interesting if true but ‘ anonymous sources’ suggest VA1 management/Deloitte are proposing VA2 keeps flying to New Zealand, Bali, Fiji, Japan and LAX but dumps the rest.

Of course the new VA2 owners who’ll be the ones that decide what happens but interesting they still think a limited international network still has legs, especially Japan - which they have never flown to...

This also indicates that VA1/Deloitte are proposing to hang onto some of the 777 and A330 fleet as well I suppose.

I guess it’s up to the VA2 owners, I’m sure they have been doing their own homework with the data room access and a lot have indicated VA2 will be domestic only and possibly a no frills airline as well.

Unconditional offers due shortly let’s see how many punters actually REALLY kick the tires!

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Any new owner would be mad to give up AUS-US, that route is a gold mine and VAH has created a structure that lets foreign owners fly it!

Also, obviously the more of the network the new company maintains the lower the creditor bill is - VAH doesn't owe $1.8 billion to aircraft leasing companies if it is still honouring the leases, doesn't owe employee entitlements if they're still employed etc.

 

[dajop]

Any new owner would be mad to give up AUS-US, that route used to be is a gold mine and VAH has created a structure that lets foreign owners fly it!

Corrected to speak in past tense, rather than current tense. Even before COVID-19 took hold, in the most recent year or two, I am not sure, since competition on the route increased (more UA services, AA entering, QF adding destinations) it has been as lucrative as it once was. Although the 77W is, AFAIK, a good aircraft for freight.

 

[TheInsider]

Corrected to speak in past tense, rather than current tense. Even before COVID-19 took hold, in the most recent year or two, I am not sure, since competition on the route increased (more UA services, AA entering, QF adding destinations) it has been as lucrative as it once was. Although the 77W is, AFAIK, a good aircraft for freight.

VAs 777 aircraft are the worst type for freight.

 

[HS-TQE]

Also to add the Australia-USA route in a post COVID world would be a lot smaller than it was before COVID hit. Also considering VA and DL hadn't expanded services whilst UA and QF/AA has, that would've impacted the bottom line for the DL/VA camp on the Australia-LAX route.

There's also the potential that SYD-LAX may potentially become a QF/AA monopoly, taking into consideration the recent UA LAX long-haul crew closure (UA may want to save money by NOT deadheading crew/widebody aircraft to LAX just for the LAX-SYD route), and the questionable futures of both VA and DL on the SYD-LAX route post-COVID.

Post automatically merged: May 13, 2020

VAs 777 aircraft are the worst type for freight.

IIRC, only 2 of VA's 77Ws has the smaller cargo doors. The other 3 has the standard size cargo doors.

 

[TheInsider]

IIRC, only 2 of VA's 77Ws has the smaller cargo doors. The other 3 has the standard size cargo doors.

Possibly, but still remains being an inconsistent service for freight teams and companies to use the service.
It's like claiming to have a business friendly flight times with only 2-3 services a week.

 

[dajop]

Possibly, but still remains being an inconsistent service for freight teams and companies to use the service.
It's like claiming to have a business friendly flight times with only 2-3 services a week.

Although in theory, 3 aircraft are enough to run two daily services between Australia and the US, although in practice (due to the absence of passenger demand out of US to Australia departing in the middle of the day) means that 3 aircraft could provide a reliable daily service on one city pair only (using 2 of the 3 aircraft).

Anyway moot point, as I think the route will be difficult for anyone to make work for at least another 12 months.

 

[muppet]

I don’t disagree with any points made, but i will note that nobody considering buying this airline will be basing their decision on demand over the next 12 months (or they wouldn’t buy it).

As Buffett said, be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful.

 

[33kft]

As Buffett said, be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful.

Not sure he was suggesting buying insolvent airlines.

That said, perhaps the next buyer can make plenty of money out of buying VA1 at the bottom of the market, but it seems to be more the exception than the rule.

 

[jakeseven7]

Although in theory, 3 aircraft are enough to run two daily services between Australia and the US, although in practice (due to the absence of passenger demand out of US to Australia departing in the middle of the day) means that 3 aircraft could provide a reliable daily service on one city pair only (using 2 of the 3 aircraft).

Anyway moot point, as I think the route will be difficult for anyone to make work for at least another 12 months.

Exactly, the US is the epicentre of the covid breakout now and not making any moves that will arrest that. The can only *hope and pray* for a vaccine now.

So I think the US travel route would be highly useless to VA2 for an extended period, which is why I was surprised at the news story proposing on keeping it.... - so then - what do you do with the very heavy 777's until the US recovers?

 

[glasszon]

I don’t disagree with any points made, but i will note that nobody considering buying this airline will be basing their decision on demand over the next 12 months (or they wouldn’t buy it).

As Buffett said, be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful.

But even Buffett himself sold his Airline shares this year. It's one thing buying when others are fearful, but it's quite another when the viability of the whole industry is in question.

 

[RooFlyer]

Then you have people in other online forums scaring people off from doing a chargeback by saying the airline 'would ban you'.

Of course it is, but you still have people scaring other people off by saying this nonsense.

Personally if they were holding my money, i'd be doing that charge-back ASAP.

Speaking from personal experience, I assure you, and others, its not 'nonsense' - overseas airline's FF scheme, rather than airline.

But I too would still do a charge back to Virgin, without hesitating, if needs be.

 

[burmans]

But even Buffett himself sold his Airline shares this year. It's one thing buying when others are fearful, but it's quite another when the viability of the whole industry is in question.

Yes but he sold well and I wouldn’t rule out him buying back in later at distressed prices. As for viability, they are in for a couple of terrible years but I can pretty much guarantee that there will still be an airline industry when we do come out of this. People aren’t going to permanently stop flying.