Virgin Australia Financially Secure? [Now in Voluntary Administration]

[jakeseven7]

Virgin makes all Tigerair pilots redundant, and 1,000 staff

The Virgin Australia Group will make 1,000 of its 8,000 stood down employees permanently redundant, including all 220 Tigerair pilots.

australianaviation.com.au

VA fire 1000 people permanently.

I guess PS has been given the chance to really clean house and demonstrate he means business cleaning VA and TT up.

 

[flyingfan]

Does this mean Tigerair is definitely getting the chop? Whenever emerges after this won't include TT?

 

[HeavyElectricity]

I noticed on the VA coronavirus travel alert page, it says Tigerair passengers will be give Virgin Australia travel credit - makes it sound like Tiger won't be flying afterwards:

 

[hydrabyss]

Does this mean Tigerair is definitely getting the chop? Whenever emerges after this won't include TT?

PS was quoted saying the following

"We plan to return Tigerair Australia and Virgin Australia to the skies as soon as it is viable to do so. However, I am mindful that how we operate today may look different when we get to the other side of this crisis," Virgin Chief Executive Paul Scurrah said in a statement.

 

[clipped_wings]

PS was quoted saying the following "We plan to return Tigerair Australia and Virgin Australia to the skies as soon as it is viable to do so. However, I am mindful that how we operate today may look different when we get to the other side of this crisis," Virgin Chief Executive Paul Scurrah said in a statement.

What else could he say? None of us will be the same after this.

 

[dajop]

- Cease to exist

Some of which will be accelerated by people taking class actions against airlines to obtain cash refunds. Flyertalk is littered with stories of litigation already.

 

[hydrabyss]

Some of which will be accelerated by people taking class actions against airlines to obtain cash refunds. Flyertalk is littered with stories of litigation already.

Very sad when you hear things like this. My first concern is my older parents followed by the economy as a whole. Everything else can be acquired again.

 

[jase05]

Very sad when you hear things like this. My first concern is my older parents followed by the economy as a whole. Everything else can be acquired again.

Very sad but there are probably many people who are now jobless and have bills to pay so they need that money back from any holiday/flights etc they have booked.

 

[amaroo]

How many airlines will be left to sue? What a waste of time, and added stress.

 

[bcworld]

Very sad but there are probably many people who are now jobless and have bills to pay so they need that money back from any holiday/flights etc they have booked.

Exactly my thought on this. If someone wants a refund for a flight that isn't happening, they should get one. Many households are probably a microcosm of the travel industry right now. It is not their role to keep companies afloat in contradiction of the conditions of carriage they booked under.

 

[pauly7]

Exactly my thought on this. If someone wants a refund for a flight that isn't happening, they should get one. Many households are probably a microcosm of the travel industry right now. It is not their role to keep companies afloat in contradiction of the conditions of carriage they booked under.

Tough decisions everywhere at the moment. PS has now fired 1750 people since he started and stood down 7000.

And perhaps (some suspect) shuttered a brand as well.

 

[ja1]

Tough decisions everywhere at the moment. PS has now fired 1750 people since he started and stood down 7000.

And perhaps (some suspect) shuttered a brand as well.

That's what leadership is meant to be about. Not making popular decisions (Trump, Boris) but making the best decision you can make with the best available information at the time. PS should be looking after his ability to run as an ongoing business, his staff and his customers and from everything I've seen so far, VA are doing that.

I'm incredibly sad people are losing jobs, particulary in aviation but I really want to be able to fly VA after this is all done and dusted and PS is putting them in the best possible position to still be there.

However I am bemused by airlines (e.g. AirNZ) making public statements saying they will be different businesses in the future or be smaller in size. It seems so obvious that is the case for the next ~10 years.

However everyone is in the same condition.. there are no special advantages for a particular airline I can see.. It's simply too big and too far reaching an issue.

 

[ja1]

Very sad but there are probably many people who are now jobless and have bills to pay so they need that money back from any holiday/flights etc they have booked.

Good luck with litigation. This is a non-issue for the current time. What court is going to either have the time or be able to deal with any litigation related to this for the for seeable future ?

The costs of litigation to recover funds that for > 60% of trips are going to be less than $10K outweigh any possible return.

 

[bcworld]

Good luck with litigation. This is a non-issue for the current time. What court is going to either have the time or be able to deal with any litigation related to this for the for seeable future ?

The costs of litigation to recover funds that for > 60% of trips are going to be less than $10K outweigh any possible return.

Litigation isn't really necessary. Many seem to be finding credit card chargeback successful.

 

[ja1]

To get back to the topic of VA being financially secure..

- What does financially secure mean ?
- Still existing as a company that can provide services - in perhaps 3-6 months or as long as 12 months

- What are the early indicators of VA being financially secure in this context
- leadership making tough decisions - these are all clearly underway
- VAs ability and decision to pay the coupon on the bond notes due in April and May (8.25% interest rate!) or at the very least, transparency where they negotiate with the bondholders to defer interest payments. Simply missing the payment would be a really bad sign.
- Reporting on numbers in the next couple of quarters so the market and the customers have some idea of VA's position and their ability to use them and trust them.
- The government using them to move essential people around (much like firefighters were moved around during the bushfires - anyone remember those ? it was ages ago.. like.. 6-8 weeks!)

 

[pauly7]

That's what leadership is meant to be about. Not making popular decisions (Trump, Boris) but making the best decision you can make with the best available information at the time. PS should be looking after his ability to run as an ongoing business, his staff and his customers and from everything I've seen so far, VA are doing that.

I'm incredibly sad people are losing jobs, particulary in aviation but I really want to be able to fly VA after this is all done and dusted and PS is putting them in the best possible position to still be there.

However I am bemused by airlines (e.g. AirNZ) making public statements saying they will be different businesses in the future or be smaller in size. It seems so obvious that is the case for the next ~10 years.

I suspect Air NZ and VA are making those ‘we will be different / smaller in future’ to manage investor expectations but also to send a strong signal to their employees that they will not all be returning to a job (amongst other things).

I don’t think it will take 10 years for that though. Well I certainly hope not!

 

[ja1]

Litigation isn't really necessary. Many seem to be finding credit card chargeback successful.

I'm going to go with chargebacks will end up being a completely non material event for any of the airlines in the scheme of what is going on.

However with automation and CRms it will be interesting to see how the airline deals with the customer in the future when they try to rebook with said airline after having had a chargeback..

 

[ja1]

I suspect Air NZ and VA are making those ‘we will be different / smaller in future’ to manage investor expectations but also to send a strong signal to their employees that they will not all be returning to a job (amongst other things).

I don’t think it will take 10 years for that though. Well I certainly hope not!

I'm not saying it will take 10 years to get there.. we are there already. I'm saying it may take 10 years for any of the airlines just to get back to where they were 4 weeks ago. There is so much damage at so many points that unless this was resolved in 3 months (not going to happen!) that they will be throwing away years of work and having to start from scratch.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

AN (as in Ansett) was put into bankruptcy.
VA as yet, hasn't, not saying they won't be, if the shareholders/owners agree, then thats it, kaput.
But at this stage, VA is not in bankruptcy, so they can still fly if and when the Coronavirus is dealt with, or ever dealt with.
I would say, its a bit too early to pull the power plug on VA as yet.
Yes, I too did loose AN GlobalRewards points, and at this point, I do have about 20k in VA FF points.
Probably when they pull the plug, its too late to suck out my points, but so be it, 2nd time, if and when VA does go belly up, that I would loose points again.
I haven't got any bookings, but will still buy my items from Coles, and FB related stores, so still put my points to FB and VA FF till the ""lights go out"", but its not too dim as yet!
Edit: maybe this might be the new VA:
If and when they start flying again, we may again lose any meals on VA domestic flights of flight times of less than 2.5 hours, and only light meals on trans(Au)continental VA flights.

 

[ozstamps]

To get back to the topic of VA being financially secure..

- What does financially secure mean ?
- Still existing as a company that can provide services - in perhaps 3-6 months or as long as 12 months

- What are the early indicators of VA being financially secure in this context

- leadership making tough decisions - these are all clearly underway
- VAs ability and decision to pay the coupon on the bond notes due in April and May (8.25% interest rate!) or at the very least, transparency where they negotiate with the bondholders to defer interest payments. Simply missing the payment would be a really bad sign.
- Reporting on numbers in the next couple of quarters so the market and the customers have some idea of VA's position and their ability to use them and trust them.
- The government using them to move essential people around (much like firefighters were moved around during the bushfires - anyone remember those ? it was ages ago.. like.. 6-8 weeks!)

You kinda forgot the LEASE fees on 130 or whatever Tiger and Virgin parked planes - all in now payable in SUPER expensive USD.

Virgin and Tiger leases fees in 2020 will be about $A500 MILLION. (Qantas owns most aircraft and just got a $ BILLION line of credit on them - so they are safe)

Crippling airport fees for Terminal and lounges and office rent and facilities etc. You think privatised Airports are going to forgive those charges?

Plus the weekly wages for the ~1000 staff still there to fly a few planes about nationally.

All this for 3 to 6 MONTHS.

There is the money in the bank all gone right there.

All their partners are bleeding red ink in rivers of their own. They'll put nothing in. SQ just went and got a Fed handout there to stay afloat.

There is no Virgin anymore - sorry.

Sad - I'm a Plat and want it to be there as we all do, and this was not of their making but kiss it goodbye. Never forget - they were losing money BEFORE Corona hit.