Virgin Australia Financially Secure? [Now in Voluntary Administration]

[AIRwin]

I think it would be a good thing if Melbourne becomes a hub for VA

And there's already an office building leased to Tigerair...

 

[Franky]

Black Swans were in WA wern't they?

And still are last time I looked...

 

[tomlee1986]

And there's already an office building leased to Tigerair...

Then they can combine the 2 and increase the size of the hub of VA in Melbourne

 

[woodborer]

My understanding is that points in Velocity are held in a trust fund.

how can you hold points in a trust fund ? Thought it was only $$$ that can be held in trust ?

So, understanding things better now?

 

[Franky]

JobSeeker runs out in October

If not before...

 

[Franky]

My Bad!
Similar names but different programs.

However both run out in October with JobKeeper finishing and Job Seeker turning back into the ordinary $275 p/w dole.

Would need a further stimulus Bill to keep the extra $$ flowing after current funding ceases/is fully expended.

I beleive that is something we just cannot afford...

 

[Melburnian1]

I beleive that is something we just cannot afford...

Yes, someone has to eventually pay for it all.

 

[Rembrandt]

If the likes of JobKeeper and the boosted JobSeeker are required after October then we truly are about to enter a depression.

 

[bernardblack]

And the domestic terminal VA use in Melbourne is horrible

Really? I guess I've been consistently in the Lounge before my Virgin flights for the last few years, but I didn't think T3 was that bad.

On the other hand, the physical proximity of the terminals at MEL, and the ability to walk to connect dom/int and vv, is a huge plus over SYD and BNE and PER.

 

[antycbr]

Yes, someone has to eventually pay for it all.

You've got the reserve bank lending money to the government despite being part of the same government yet somehow it's not government debt? High finance makes no sense to me but that sounds remarkably Venezuelean to me... off topic anyway.

Really? I guess I've been consistently in the Lounge before my Virgin flights for the last few years, but I didn't think T3 was that bad.

On the other hand, the physical proximity of the terminals at MEL, and the ability to walk to connect dom/int and vv, is a huge plus over SYD and BNE and PER.

Perth VA was connected to INT, but QF remained over in the old DOM area. They're still planning to bring the terminals together with the new rail link. With so little domestic to international traffic on VA it wasnt of a lot of benefit.

Melbourne's main issue was that the lounge was landside and transit between gates in T4 to T3 or vice versa sucked. I also find the feeling very claustrophobic in the VA pier with a low roof, large amounts of retail and limited seating space compared to other equivalently sized terminals in BNE and SYD.

 

[westsurf]

As I haven’t read the whole thread I know if this has been noted but AFR is reporting that BGH capital, backed by Australian Super, is making a “Team Australia” bid for Virgin.

 

[jase05]

As I haven’t read the whole thread I know if this has been noted but AFR is reporting that BGH capital, backed by Australian Super, is making a “Team Australia” bid for Virgin.

Yet the super industry as a whole are seeking government help as they are concerned about the 460,000 people drawing down on their super

 

[RAM]

As I haven’t read the whole thread I know if this has been noted but AFR is reporting that BGH capital, backed by Australian Super, is making a “Team Australia” bid for Virgin.

With cash in super funds not falling in value (major positive since late Feb) it is often disparaginly refered to by the phrase "Cash is Trash" especially by managers who charge 0.3% to 1.0% for the money they manage in other asset classes for the super funds. With the cash rate set at 0.25% by the RBA - there's not much margin left to charge for managing cash...

Any buyer of VA gets a ready set up IT system, 8 million+ Velocity account holders (never under-estimate the value of big data - just ask Google), as well as trained staff who regularly rate highly in industry surveys. They'll also get bargained priced planes on lease (if they still want them).

Years ago, (sniff, sniff, decades really), the ACTU took the decision that the Industry Funds (80%+ effectively controlled by the ACTU) would become a modern-day equivalent of the old Mutual Insurance companies. The approach was to drive competitors (read service providers) out of business by constantly driving down what they got paid & poach the most talented individuals to set up their own operations. So now we have an industry fund backed wholesale consulting business, wholesale funds management business just to name the ones that are now 30 years old!

A bit, but not exactly, like the NRMA (car not insurance) operation buying a rental car company, caravan parks & holiday resorts as well as offering affinity discounts.

Normally the major Industry funds travel in packs so it would be odd if it was only AustralianSuper looking - they may just be the lead.

The industry funds created their own bank - ME Bank (google it!) amongst other JVs. With over 13 million 'unique' members (actual people not multiple accounts) if they did buy Virgin or perhaps lend money - then you'd expect them to offer their members a way to buy VA fares/holiday packages at a discount a bit like the 5% off Coles or Woolworths vouchers for example. Perhaps the ACTU & affiliated unions would become a VA-only flying customer (yes they fly a lot).

Just think about all the advertising you see for industry funds even currently. Very easy to add in a 6 second segment of fund members boarding a VA plane....

If they're involved then the debt holders would be lucky to get 30 cents in the dollar going from past efforts.

 

[muppet]

.....
Years ago, (sniff, sniff, decades really), the ACTU took the decision that the Industry Funds (80%+ effectively controlled by the ACTU) .......

Equal representation regulations require that workers and employers have equal representation on Industry Fund Boards.

Were those laws repealed?

 

[HS-TQE]

In summary according to a Reuters article.

Total debt of VAH: US$4.4B (AUS $6.9B )

Breakdown in AU$
$2.3B Secured Debt
$1.9B in aircraft leases
$450million - Staff Wages/Entitlements
$167million - Trade Creditors
$71million - Landlords (assuming Airport leases)
$2B Bonds

Source: Virgin Australia owes $4.4 billion to creditors, to seek waiver on aircraft leases: administrator

{Edit: Numbers switched and corrected).

 

[p--and--t]

In summary according to a Reuters article.

Total debt of VAH: US$6.9B (AUS $4.4B )

Source: Virgin Australia owes $4.4 billion to creditors, to seek waiver on aircraft leases: administrator

Slight correction right numbers, wrong currency AUD6.9B USD4.4B

Plus AUD2B bonds

 

[jetset]

Surely they'd reneg on their leases and release them at current market rates (if desired).
The administrator has the ability to do this, don't they?

 

[jase05]

Pardon my ignorance as this kind of stuff is well outside of my boundaries but are the major shareholders up for any of these debts or is their liability in all this effectively over?

 

[tomlee1986]

Pardon my ignorance as this kind of stuff is well outside of my boundaries but are the major shareholders up for any of these debts or is their liability in all this effectively over?

It is up to the unpaid shares they own (based on my limited accounting knowledge from University) - stand to be corrected if incorrect - but the directors will have more liability than shareholders if they are found to have breached the corporations act for insolvent trading or breaching the director's duties when in office

 

[jakeseven7]

As I haven’t read the whole thread I know if this has been noted but AFR is reporting that BGH capital, backed by Australian Super, is making a “Team Australia” bid for Virgin.

As a super fund member I want a lot of deadwood senior management at VA cleaned out as a condition of my support