Virgin Australia Light Fare Class

[Must...Fly!]

QF doing $799 return to LAX from BNE, SYD, MEL

Dates and details

so how do AA, UA, DL, VA, NZ & FJ respond to these fares ?

Coronavirus must be having a huge impact on new bookings. Many must be taking a wait & see approach.

More misinformation.

Those are ex-LAX prices in USD...

AC are offering under $800 AUD via one OTA (GoToGate...no idea how reliable they are) if you fancy flying via Vancouver with that airline...

Air Canada: Los Angeles Return from Melbourne $797, Brisbane $799, Sydney $799 (Mar-Sep) @ FlightScout

Deal: Air Canada: Los Angeles Return from Melbourne $797, Brisbane $799, Sydney $799 (Mar-Sep) @ FlightScout, Store: Flight Scout, Category: Travel

www.ozbargain.com.au

 

[ozfflyer]

More misinformation.

Those are ex-LAX prices in USD...

AC are offering under $800 AUD via one OTA (GoToGate...no idea how reliable they are) if you fancy flying via Vancouver with that airline...

Air Canada: Los Angeles Return from Melbourne $797, Brisbane $799, Sydney $799 (Mar-Sep) @ FlightScout

Deal: Air Canada: Los Angeles Return from Melbourne $797, Brisbane $799, Sydney $799 (Mar-Sep) @ FlightScout, Store: Flight Scout, Category: Travel

www.ozbargain.com.au

weird, I was on Australian Qantas site.

Did note a week or so ago it was USD$999.

Still if QF doing USD$799, what response have others made ?

Just had trouble signing into Qantas ff acc. The system wanted to send me a 6 digit code & had 10 mins to respond, but email took more than 10 mins to arrive.

Then going down other route, it wanted to ask me, when joined QF ff programme ? Who remembers that ?

Don't carry anymore plastic in wallet than need to.

Expect massive sales from all airlines right now in response to Coronavirus.

 

[ozfflyer]

They do have promotional fares but they are extremely limited.

If you take your reasoning further, then if they sold every fare for $1, yield would be increased.

A scenario of a basic 500 mile flight.

100 seats for sale, but only sold are the following;
5 at $30
10 at $50
50 at $100

65 seats sold, at a total revenue of $5650, and an average fare of $86.92. Revenue Passenger Miles is 65 x 500 = 32,500.

The yield is 5650/32500 = $0.174 cpm

Repeating the above, but forgetting about the "loss leader" $30 fares.

10 at $50
50 at $100

60 seats sold, at a total revenue of $5500, at an average fare of $91.67. Revenue Passenger Miles is 60 x 500 = 30,000.

This time, yield is 5500/30000 = $0.183 cpm

Lower revenue, lower load factor, higher average fare, higher yield.

This excludes costs which obviously need to be accounted for...yield on its own is not the best metric as it's hard to make comparisons without a lot of other data. But this was just to make the point.

as you state total revenue per flight is less without loss leader fares sold, so total yield per flight is less.

 

[Must...Fly!]

as you state total revenue per flight is less without loss leader fares sold, so total yield per flight is less.

Yield and revenue are different words that mean different things.

Both are meaningless without other metrics for context.

 

[Bagpuss]

I tend to think this new fare is the target fare for Sales which tend to be more and more frequent this days.
The restrictions around these fares are totally fine considering the current marketplace.
In truth, the 100% cancellation charge is fine. Ultimetly if you are travelling long haul you should have travel insurance so covered there.

 

[ozfflyer]

Yield and revenue are different words that mean different things.

Both are meaningless without other metrics for context.

yield per seat is meaningless if you don't take into account empty seats. So yield per flight is the important thing. Yield on empty seat is $0.

 

[Must...Fly!]

yield per seat is meaningless if you don't take into account empty seats. So yield per flight is the important thing. Yield on empty seat is $0.

Yield on an empty seat is not zero, because in mathematics that implies bringing down the average. In fact it does not exist, because yield only uses flown passenger miles, not available passenger miles.

The metric you are referring to is PRASM/PRASK (Passenger Revenue per Available Seat Mile/Kilometre) then.

This is also a meaningless metric on its own, as it does not account for costs.

 

[ozfflyer]

Yield on an empty seat is not zero, because in mathematics that implies bringing down the average. In fact it does not exist, because yield only uses flown passenger miles, not available passenger miles.

The metric you are referring to is PRASM/PRASK (Passenger Revenue per Available Seat Mile/Kilometre) then.

This is also a meaningless metric on its own, as it does not account for costs.

don't think you understand.

It's very basic.

If an airline can't fill its seat, at or above costs, then it might have to sell some at a lost, but is better than those seats going empty. Bit simplistic, as could end up with a race to the bottom with other airlines in same boat.

Yield per flight will always be improved, as long as loss leader fares aren't way below costs.

 

[Must...Fly!]

If an airline can't fill its seat, at or above costs, then it might have to sell some at a lost, but is better than those seats going empty. Bit simplistic, as could end up with a race to the bottom with other airlines in same boat.

Yield per flight will always be improved, as long as loss leader fares aren't way below costs.

Yet I am the one who doesn't understand........

Yield on its own has nothing to do with profit or cost.

Also to save anyone else from confusion, "yield per flight" is not a metric in the aviation world. Anyone seeking to educate themselves may refer to the following glossary of terms I linked earlier in the thread (and to the above member in response to a PM I received) which may assist in understanding the various metrics used in the industry. Airline Data Project

 

[mitchd]

Also to save anyone else from confusion, "yield per flight" is not a metric in the aviation world. Anyone seeking to educate themselves may refer to the following glossary of terms I linked earlier in the thread (and to the above member in response to a PM I received) which may assist in understanding the various metrics used in the industry. Airline Data Project

Thanks, that’s a great link. In just a few short definitions I can finally follow the above discussion lol

 

[Mattg]

I'm not sure how this works...

 

[doctau]

I'm not sure how this works...

View attachment 205835

I can’t say for sure (I can check when I get to work with GDS access) but that kind of thing normally happens when the “Getaway” is a sale Getaway, and the “Light” is actually one leg Light and one leg Getaway (so taking rules from the more restrictive Light) but the Light can only be combined with the regular non-sale Getaway so ends up more expensive.

I haven’t seen it with Virgin before, but have for North American basic economy fares.

 

[ozfflyer]

with Coronavirus/drought/recession now having a huge impact, VA needs to come out with something different, like ultralight fares, that include stuff all.

The best way to do this, I think, it to pick certain outbound dates & certain inbound dates & then say to consumers, we have say 1000 seats spread over the following 20 or so outbound dates (maybe stating that there are 50 seats on each date, as of 12.01am on such a date, for these flights in low season & same for return & making it very clear, that if dates suit in 1 direction only, then to get a return fare, it can be combined with any date.

Some travel agent, who must have had blocks of seats, did something along these lines few years back on one of those click frenzy nights & it apparently worked very well & they sold out with 48 hours. I actually called them the next day (think the click frenzy event started at 7pm) & they said they worked til midnight that night & from 6am next morning. The bookings in that case, were all done by phone/email, not online.

Can't remember how many seats they had for sale, but it was 200 I think & over Dec-Jan period.

Re vague sales by airlines,

Heard so many people say something like

1. got an email re sale

2. went looking & found none

3. won't waste my time in future when get another such email.

Another thing VA has no control over is agents making bookings, that don't go ahead, so the cheap seats disappear fast.

Also heard of other airlines, making bookings via agents, so cheap seats disappear fast.

Maybe, a very short ticketing deadline should be introduced like 5 mins, which is enough time to load credit card details.

Slightly off topic, but remember back in Compass Mark 1 days, when most bookings were done over the phone, that someone, probably acting for another airline, had something set up so the Compass 1800 number, was dialed continually, so consumers had trouble getting through.

 

[clam16]

I forgot about the light fares while booking on OTA and now stuck with no seat selection and lower SC. =( But then I wasn't willing to pay the premium on booking direct.

 

[stm1sydney]

So it worked for you as designed.

 

[clam16]

Worked budget wise, did not work out feature wise lol. The difference was about $300 light vs getaway. If I'm gonna spend the extra $300, I can just go on another trip!

 

[doctau]

I can’t say for sure (I can check when I get to work with GDS access) but that kind of thing normally happens when the “Getaway” is a sale Getaway, and the “Light” is actually one leg Light and one leg Getaway (so taking rules from the more restrictive Light) but the Light can only be combined with the regular non-sale Getaway so ends up more expensive.

I haven’t seen it with Virgin before, but have for North American basic economy fares.

I’ve checked and this is what is happening, the “light” is a light combined with a standard Getaway, and the rules for the sale getaway don’t allow combination with other fare families.

 

[ozfflyer]

QF dumping seats on new BNE/SFO route, from $870 return. FJ via Fiji $794 return.

Also BNE/LAX return being dumped as well.

QF nonstop $899

VA nonstop $822

FJ via Fiji $794

 

[Hindo]

I forgot about the light fares while booking on OTA and now stuck with no seat selection and lower SC. =( But then I wasn't willing to pay the premium on booking direct.

How do you book a non-light fare through an OTA? I did a dummy SYD-LAX search through Kayak and all results returned only the "light" option (you can tell as only 1 bag is included). Is there any way to choose a higher fare class without paying extra through VA's website?

 

[doctau]

How do you book a non-light fare through an OTA? I did a dummy SYD-LAX search through Kayak and all results returned only the "light" option (you can tell as only 1 bag is included). Is there any way to choose a higher fare class without paying extra through VA's website?

With many OTAs you can’t, they need to offer you a fare family up-sell, and a lot don’t do that for long-haul flight or meta-search traffic.

We’re actually debating at work right now about how many people would use it, so if it’s worth the development effort versus doing something else people would like.